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US National ID Card - Coming Soon

Are the terrorists winning? When al-Qaeda attacked the United States on September 11, 2001, they made it clear they hate America and want to terrorize us into changing America.

If they could, the terrorists would destroy the unique American way of life. But they can't. Only we can do that.

Tragically, too much of the legislation enacted by Congress in a knee-jerk reaction to 9/11 does al-Qaeda's job for them. The Patriot Act took the first, disastrous step toward fundamentally changing our way of life. Then came the homeland security bill, followed by the 9/11 intelligence reorganization bill. And now the Real ID Act of 2005 (H.R. 418) will be voted on Thursday, February 10th.

What's wrong with H.R. 418 -- a bill we are told will stem the flow of illegal aliens through our porous borders? For starters, it does NOTHING to stem the flow of illegal aliens.

Instead, H.R. 418 will:

1. Establish a national ID card.

2. Establish a federally-coordinated database of personal information
on American citizens with Canada and Mexico.

3. Use the new national ID to track American citizens when traveling outside the U.S. -- and within the U.S.

4. Re-define "terrorism" in broad new terms that could include members of firearms rights and anti-abortion groups or other such groups as determined by whoever is in power at the time.

5. Authorize the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security to unilaterally expand the information included in driver's licenses, including such biometric information as retina scans and DNA information -- and even radio frequency identification (RFID) tracking technology. Carry a driver�s license with RFID and governmental officials will know your whereabouts 24/7.

You mean like one of these?

I don't see what's the big deal with ID cards. We have them here and they're a pretty nice way of idenfitying people...

Great idea

The whole passport system needs to be updated anyways...
I hope that Canada starts to use this system too.

I don't see what so 'scary' about it.
Hell we have to get our picture taken for driver's licences every 4-5yrs so what's the big deal?

Re: Great idea

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r The whole passport system needs to be updated anyways... I hope that Canada starts to use this system too. I don't see what so 'scary' about it. Hell we have to get our picture taken for driver's licences every 4-5yrs so what's the big deal?

It's saddening to think about how naive people really are.

sure, its just an ID card in certain ways...but you 'supporters' fail to ask yourself -why-?

do we need two of them to live safely in this country or outside? is our passport increasingly falling behind the rest of the world in terms of security?

no...at least in my opinion.

basically its just 'conservatives' creating more beauracracy that spends money and does nothing...simple as that|

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka You mean like one of these?

But that license should read, "Tim Osman"

quote:

Originally posted by biznology sure, its just an ID card in certain ways...but you 'supporters' fail to ask yourself -why-? do we need two of them to live safely in this country or outside? is our passport increasingly falling behind the rest of the world in terms of security? no...at least in my opinion. basically its just 'conservatives' creating more beauracracy that spends money and does nothing...simple as that|

And you're only touching on a few points of consideration. There's so much more to it than that!!!

Of course, most won't even question whether or not a National ID card would lead to the Bush administration's further trampling of our Constitutional rights. http://www.gpoaccess.gov/constitution/html/amdt10.html

Re: Re: Great idea

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X It's saddening to think about how naive people really are.

You're failing to explain yourself other than being paranoid.

You're sounding just like all the other big brother conspiracy left-wing nutjobs out there so far...

If you have an explanation, EXPLAIN YOURSELF MAN!

Big deal we have national ID cards, it soooooo limits our freedom

Re: Re: Re: Great idea

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r You're failing to explain yourself other than being paranoid. You're sounding just like all the other big brother conspiracy left-wing nutjobs out there so far... If you have an explanation, EXPLAIN YOURSELF MAN!

Well, maybe you should go and study up on the ways of the former Soviet Union and their internal passport system.

You seem so vocal about everything that I post here, yet you also want me to hand feed you information that you should probably be researching on your own.

I'm personally not about to consent to the further destruction of my Constitutional rights by a co-opted government that intends to systematically destroy each and every one of them. We already have Social Security numbers which are being used for much greater than their originally intended purpose.

quote:

"It gives me a headache just thinking down to your level" - Trillian (from H2G2)

quote:

Originally posted by stren Big deal we have national ID cards, it soooooo limits our freedom

And you're about what, 15 years old? Try asking your grandparents if they were able to roam about Poland and Lithuania so easily.

I'm not getting one. I already have a driver's lisence and a school ID I don't need a flippin national ID card especially if they're putting RFIDs in em. screw that shit... are they going to come for my guns next?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Great idea

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X Well, maybe you should go and study up on the ways of the former Soviet Union and their internal passport system. You seem so vocal about everything that I post here, yet you also want me to hand feed you information that you should probably be researching on your own. I'm personally not about to consent to the further destruction of my Constitutional rights by a co-opted government that intends to systematically destroy each and every one of them. We already have Social Security numbers which are being used for much greater than their originally intended purpose.

In reality, what information don't they have already that could possibly worth worrying about?

The average illegal immigrant in this country is just minding his own business in this country, paying for taxes, etc. IMO. This bill doesn't really say much from what I hear, it says about tracking U.S. citizens, but how about the immigrants that are here legally (ie with a greencard or work permit or any type of visa)? In the end this probably wont make much of a difference since there are so many illegal immigrants it would be virtually impossible to deport them all, mainly because of costs. In that case, the U.S. is better off with all its immigrants that helped make this country rich in the first place.

I can see the problems with an ID card, but i also see the possibilities, you can save a lot of info there and make life a lot easier.

I dont know about the exact details for this, but i dont think it sounds that bad?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew I can see the problems with an ID card, but i also see the possibilities, you can save a lot of info there and make life a lot easier. I dont know about the exact details for this, but i dont think it sounds that bad?

Would you want to be forced to carry a national ID card when you travel in your own country that has a radio chip that lets the government know where you are?

I don't know - if they could make a national id card a national driver's license card I think it'd be acceptable.

As long as the government doesn't force it on people its not a violation of their constitutional rights.

Frankly I'd rather get a national id card then a state drivers license because I wouldn't have to take a test everytime I move to another state.

Its not like the US government doesn't have one massive database right now anyway that can piece together info on all the citizens. This step would just streamline I think interstate trade.

Ideally I'd be against it, but if its optional I think the economic benifits will defintely out way any privacy concerns. And the government won't be able to do much even with an optional national id system since there will always be people like Trance-X that won't use the system and keep the rest of us safe from governmen t by doing so.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Would you want to be forced to carry a national ID card when you travel in your own country that has a radio chip that lets the government know where you are?

well is that really what it will be like?

if that is the case i would be very much against it, doesnt sound that likely tho?

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus I don't know - if they could make a national id card a national driver's license card I think it'd be acceptable. As long as the government doesn't force it on people its not a violation of their constitutional rights. Frankly I'd rather get a national id card then a state drivers license because I wouldn't have to take a test everytime I move to another state. Its not like the US government doesn't have one massive database right now anyway that can piece together info on all the citizens. This step would just streamline I think interstate trade. Ideally I'd be against it, but if its optional I think the economic benifits will defintely out way any privacy concerns. And the government won't be able to do much even with an optional national id system since there will always be people like Trance-X that won't use the system and keep the rest of us safe from governmen t by doing so.

lol i like how you basically agree with him, but slip in the last part trying to make him look paranoid.

quote:

Originally posted by claudits The average illegal immigrant in this country is just minding his own business in this country, paying for taxes, etc. IMO. This bill doesn't really say much from what I hear, it says about tracking U.S. citizens, but how about the immigrants that are here legally (ie with a greencard or work permit or any type of visa)? In the end this probably wont make much of a difference since there are so many illegal immigrants it would be virtually impossible to deport them all, mainly because of costs. In that case, the U.S. is better off with all its immigrants that helped make this country rich in the first place.

Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the average illegal immigrant is probably paying no taxes at all(since he/she would have no SSN and aren't registered with the government, paying taxes would amount to nothing less than a mea culpa). I think that represents a big part of the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka Correct me if I'm mistaken, but the average illegal immigrant is probably paying no taxes at all(since he/she would have no SSN and aren't registered with the government, paying taxes would amount to nothing less than a mea culpa). I think that represents a big part of the problem.

not entirely true, if they buy stuff they are paying sales tax for whatever city/area they live and work in|

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew well is that really what it will be like? if that is the case i would be very much against it, doesnt sound that likely tho?

Probably not but it could easily go that way. People need to be desensitized slowly its not an overnight process.

quote:

Originally posted by biznology not entirely true, if they buy stuff they are paying sales tax for whatever city/area they live and work in|

A very good point, but I tought the poster meant that they were paying income taxes, social security, FICA, etc. What's a 7% sales tax when compared to the 30+% that most legal citizens pay?

quote:

Originally posted by Shakka A very good point, but I tought the poster meant that they were paying income taxes, social security, FICA, etc. What's a 7% sales tax when compared to the 30+% that most legal citizens pay?

In many states, like Florida, sales tax is the largest level of income. 7% may sound little, but seven percent from almost every transaction combined together is a whole lot.

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