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US airports had warnings of 9/11

declassify those damn reports!

quote:

US airports had warnings of 9/11 Aviation officials in the US had numerous indications that airlines might be hijacked in the run-up to the 11 September attacks, it has emerged. The Federal Aviation Administration received 52 intelligence reports on al-Qaeda, says the commission that investigated the 2001 attacks. The reports included five that mentioned hijackings and two that mentioned suicide operations. But the FAA said the information could not have helped prevent the attacks. Spokeswoman Laura Brown said: "We had no specific information about means or methods that would have enabled us to tailor any counter-measures." I'm just appalled that this was withheld... it contributes to the conspiracy theories Carol Ashley Mother of 9/11 victim The report by the 11 September Commission, parts of which were published last July, said the dozens of warnings came in the five months before the attacks took place. The document was made available by the National Archives on Thursday, after being reported by the New York Times. It said there was a "striking" false sense of security at the FAA. "Intelligence that indicated a real and growing threat leading up to 11 September did not stimulate significant increases in security procedures," the report said. It said airline congestion, delays and financial problems in the industry appeared to be more pressing concerns for FAA officials than the possibility of a terrorist attack. Declassification delay FAA spokeswoman Ms Brown said the agency did take action on the intelligence reports, passing them on to airlines and airports. She said the agency was tightening security at the time of the attacks, "spending $100m a year to deploy explosive detection equipment at the airports", and preparing improved screening measures. A member of the 11 September Commission said the release of the document had been delayed while it went through a declassification procedure. But Carol Ashley, whose daughter died in the attacks, said the report should have been released sooner. "I'm just appalled that this was withheld. That contributes to the idea that the government knew something and didn't act, it contributes to the conspiracy theories out there. "We need to rebut those with the actual facts, but we need the facts to do that," she said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4255755.stm

It's gonna get even worse. The bloggers, like Daily Kos, are reporting that the Austrailian press is already publishing some declassified documents that show on January 25, 2001 Richard Clarke sent a pretty clear memo to Condi that requested a meeting because of the serious dangers Al Qaeda was presenting. This info is in addition to the PDB mentioned in the 9/11 commission testimony.

LINK

NONE of this surprises me, only confirms it further

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 It's gonna get even worse. The bloggers, like Daily Kos, are reporting that the Austrailian press is already publishing some declassified documents that show on January 25, 2001 Richard Clarke sent a pretty clear memo to Condi that requested a meeting because of the serious dangers Al Qaeda was presenting. This info is in addition to the PDB mentioned in the 9/11 commission testimony. LINK

Crap, just started a new thread on this...

http://www.sfgate.com/today/0912_chron_mnreport.shtml

i wonder how many Al-Qeada reports the FAA has recieved since then/or in any given month?

debunking facts are just reported in the article provided alone, yet you guys still let it appeal to your emotions pre-concieved or not. you let it reach into your imaginations then assume you couldn't be more right in your assumptions.

for me, it's like watching people watch soap operas.

i will not reply to your flawed rebuttlals

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i wonder how many Al-Qeada reports the FAA has recieved since then/or in any given month? debunking facts are just reported in the article provided alone, yet you guys still let it appeal to your emotions pre-concieved or not. you let it reach into your imaginations then assume you couldn't be more right in your assumptions. for me, it's like watching people watch soap operas. i will not reply to your flawed rebuttlals

October 2, 2001

John Ashcroft U.S. Attorney General U.S. Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20530 Certified mail: 7000 1670 0012 2751 8650

Reference: Response to your request for information related to Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist activities



To Mr. Ashcroft:

As a former federal air safety inspector-investigator[1] for the Federal Aviation Administration and a confidant to many present and former federal agents, I have acquired a great amount of knowledge and evidence relating to the September 11 deadly hijackings and related matters.

For the purpose of this letter, reference is to the terrorist threat and how a culture within certain federal agencies aided and abetted and insured the success of the hijackers on September 11, 2001, and future terrorist attacks.

For credibility, I am a former federal inspector-investigator for the Federal Aviation Administration; a former airline pilot with significant piloting experience in the Middle East, carrying Muslim and Arab passengers to Mecca and Medina from various parts of the Middle East; years of contacts with federal agents who conveyed considerable information to me"including agents of the FBI, DEA, Customs, and CIA, including former heads of secret CIA airlines and CIA financial operations who had information relating to terrorists.

The success of the hijackers on September 11th, and many prior fatal hijackings, would not have occurred if the corruption that I documented did not exist.

These conditions still exist and will undoubtedly play a key role in future terrorist attacks and other adverse actions against the people of the United States.

This letter provides highlights of this misconduct and makes a record that you and your office have been informed of these matters.

In an attempt to reveal these matters to the public and to circumvent the history of cover-ups by Justice Department personnel, I authored several books seeking to inform the public of these matters, including the matters that insured the success of the September 11, 2001, hijackers.

These books include the third editions of Unfriendly Skies and Defrauding America and the first edition of Drugging America. The following information highlights several of these matters that I and my group of present and former federal agents discovered and documented.

History of Corruption In FAA That Insured the Success Of the Hijackers

While I was an FAA air safety inspector-investigator, holding federal air safety responsibilities for the most senior program at United Airlines, during a period of numerous airline crashes, I documented a pattern of misfeasance, malfeasance, nonfeasance, and corruption within the Federal Aviation Administration.

Among the areas of FAA misconduct were pressure and threats against federal air safety inspectors not to report or act upon major air safety and even criminal activities, despite the repeated occurrence of fatal airline crashes due to these problems; refusal to act upon reports requiring changes to prevent hijackings that I and other federal air safety inspectors made, and many other areas of major air safety violations for which the FAA had a legal duty to take corrective action.

Compounding this misconduct, inspectors making these reports were harassed and threatened, their official reports destroyed, and their lives and careers adversely affected. This is the deadly culture that resulted in many fatal airline crashes, including the prior airline crash into New York City, by United Airlines, that was the world,s worst air disaster at that time.

The cover-up of the corruption within the FAA made possible the continuation of the federal offenses and the associated fatalities. The September 11, 2001, tragedies with over 6,000 deaths were simply another consequence of the internal FAA problems and the cover-up of these problems by Justice Department personnel.

I documented these FAA offenses while I was an FAA inspector, and proved their relationship to several specific airline crashes, which included the earlier United Airlines crash into New York City. The hard-core corrupt and criminal misconduct within the FAA, going into the FAA administrator,s office, can be associated with years of specific airline crashes, and constitutes substantial evidence showing how it insured the success of the September 11, 2001, air tragedies.

Throughout this period of fraud-related air tragedies, Justice Department personnel repeatedly blocked efforts to expose these serious federal offenses, thereby aiding and abetting the FAA misconduct, which in turn insured the success of the hijacking terrorists.

The available evidence supports this relationship. And now, the same Justice Department is covering up for the wrongdoings that in this latest instance took the lives of 6,000 people!

Highlights Of FAA Corruption Making Possible Major Air Disasters

In my role as a federal air safety inspector, assisted by many years of experience as an airline captain, navy flight instructor, and navy patrol plane commander in World War II, I made numerous reports and the required corrective actions addressing air safety and criminal violations affecting air safety.

Many of these reports required prompt corrective actions for which the FAA had responsibility to act. In almost every case, the reports that I and other inspectors made were ignored, despite the pattern of resulting fatal airline crashes.

Nonfeasance Compounded By Tragedy-Related Criminal Misconduct

The reaction to these official reports included (1) warnings not to submit such reports as the office would look bad when airline accidents resulted from the problems; (2) felony destruction of the official reports which were often followed by resulting fatal airline crashes; (3) threats, harassment, and retaliatory actions against federal air safety inspectors when the officially required reports continued to be made.

One of my recommendations related to hijackings and how to prevent them. I had recommended installing heavier cockpit doors and removing cockpit door keys from the flight attendants, which would prevent many of the fatal hijackings that subsequently occurred, including the September 11, 2001, hijackings

If these simple measures had been adopted, as common sense dictated, and as FAA responsibility required, many fatal hijackings would have been prevented, including the 6,000 deaths on September 11, 2001, and the enormous financial and personal ramifications of the United States in a war mode would not have occurred.

Refusal to act on this obvious safety problem did not fall into the category of corruption as in many other air safety problems, but it was associated with the felonious pattern of destroying inspectors, reports, pressuring and threatening inspectors not to report safety problems, retaliating against inspectors for making such reports or taking required corrective actions.

This corrupt culture in the FAA subverted the legal and moral responsibilities of the United States government to act on safety problems and safety violations discovered by highly trained and highly experienced federal air safety inspectors. Compounding this corrupt culture among many FAA management personnel was the documented cover-up by personnel in the U.S. Department of Justice, within the NTSB, by members of Congress, and others.

Exercising Federal Remedies To Report Major Corruption In A Federal Agency

As a federal air safety inspector and investigator who discovered these major federal offenses and the tragic consequences as a part of my official duties, I exercised several remedies seeking to bring a halt to the corruption and related airline crashes.

If the widespread obstruction of justice and cover-up had not occurred, the September 11, 2001, tragedies would not have occurred. The evidence of these matters is found in government records, in judicial records, and communication with government and non-government checks and balances, none of whom want this information made available to the public.

The actions I took, which started initially in addressing the corruption blocking the federal government from meeting its air safety responsibilities, included the following:

I acted as an independent prosecutor, conducting a four-month-long FAA hearing during which I obtained testimony and considerable evidence showing this culture of malfeasance, misfeasance, nonfeasance, corruption, and during the hearing, perjury and subornation of perjury. Two fatal crashes occurred in my area of responsibilities during that hearing that were caused by the very same air safety problems and criminal activities that I documented. Transcripts and documentation is available to show this relationship.

I reported these federal offenses to the National Transportation Safety Board (Bureau of air safety in the CAB at that time), to the FBI, to several U.S. attorneys, and then to the Department of Justice in Washington. Possibly because of the gravity of the criminal activities and the direct relationship to many fatal airline crashes, the response was a cover-up and obstruction of justice.

This response made possible the continuation of the air safety and criminal violations, and as expected, a continuation of the resulting crashes and deaths. (These matters are detailed and documented in the third edition of Unfriendly Skies.)

Seeking to circumvent the obstruction of justice, I appeared before a federal grand jury in Denver. Although individual jurors admitted the gravity of what I was stating, the blockage by the U.S. attorney kept the jury from taking any action.

As a federal agent, I filed formal complaints with FBI director J. Edgar Hoover, and encountered a pattern of cover-ups and false statements.

I reported these matters to members of Congress who had a duty to act. I received numerous sympathetic letters, but all of them refused to act. This is called misprision of felonies, which had dire consequences for the public.

Refusing to be a part of the criminal activities in the FAA, I resigned from the FAA. As the air disasters continued to occur from the FAA culture, I exercised other federal remedies. I filed the first of several lawsuits[2] in Ninth Circuit federal courts seeking to report the criminal activities to a federal judge under the federal crime reporting statute[3] and under a citizen,s right[4] to seek a court order forcing federal officials to perform their legal duties and to halt their unlawful conduct. District and appellate judges admitted the gravity of the allegations made in the lawsuit, but after U.S. attorneys filed motions to block the lawsuits, they were dismissed. These dismissals were followed by even worse air disasters due to the same FAA culture.

Seeking to circumvent the massive cover-ups and obstruction of justice, I used my considerable assets[5] to make the public aware of this pattern of corruption by people in key government positions. I authored and published the first edition of Unfriendly Skies, (which is now in its third edition). I also started appearing as a guest and expert on hundreds of radio and television shows. These activities were funded by my real estate investments and threatened to expose people in key positions in the three branches of the federal government.

Discovering Other Areas Of Corruption In Government

As my books and radio and television appearances became known, other government agents provided me information and documentation on still other areas of corruption[6] in government that could be expected on the basis of the corruption that I discovered as a federal inspector.

The gravity of the additional information and documentation caused me to again exercise the responsibilities under the federal crime reporting statute (Title 18 U.S.C. � 4) to report these matters to federal judges, who had the mandatory responsibility to receive the information and evidence. Their reaction would eventually insure the success of the September 11, 2001, hijackers:

Federal judges repeatedly refused to receive the data and evidence that I and my group of other former and present federal agents sought to report. These federal offenses included the documented corruption in the FAA and by people in other key government positions. These corrupt and criminal activities and the standard obstruction of justice offenses are described in three books: Unfriendly Skies, Defrauding America, and Drugging America.

Federal judges issued unlawful and unconstitutional orders barring me, for the remainder of my life, from access to the district and appellate courts. These orders (1) blocked the reporting of these criminal activities, and (2) blocked me from defending against judicial acts that corruptly seized the $10 million in real estate that funded my exposure of the criminal and corrupt activities. (Further information about the actions taken to block my exposure of the criminal activities and the involvement of federal judges can be found in a pending federal lawsuit at the Internet site: www.defraudingamerica.com/lawsuit_reno.html.

When I discovered other criminal activities from government agents[7] and sought to report these matters, as required under the federal crime reporting statute, Justice Department prosecutors and federal judges charged me with criminal contempt of court (on the basis that I had been barred for the remainder of my life from federal court access). From 1986 to 1995, these two groups had me charged me with criminal contempt of court for attempting to report these criminal activities. This retaliation, for reporting matters that made the World Trade Center 1993 bombing and September 11, 2001, hijackings possible reflects the role of Justice Department personnel and federal judges in the corruption that made possible the death of 6,000 people on September 11, and made possible other crimes against the American people by persons acting under cover of government positions.

Justice Department Corruption Aided Funding Of Terrorist Cells

Justice Department misconduct aided and abetted various terrorist cells located in the New Jersey and New York areas which were later implicated in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and the September 11, 2001, hijackings.

Details of these activities, as provided to me by government agents, are found in the book I wrote, "Drugging America." The book describes how Justice Department personnel blocked federal agents from arresting people whose drug activities funded terrorist cells, some of which subsequently bombed the World Trade Center in 1993 and the cells who planned to place bombs on 11 U.S. airliners departing from Far East locations.

Evidence indicates that some of these same terrorist cells, protected by Justice Department personnel, were responsible for the September 11, 2001, hijackings.

Further aid to the hijackers was the corrupt culture in the FAA that had been covered-up by Justice Department personnel for decades, as proven by my letters and judicial records.

In addition to blocking the drug-related funding of the terrorists, Justice Department personnel falsely charged, prosecuted, and brought about the imprisonment of the head of a federal drug task force who was targeting the drug activities that funded the terrorist cells.

My attempt to report these activities under the federal crime reporting statute was blocked by federal judges and Justice Department personnel, who then retaliated against me for seeking to make these reports. (Details in my three books and on the web sites: www.defraudingamerica.com; www.unfriendlyskies.com; and www.druggingamerica.com.

FBI and CIA Personnel Making SAM Missiles Available to Afghan Terrorists

Another of the many areas of misconduct involving Justice Department personnel"which provided further aid to the terrorist groups"occurred in 1995. General Rashid Dostum, head of one of the groups constituting the Afghanistan Northern Alliance, who was fighting Osama bin Laden and fighting to keep the Taliban from taking control of Afghanistan, offered to provide the United States with several dozen surface-to-air missiles and possibly as many as 100. Negotiations arising out of this offer occurred in Los Angeles and involved CIA and FBI personnel, and a friend of mine who was at one time the titular head of a secret CIA financial operation based in Hawaii. It was also known that Afghan terrorists were bidding on these missiles, which could be expected to be used against U.S. airliners.

These contacts with a key fighting group in northern Afghanistan provided the United States an excellent opportunity to obtain their cooperation to fight the Afghan terrorists, including Osama bin Laden, and prevent the Taliban group from taking control of Afghanistan.

FBI and CIA personnel involved in the Los Angeles negotiations refused to accept the surface-to-air missiles and refused to cooperate with General Dostum. This CIA and FBI conduct caused my CIA source great concern for subsequent missile attacks upon U.S. airliners from surface to air missiles that would be obtained by Afghan terrorists, including the Osama bin Laden al Quida group. My source then provided me with information and documentation concerning the negotiations, which I then used as the basis for a three-page letter sent to every member of the House and Senate intelligence committees. In this October 20, 1995, letter I urged the recipients to immediately contact me and my CIA source to prevent the surface to air missiles getting into the hands of the Afghan terrorists. That letter was sent about six months before the downing of TWA Flight 800. Not a single recipient responded, despite my background as a federal agent and my source,s CIA background and part of the negotiations occurring in Los Angeles.

If that cooperation with General Dostum had not been refused, it is very possible that coordinated actions could have been taken against Osama bin Laden,s al Qaida group and the Taliban. It is also probable that missile attacks upon U.S. airliners by Afghan and other terrorist groups that have yet to occur could have been prevented. It is also probable that a missile brought down TWA Flight 800, despite the standard cover-up by the NTSB political board members and the Justice Department and CIA.

Federal Leaders Covering Up For the Terrorists Who Planted the Bomb On Pan Am Flight 103

Another terrorist tragedy involving misconduct and cover-up. As detailed in the third edition of Defrauding America, Justice Department personnel covered up and protected the Syria-based terrorists who placed the bomb on board Pan Am Flight 103. This cover-up was motivated by two factors: (1) Syria,s cooperation was needed for the Gulf War; (2) the logistics for placing the bomb on Pan Am Flight 103 was facilitated by the CIA-DEA drug smuggling operation conducted out of the DEA office in Nicosia, using Pan Am aircraft departing Frankfurt for the United States (Detroit).

Much of the details and support for these matters are found in (1) FAA records, primarily of the hearing held in Denver where I acted as an independent prosecutor; (2) federal lawsuits filed in U.S. district courts; (3) letters sent to various divisions of the Department of Justice (including the July 30, 1996, letter sent to the FBI which is on the Internet site at: http://www.defraudingamerica.com. That letter addresses one of many examples of FBI cover-ups that I first encountered as a federal air safety inspector, the cover-ups of which made possible subsequent air disasters. That letter relates to the acquisition of surface-to-air missiles by Afghan and other terrorist groups, the refusal to cooperate with the Afghan group fighting Osama bin Laden,s terrorist group, fighting the Taliban group, and the FBI,s threat against me, warning me to remain quiet about the information I had.

What is stated in this letter is only a small part of the documented corruption involving people in key government positions whose conduct had inflicted, or permitted to be inflicted, great harm upon Americans.

Withholding this information from the public keeps the same culture, the same people, the same adversaries, in the decision-making process as the United States seeks to prevent more terrorist activities!

Withholding this information protects those whose corrupt acts played a key role in the 6,000 recent deaths and the incalculable financial and other harm inflicted upon the United States.

The people perpetrating these acts that insured the success of the hijackers are also adversaries to America and its people. Protecting them subverts the process necessary by America to defend against the terrorist threat.

Based upon the 40 years of documented Justice Department misconduct, the same cover-up can be expected to continue, which will insure further harm to the American people.

Sincerely,
Rodney Stich

Rodney Stich's credentials:
Member: Association Former Intelligence Officers (AFIO) Association of National Security Alumni (ANSA) International Society of Air Safety Investigators (ISASI) Lawyers Pilots Bar Association (IPBA) Former FAA Air Safety Investigator Former Airline Captain Former Navy pilot and flight instructor

------------------------------------------------------------------


[1] Former federal air safety inspector who held federal air safety responsibilities for the most senior program at United Airlines; a former airline pilot with considerable international experience, including flying in the Middle East, flying Moslem pilgrims to Mecca, living with Arab and Moslem personnel; former Navy patrol plane commander in World War II, confidant to many insiders including former agents of the FBI, DEA, Customs, CIA, including former heads of secret CIA airlines and secret CIA financial operations, and author of several books, including three editions of Unfriendly Skies and Defrauding America, and one edition of Drugging America (with expanded editions pending).

[2] Stich v. United States, et al., 554 F.2d 1070 (9th Cir.) (tab-le), cert. denied, 434 U.S. 920 (1977)(addressed hard-core air safety misconduct, violations of federal air safety laws, threats against government inspectors not to report safety violations and misconduct); Stich v. National Transportation Safety Board, 685 F.2d 446 (9th Cir.)(table), cert. denied, 459 U.S. 861 (1982))(addressed repeated criminal falsification of official airline accident reports, omitting highly sensitive air safety misconduct, making possible repeated crashes from the same sequestered problems); Amicus curiae brief filed on July 17, 1975, in the Paris DC-10 multi-district litigation, Flanagan v. McDonnell Douglas Corporation and United States of America, Civil Action 74-808-PH, MDL 172, Central District California.)(addressing the long standing FAA misconduct, of which the cover-up of the DC-10 cargo door problem was one of repeated instances of tragedy related misconduct); U.S. v. Department of Justice, District of Columbia, Nos. 86-2523, 87-2214, and other actions filed by Stich seeking to expose and correct the powerful and covert air disaster misconduct.

[3] Title 18 USC � 4. Misprision of felony. Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

[4] Title 28 U.S.C. � 1361. Action to compel an officer of the United States to perform his duty. The district courts shall have original jurisdiction of any action in the nature of mandamus to compel an officer or employee of the United States or any agency thereof to perform a duty owed to the plaintiff.

[5] At that time my real estate holdings exceeded $10 million in value, most of which was equity.

[6] Years of drug smuggling into the United States by the CIA (and during the 1980s, Oliver North and the National Security Council, U.S. military), pattern of corruption in Ninth Circuit bankruptcy courts, and a series of other corrupt activities implicating people in key federal positions, as described in Defrauding America, Drugging America, and Unfriendly Skies.

[7] These federal agents were from the FBI, DEA, Customs, CIA, including former heads of secret CIA airlines and secret CIA financial operations.

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X (Further information about the actions taken to block my exposure of the criminal activities and the involvement of federal judges can be found in a pending federal lawsuit at the Internet site: www.defraudingamerica.com/lawsuit_reno.html.

That site is down.

Try this instead:


http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2002/04/121418_comment.php

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo yet you guys still let it appeal to your emotions pre-concieved or not. you let it reach into your imaginations then assume you couldn't be more right in your assumptions.

that's pretty funny coming from a bush supporter considering all the evidence out there reflecting the fact that he's a lying scumbag and a corrupt a-hole

quote:

i will not reply to your flawed rebuttlals

that's ok. you won't be missed.

Interesting stuff Trancer-X. I wonder how long its going to take for the public to know what really happened, if that's ever going to happen.

i'm still watching. mildly entertained.

Well let's see, the right blames Clinton and makes Richard Clarke out to be a Democrat looking for a position in the Kerry cabinet and out to hype his book, meanwhile this 9/11 Commission FAA information and Clarke's memo to Condi Rice are classified for "security reasons" but are no longer dangerous information now that the election is over. Rice clearly lied several times on this issue, nevermind her comments about Iraq. Maybe there are constant warnings about Al Qaeda now as well and some turn out not to be credible, but there were clearly more warning signs that the government knew about before 9/11 than we were told.

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/p...ml?itemNo=77744

http://www.findarticles.com/p/artic..._28/ai_78763669

DARN YOU BILL CLINTON! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Interesting stuff Trancer-X. I wonder how long its going to take for the public to know what really happened, if that's ever going to happen.

Why don't you enlighten us with what REALLY happened. I mean if you REALLY know what happened maybe you should contact the proper authoroties or a lawyer. With the information you posses you surely should take action ASAP!

quote:

Originally posted by tiesto14 Why don't you enlighten us with what REALLY happened. I mean if you REALLY know what happened maybe you should contact the proper authoroties or a lawyer. With the information you posses you surely should take action ASAP!

Well, the media is usually full of shit (espcially mainstream america media) and so are politicians. And its pretty f*cking obvious they're lying to us and are suppressing the facts. So until they declasssify those damn files, our heavily indoctrinated public will refuse to even consider anything other than what the Gov/Media says. It hard to believe they didn't know about the attacks before hand with all the info that is out now and obviously didn't to much to prevent it. That much is clear. If there's anything shadier than that, I don't know.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 DARN YOU BILL CLINTON! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT

Intresting document. El Quaida's goals are also specifically stated there. "Oh no, they hate us and our freedom."

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Well, the media is usually full of shit (espcially mainstream america media) and so are politicians. And its pretty f*cking obvious they're lying to us and are suppressing the facts. So until they declasssify those damn files, our heavily indoctrinated public will refuse to even consider anything other than what the Gov/Media says. It hard to believe they didn't know about the attacks before hand with all the info that is out now and obviously didn't to much to prevent it. That much is clear. If there's anything shadier than that, I don't know.

Same bullshit used by the religous right to "prove" the existence of God or the neocon "proof" for wmd's due to the lack of proof that there aren't wmds. Arguing a negative doesn't prove a god damn thing. While we're on the topic of examining 9/11 conspiracy theories, popular mechanics actually took the time to scientifically research the arguments posed by a number of internet websites:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...html?page=1&c=y

Big surprise that sites such as "whatreallyhappened" selectively suppressed data and the context within which the data was provided in order to promote their agenda.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Same bullshit used by the religous right to "prove" the existence of God or the neocon "proof" for wmd's due to the lack of proof that there aren't wmds. Arguing a negative doesn't prove a god damn thing. While we're on the topic of examining 9/11 conspiracy theories, popular mechanics actually took the time to scientifically research the arguments posed by a number of internet websites: http://www.popularmechanics.com/sci...html?page=1&c=y Big surprise that sites such as "whatreallyhappened" selectively suppressed data and the context within which the data was provided in order to promote their agenda.

I checked out that link. I didnt even remotely suggest anything like that. All I said was there's enough evidence that indicates they knew about the attacks well in advance and didn't really do much about it.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I checked out that link. I didnt even remotely suggest anything like that. All I said was there's enough evidence that indicates they knew about the attacks well in advance and didn't really do much about it.

Oh, and what comprehensive evidence establishes for a fact, knowledge of and willing inaction as opposed to simple incompetance and derilection?

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Oh, and what comprehensive evidence establishes for a fact, knowledge of and willing inaction as opposed to simple incompetance and derilection?

I can't be bothered to pull up and post tons of material. You probably have already seen atleast some of it and totally disregarded it.
"Close your eyes and go back to sleep America, your Goverment has figured out how it all happened. Go back to sleep America. You are free to do as we tell you. You are free to do as we tell you. You are free to do as we tell you." (or something like that) -Bill Hicks

"It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination."

- Douglas Adams

See, I can argue with quotes too.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider See, I can argue with quotes too.

the only problem is that your's doesn't apply in this case and is quite irrelevant

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z the only problem is that your's doesn't apply in this case and is quite irrelevant

Well someone didn't get it

news like this is a waste of time.

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