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Tax deduction for transit

Finally, a good idea!.....

Tax deduction for transit? Maybe
Ontario considers Conservative bill to give tax credit for public transit fares


CANADIAN PRESS

The Ontario legislature gave approval in principle today to a private member's bill that would give commuters a tax deduction for public transit fares, with members of all three parties calling it a good idea.

"I ask the members of the House to look at this as a non-partisan initiative to make public transit affordable for their constituents," said Conservative John O'Toole as he kicked off second reading debate on his legislation.

"This bill here is an opportunity for the government to ease the tax burden in Ontario, while addressing the issues of gridlock and quality of life."

O'Toole wants to amend the province's Income Tax Act to give public transit riders a 50-per-cent deduction for the cost of bus, train and subway fares.

He said getting more people to use public transit would mean fewer cars and trucks on the roads, resulting in better air quality, fewer pollution-related health problems, and shorter commute times for everyone.

"It's not a bad way of dealing with the end-users so that they're not put in a position where it becomes very expensive to get to work," New Democrat Gilles Bisson told the legislature.

"I think we need to find ways of being innovative."

"We do need to improve public transit, and I think an initiative like this points in that direction," said Liberal Jennifer Mossop.

"It's a good idea."

Liberal Jean-Marc Lalonde was the only one to speak against the idea today, saying the bill would benefit only big-city commuters because it covers only public transit systems owned by the province, a municipality or a transit commission.

Lalonde said the tax credit wouldn't help the many rural communities in Ontario that are served by private bus companies.

"This wouldn't be fair for those people," he told the legislature.

Private member's bills rarely become law, but O'Toole said he was encouraged by the support his legislation received during second reading debate.

"I was very, very impressed that there was more or less unanimous support for the bill," he said.

O'Toole said it costs him about $100 a week to commute from his home in Oshawa, east of Toronto, to his downtown office at the legislature, and he believes many more people would leave their cars at home if they had a better financial incentive to take public transit.

"The bottom line is that is sounds like a good idea," said Danna O'Brien, spokeswoman for Transportation Minister Harinder Takhar.

"But you've got to weigh the costs and the benefits."

O'Brien said Ontario was already working with the federal government to secure a tax exemption for employer-provided transit passes, something the Liberals promised in the 2003 election campaign.

O'Toole's bill will be sent to the legislature's finance committee, where he hopes it will spur the Liberals to adopt it as their own legislation, and "allow for the government to initiate a whole new era of funding public transit."

Ive got a better idea. LOWER THE FARES!!

Saves all the paperwork and added expense to government accountants. Why must the government always make things more difficult than they should be?

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Ive got a better idea. LOWER THE FARES!! Saves all the paperwork and added expense to government accountants. Why must the government always make things more difficult than they should be?

You're missing the far more obvious peculiarity of a tax-paid service being tax-deductible. I can't think of any way to get that to make sense. Tax-run businesses are the LEAST logical to let people write off.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Ive got a better idea. LOWER THE FARES!! Saves all the paperwork and added expense to government accountants. Why must the government always make things more difficult than they should be?

no kidding...why implement tax breaks when you can just lower the freakin' fares in the first place?!?

unless someone can show otherwise, I think it just sounds good on paper from a political perspective...every gov't does it...they also know that not everyone will take advantage of the tax break (eg. forget to claim it come tax time).

just take those "tax breaks" and add that to the gov't funding the TTC receives!

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT no kidding...why implement tax breaks when you can just lower the freakin' fares in the first place?!? unless someone can show otherwise, I think it just sounds good on paper from a political perspective...every gov't does it...they also know that not everyone will take advantage of the tax break (eg. forget to claim it come tax time). just take those "tax breaks" and add that to the gov't funding the TTC receives!

It makes sense to me, I spend at least $1000 of my after tax money on TTC every year�if I can get a $500 tax credit on that Im happy..Do you think TTC is going to cut the fares in half...Never! By doing this, The rider ship will increase, the guv funding will decrease, people will have to get monthly passes cuz you will not get receipts for buying tokens�.

quote:

Originally posted by walkindude ....people will have to get monthly passes cuz you will not get receipts for buying tokens�.

That would suck for those who rely on transit but don't take it every other day. They're offered a tax break, but no way to claim it.

I guess the idea is, keep the fares to pay for the TTC, then the tax breaks come from some other cash pot.

...mmm, pot.......

so what exactly is this?

quote:

Originally posted by walkindude It makes sense to me, I spend at least $1000 of my after tax money on TTC every year�if I can get a $500 tax credit on that Im happy..

So because it makes you happy, it therefore makes sense from a policy perspective? That's a shameful way to think. How about we institute a policy wherein I get a government check for $500,000 a year - that would make me happy, so it makes sense to me.

quote:

By doing this, The rider ship will increase, the guv funding will decrease, people will have to get monthly passes cuz you will not get receipts for buying tokens�.

Care to explain/support this assertion?

if there's no chance that fares will be lowered, then might as well give us the tax break

Its REALLY is the better way



Don't worry though...nobody got hurt

The new ORION VII....$750,000 each


OR



The old GM style bus that is WAY cheaper to maintain, way more reliable & can go forever BUT has NO A/C,not handycap friendly and looks "old"...

If the Old GM meant lower fares would you go for that OR pay what you are now to get the newest buses with all the "toys" that come with it???

the old ghettos are never late
the handi bus takes its sweet ass mo fo time

quote:

Originally posted by RobbyG. The new ORION VII....$750,000 each OR The old GM style bus that is WAY cheaper to maintain, way more reliable & can go forever BUT has NO A/C,not handycap friendly and looks "old"... If the Old GM meant lower fares would you go for that OR pay what you are now to get the newest buses with all the "toys" that come with it???

And therein lies the problem with Canadian thinking. We want cheap cheap cheap but cadillac service. Id settle for a freakin school bus if it got me where i wanted to go, when i wanted to go there at a cheap rate.

I agree, although the AC is really nice in the summer when it's blistering hot, and the bus is packed!

IMHO I'm beginning to think maybe letting ttc become completely private wud be the best route to take.

It seemed to work for England.

Oh i dunno...all I know is that I hate the ttc. Service is crap, there is no smile (just atatouche) and I don't appreciate having to be forced to pay a higher fare than in Montreal or anywhere else.

As for the tax rebate, that's just rediculous. Just more of a reason to raise taxes later on. TTC will never bring down their fares.

TTC = Takes The Cash

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut So because it makes you happy, it therefore makes sense from a policy perspective? That's a shameful way to think. How about we institute a policy wherein I get a government check for $500,000 a year - that would make me happy, so it makes sense to me. Care to explain/support this assertion?

Its not that it makes me happy... but I think we all realise that bitching about it will not help it either... be realistic, the fares are not going to go down! What does the TTC complain about all the time..lack or reduction of ridership? dont forget that beside providing transportation they are also interested in running a self sufficient business. This is a good incentive to reduce traffic on the road and increase the number of people taking public transport. They are increasing the token price and not increasing the monthly pass because they know that by doing that their ridership will not go down from their fixed income clients. But by providing a tax break to these people will help increase their monthly pass riders.

I am only assuming that their will be no receipts for token buyers, there might be, they might bring out a new system to actually implement that.

As for being shameful, dude there are families which spend $3000 of their hard earned money for transportation every year for themselves and their kids, why should'nt they get a break. I have a car but I still use the TTC because I belive in public transport and the only way to make it better is for more people to use it and give them an incentive to use.

seems like a good idea...

or just toll the roads in the downtown core...

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGeek seems like a good idea... or just toll the roads in the downtown core...

You dont drive or live beyond the core, do you?

quote:

Originally posted by walkindude Its not that it makes me happy... but I think we all realise that bitching about it will not help it either... be realistic, the fares are not going to go down! What does the TTC complain about all the time..lack or reduction of ridership? dont forget that beside providing transportation they are also interested in running a self sufficient business. This is a good incentive to reduce traffic on the road and increase the number of people taking public transport. They are increasing the token price and not increasing the monthly pass because they know that by doing that their ridership will not go down from their fixed income clients. But by providing a tax break to these people will help increase their monthly pass riders. I am only assuming that their will be no receipts for token buyers, there might be, they might bring out a new system to actually implement that.

This is all speculation! Do you really honestly think that in 5 years from now there's going to be any increase in ridership (excluding the obvious increase that comes from greedy immigration policies)?

You're going to find out that you're wrong, because the vast majority of people who ride the TTC do not buy passes. In order for a pass to be cost-effective, you have to ride about 5 times a day. I don't even get into my car 5 times on most days. Whatever gain they see in metropass sales is going to be more than offset by the relatively astronomical loss from token/ticket sales due to higher rates.

quote:

As for being shameful, dude there are families which spend $3000 of their hard earned money for transportation every year for themselves and their kids, why should'nt they get a break.

There are families which spend $20,000 of their hard-earned money to pay for other people's sprained ankles and welfare cheques - why shouldn't THEY get a break?

quote:

I have a car but I still use the TTC because I belive in public transport and the only way to make it better is for more people to use it and give them an incentive to use.

No, the way to make it better is to make it actually go somewhere. Look at our TTC map next to a map of New York or Montreal - that's how we can make it better.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No, the way to make it better is to make it actually go somewhere. Look at our TTC map next to a map of New York or Montreal - that's how we can make it better.

i second that!

But our transit system rules compared to moose jaw and lexington!!

Come on u spoiled brats!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No, the way to make it better is to make it actually go somewhere. Look at our TTC map next to a map of New York or Montreal - that's how we can make it better.

Yep...totally agree here...and we STILL have no subway to the Pearson Airport.If we want Toronto to be a "world class" city then we have WAY too much work ahead of us.

The only place you can get to on a bus is Major intersections within Toronto.

I was carless for 5 years while working costruction...the only place the bus or subway took me is ..downtown or somwhere close by.. Missisauga ?? No way in hell ..I took a ttc bus ,i took a missisauga bus ...still didnt get me close to there ..(got to walk for 10 minutes) to get to the site.And thats at a rushhour 7am .On the way back at 3;15 pm no buses .No buses untill 5 pm .WTF is that??? Bulshit transit system we got..And now its going up?? Service worse ,fares higher.Way to go Toronto

TTC latest purchase

This is the new hybrid bus TTC will buy in the future...the ENTIRE fleet will look like this...What's old is new again










Actually...its a 1946 Ford Transit 3 bus...with a V8 gasoline engine

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut This is all speculation! Do you really honestly think that in 5 years from now there's going to be any increase in ridership (excluding the obvious increase that comes from greedy immigration policies)? You're going to find out that you're wrong, because the vast majority of people who ride the TTC do not buy passes. In order for a pass to be cost-effective, you have to ride about 5 times a day. I don't even get into my car 5 times on most days. Whatever gain they see in metropass sales is going to be more than offset by the relatively astronomical loss from token/ticket sales due to higher rates. There are families which spend $20,000 of their hard-earned money to pay for other people's sprained ankles and welfare cheques - why shouldn't THEY get a break? No, the way to make it better is to make it actually go somewhere. Look at our TTC map next to a map of New York or Montreal - that's how we can make it better.

Yes there will be an increase in ridership if you give incentive for people to take it. Your wrong about having to take the TTC 5 times a day for the pass to be worth it...guy, when was the last time you took the TTC? I take it twice a day at least 5 times a week thats 19 bucks times 4 weeks, thats almost $80 a month thats $960 a year. Do the math now. I still dont buy a pass cuz its cheaper for me to buy tokens at the moment. Now if someone tells me, take the monthly pass for $93/month thats $1116 a year and you get a tax break of 50% (suggested as of now). I will do it, doesnt take a genius to figure that one out....

You guys all whine about how the TTC sucks, guys, we are no way close to the size in population of NY and London, why would you compare yourself to them. Do you have any idea what their transportation budget is every year? neither do I, but you know its 10 times ours because they have to support their population and their transit system accordingly...

As for the medical cost for $20,000 to pay for other people, thats another conversation, dont like it, go South! We all make money, some of us more than others, and we have to help others who cant afford it because they have the same colour of blood that you and I have but they are less fortunate than I and if I can help the system in helping these people then my money is going to a good cause. But I agree on the fact that our money should be spent on the right people and the right causes.
We should leave it at that or start another thread on that....

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