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I we thought Bush had something to say....

Oh the irony....

quote:

Religion "From a religious point of view, if God had thought homosexuality is a sin, he would not have created gay people." -- Howard Dean "After hearing Dr Dean's observation, beginning with 'If you know much about the Bible - which I do', a reporter asked about his favourite New Testament book. Dr Dean named Job, adding, 'But I don't like the way it ends... in some of the books of the New Testament; the ending of the Book of Job is different... There's one book where there's a more optimistic ending, which we believe was tacked on later'. The candidate returned an hour later to confess error: Job was in the Old Testament, not the New. Beyond that slip, his recollection of 'one book where there's a more optimistic ending' is muddled; the Book of Job in the Old Testament has an upbeat ending, with God doubling Job's former wealth and giving him new children for having sustained his piety through all his trials." -- William Safire describes Howard Dean's difficulties with Job. "Dean himself moved from Episcopalian to Congregationalist "because I had a big fight with a local Episcopal church about 25 years ago over the bike path." He does not hesitate to reveal this information or to declare that he seldom goes to church." -- Robert Novak "My view of Christianity . is that the hallmark of being a Christian is to reach out to people who have been left behind. So I think there was a religious aspect to my decision to support civil unions." -- Howard Dean Republicans "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for..." -- Howard Dean "I think a library trustee is pretty important," Dean said, during "an administration that likes book burning more than reading books." -- Howard Dean as quoted by USA Today "The truth is the President of the United States used the same device that Slobodan Milosevic used in Serbia. When you appeal to homophobia, when you appeal to sexism, when you appeal to racism, that is extraordinarily damaging to the country." -- Howard Dean Misc "I don�t know. There are many theories about (9/11). The most interesting theory that I�ve heard so far�which is nothing more than a theory, it can�t be proved�is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis. Now who knows what the real situation is? But the trouble is, by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kind of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not, and eventually, they get repeated as fact. So I think the president is taking a great risk by suppressing the key information that needs to go to the Kean Commission." -- Howard Dean "I told Steve McMahon, the media guy for Dean, who was on 'Crossfire': You have one of the three most influential presidential campaigns of my lifetime. That's the good news. The bad news is the other two are McGovern and Goldwater." -- James Carville "For me as a political figure, it was in many ways the most important event in my political life. There aren�t many people who get to do what I did." -- Howard Dean on Vermont's Civil Unions Law "Not only are we going to New Hampshire ... we're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York! And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. to take back the White House, Yeeeeeaaaaaargh!" -- Howard Dean in the Iowa concession speech that proved to be the final nail in his campaign's coffin "We have got to stop having the campaigns run in this country based on abortion, guns, God and gays..." -- Howard Dean Race "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks." -- Howard Dean "I believe that the flag of the Confederate States of America is a painful symbol and reminder of racial injustice and slavery which (Abraham) Lincoln denounced from here over 150 years ago." -- Howard Dean "We're going to tell all those white boys who run the Republican Party to stay out of our bedrooms." -- Howard Dean forgets what color he is. "You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here." -- Howard Dean "Dealing with race is about educating white folks..." -- Howard Dean The War On Terrorism "It's a victory for the Iraqi people ... but it doesn't have any effect on whether we should or shouldn't have had a war. ...I think in general the ends do not justify the means." -- Howard Dean after we blew away Uday & Qusay Hussein "We've gotten rid of (Saddam Hussein), and I suppose that's a good thing" -- Howard Dean, April 9, 2003 "We don't know that yet. We don't know that yet, Wolf. We still have a country whose city is mostly without electricity. We have tumultuous occasions in the south where there is no clear governance. We have a major city without clear governance." -- Howard Dean's reply when he was asked if he Iraq was better off without Saddam, April 23, 2003 "...The capture of Saddam has not made America safer." -- Howard Dean "I've resisted pronouncing a sentence before guilt is found. I will have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials." -- Howard Dean on Bin Laden "(9/11 & the aftermath will) require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street." -- Howard Dean after 9/11

Some Examples of Paul Martin�s Verbal Confusion:

Canada Invading Norway?: During a speech at CFB Gagetown, Martin glowing referred to the efforts of Canadian, British and American soldiers during the D-Day landings in �Norway�.

Hundreds of Millions of Canadians: He also appeared to forget his point on a few occasions and made minor slips like saying Canada's coasts are separated by "hundreds of millions of people." (Globe and Mail, May 29, 2004).

And He Says He�s a Big Hockey Fan?: When meeting the Calgary Flames, Martin seemed confused by the results so far in the Cup final -- he apparently thought Calgary had won both games against the Tampa Bay Lightning, when the series was tied 1-1, telling the Flames, "Two games away, that's pretty good." (Calgary Herald, May 29, 2004).

Martin Says Canada Not So Great: At an Edmonton meeting with about 200 pumped-up Liberals, he exclaimed that Canada is a country "greater than no other," which isn't quite what he meant. (Ottawa Citizen, May 29, 2004)

Martin Talking to Deceased?: Further signs that PM Paul Martin is tiring: At a press event at the G8 summit in Sea Island, Georgia, Mr. Martin was asked yesterday why he wouldn't attend the funeral for president Ronald Reagan. The prime minister told reporters that, "I expressed my regrets to President Reagan." (Ottawa Citizen, June 9, 2004).

When is the Election: Martin again got confused on the election date in Thunder Bay on June 21st, saying: "that's why we're going to win on the 28th of October."

(http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...alDecision2004/)

A Publicity Stunt: As Mr. Martin trumpeted his call for a federal-provincial first ministers conference in public, in front of TV cameras, a skeptical reporter asked: "Is this anything more than a publicity stunt?" "It certainly is not," he replied. We're pretty sure that's not what he meant. (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...alDecision2004/)

Who is Sean?: In St. Stephen, New Brunwick, Martin declared that he was happy to be in the riding with his good friend, Sean. Problem is, no one knew who Sean was. The local candidate is Jim Dunlop. (Edmonton Sun, June 27, 2004).

Who is Joe?: PAUL MARTIN must have had Joe Clark on the brain. Martin got Clark mixed up with Conservative Leader Stephen Harper during a rally in Halifax yesterday. "When I think of Joe, when I think of Stephen Harper, I think, you know, of that little elaborate cartoon of the guy with the cloud over his head?" (Toronto Sun, June 28, 2004).

Translation Required: Martin forgot that Russian media and hosts would require translation on his visit to Moscow: "Oh, the interpreters. I forgot," a flustered Martin replied. "We also discussed the need for interpretation the odd time." (Toronto Star, October 13, 2004).

What country am I in?: Minutes later, he told Russian President Vladimir Putin of the need for a joint Canada-U.S. business council to improve economic ties between the two countries. He quickly corrected himself, saying a Canada-Russia business council was needed. (Toronto Star, October 13, 2004).

Minority or Majority: "(Lapierre) is very confident and I'm very confident that we will have a min ... um, majority government," Martin replied, quickly correcting his slip of the tongue. (Leader-Post, May 26, 2004).

Fight Against Tourists: In a toast to U.S. President George W. Bush during his visit to Ottawa, Martin said the pair ``spoke of our dedication to taking the fight to tourists _ terrorists _ around the world.'' (CP Wire, December 3, 2004)..

Afghani-steen: During his speech at Halifax introducing the President, Martin mentioned the Canadian role in �Afghani-steen� (CBC Newsworld, December 1, 2004).

Name all 13 Territories: In the heat of his argument, Martin insisted that same-sex marriage is already legal "in six provinces and 13 territories." It's legal in one of Canada's three territories. (Winnipeg Sun, December 19, 2004)

Martin Promotes Hong Kong Investment�in the United States: During his toast to Hong Kong leaders, Martin mixed up his words, apparently unaware he had suggested that investors interested in big markets try going to the U.S. first. (Toronto Star, January 24, 2005)

Imaginary Opposition: Martin claimed that he even sat next to an "opposition member" of the People's Congress during an official dinner in China. (Toronto Star, January 21, 2005). However, China has no opposition.

No Immigrants in US or Great Britain?: Responding to a question about media commentary on the Sgro affair in Ireland, Great Britain and the United States, Martin said that those countries don�t support immigration: �What the Minister of Immigration, is doing is making sure that this is a country that is open to immigrants, unlike many of the countries cited in the hon. member's question.� (Hansard, December 7, 2004).

Syria �keeping peace� in Lebanon: "It's clear that if the Syrians are in Lebanon it's because they must keep the peace," Martin told reporters before marching away. (Winnipeg Sun, February 18, 2005)

Syria out of Syria?: "I said in French and I said in English that the Syrians should withdraw from Syria. I have now said it three times. How many more times need I say it?" Martin said to opposition howls. (Toronto Star, February 18, 2005)

quote:

"...The capture of Saddam has not made America safer." -- Howard Dean

Still not safe in Baghdad:

quote:

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Feb. 18 - Five suicide bombers, some disguised in the black robes of religious pilgrims, exploded their bombs in crowds of worshipers and at a police checkpoint in the Baghdad area on Friday, killing or maiming dozens of people on the eve of the Shiite holy day of Ashura.

And we are certainly not safer here, according to the administration:

quote:

WASHINGTON -- Speaking with one voice, President Bush's top intelligence and military officials said Wednesday that terrorists are regrouping for possible new strikes against the United States. They said the best defense was for Congress to approve the president's military and anti-terror budget. But House Majority Leader Tom DeLay and Rep. Jerry Lewis (R-Calif.), chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, said lawmakers were questioning billions in foreign aid and State Department spending Bush requested in an emergency bill this week. Rumsfeld predicts attacks Offering few specifics on terror threats, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld told a House hearing that the government could reasonably predict attacks would come from terrorism, weapons of mass destruction and other means. Meanwhile, new CIA Director Porter Goss told the Senate Intelligence Committee the Iraq war was giving terrorists experience and contacts for future attacks, and FBI Director Robert Mueller expressed worry that a sleeper operative in the United States might have been in place for years, awaiting orders for an attack. ''I remain very concerned about what we are not seeing,'' Mueller said in remarks he submitted to the senators. Rumsfeld told the House Armed Services Committee that the proposed $419 billion defense package for 2006 would set an ambitious course to ''continue prosecuting the war and to attack its ideological underpinnings.'' Senior administration officials appearing at a series of congressional hearings Wednesday described a Muslim extremist threat that's become more diffuse, encompassing al-Qaida and like-minded associates. ''It may be only a matter of time before al-Qaida or other groups attempt to use chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear weapons,'' Goss said at the Senate Intelligence Committee's annual hearing on threats. AP

Sometimes Dean says goofy things, but some of those right on. He at least knows how to balance a budget.

shit.. are we supposed to respond with dubya quotes? that would kinda make this post pointless.

sorry if dean seams like a threat to your ideals. it's pretty bad when the worst thing you can pull on dean is a hoo-haa and:

quote:

"We have got to stop having the campaigns run in this country based on abortion, guns, God and gays..." -- Howard Dean

and boy, wasn't he off-target there

so its bad that a political leader isn't an expert on all things biblical?

maybe i'm an oddball but i'd rather my politicians were reading their history books than their church books.

Re: I we thought Bush had something to say....

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Oh the irony....

What irony?

quote:

Religion "From a religious point of view, if God had thought homosexuality is a sin, he would not have created gay people." -- Howard Dean

From a religious standpoint, couldn't have said it better myself. Your point?

quote:

"After hearing Dr Dean's observation, beginning with 'If you know much about the Bible - which I do', a reporter asked about his favourite New Testament book. Dr Dean named Job, adding, 'But I don't like the way it ends... in some of the books of the New Testament; the ending of the Book of Job is different... There's one book where there's a more optimistic ending, which we believe was tacked on later'. The candidate returned an hour later to confess error: Job was in the Old Testament, not the New. Beyond that slip, his recollection of 'one book where there's a more optimistic ending' is muddled; the Book of Job in the Old Testament has an upbeat ending, with God doubling Job's former wealth and giving him new children for having sustained his piety through all his trials." -- William Safire describes Howard Dean's difficulties with Job.

Actually I find it a bit irony how the dubious lying little shit, Bill Safire, finds it fitting to point the finger at someone, ANYONE else on their mistakes. This big fat fucking pot calls the kettle black one too many times:

http://mediamatters.org/items/200411160001

http://archive.salon.com/news/featu...fire/index.html

http://archive.salon.com/opinion/fe...4/02/21/safire/

I didn't realize how good a "Christian" Safire really was myself. How foolish of me.

quote:

"Dean himself moved from Episcopalian to Congregationalist "because I had a big fight with a local Episcopal church about 25 years ago over the bike path." He does not hesitate to reveal this information or to declare that he seldom goes to church." -- Robert Novak

Oh NOOOOOO!!!!!! A politician failing to succomb and kowtow to the religious nutbags?!? Stop the presses!!!

And need I really say anything about this other piece of shit, Robert Novak who's ass should be in jail for compromising our national security by outing a covert CIA agent who's job was to find WMD?

quote:

"My view of Christianity . is that the hallmark of being a Christian is to reach out to people who have been left behind. So I think there was a religious aspect to my decision to support civil unions." -- Howard Dean

I'm trying to find something erroneous in that statement. Perhaps I missed it - are you willing to point it out?

quote:

Republicans "I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for..." -- Howard Dean

Nothing like a little honesty in the man. You think Rove and the rest of the neocon fucks think any differently about Democrats? The only difference is they're too chickenshit to come clean and say it.

quote:

"I think a library trustee is pretty important," Dean said, during "an administration that likes book burning more than reading books." -- Howard Dean as quoted by USA Today

And?

quote:

"The truth is the President of the United States used the same device that Slobodan Milosevic used in Serbia. When you appeal to homophobia, when you appeal to sexism, when you appeal to racism, that is extraordinarily damaging to the country." -- Howard Dean

Again, and?

quote:

Misc "I don�t know. There are many theories about (9/11). The most interesting theory that I�ve heard so far�which is nothing more than a theory, it can�t be proved�is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis. Now who knows what the real situation is? But the trouble is, by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kind of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not, and eventually, they get repeated as fact. So I think the president is taking a great risk by suppressing the key information that needs to go to the Kean Commission." -- Howard Dean

Though this is admittedly not the best statement from Dean, the full context is helpful:

quote:

Caller: Once we get you in the White House, would you please make sure that there is a thorough investigation of 9/11 and not stonewalling? Howard Dean: Yes there is a report which the president is suppressing evidence for, which is a thorough investigation of 9/11. Diane Rehm: Why do you think he is suppressing that report? Howard Dean: I don�t know. There are many theories about it. The most interesting theory that I�ve heard so far�which is nothing more than a theory, it can�t be proved�is that he was warned ahead of time by the Saudis. Now who knows what the real situation is? But the trouble is, by suppressing that kind of information, you lead to those kind of theories, whether they have any truth to them or not, and eventually, they get repeated as fact. So I think the president is taking a great risk by suppressing the key information that needs to go to the Kean Commission.

Taken in full context it looks more like Dean is saying that the Bush Administration should cooperate more closely with the 9/11 Commission in order to dispell these conspiracy theories. Still, it does appear that Dean was trying to have it both ways - conflating a conspiracy theory while accusing the Administration of not being more forthcoming at the same time. Definitely could have stated this more clearer.

quote:

"I told Steve McMahon, the media guy for Dean, who was on 'Crossfire': You have one of the three most influential presidential campaigns of my lifetime. That's the good news. The bad news is the other two are McGovern and Goldwater." -- James Carville

And we wonder why CNN is getting rid of Crossfire? Carville's a stupid Washington hack for the left - one of the very reasons why the DNC voting in Dean rather than a Beltway choice.

quote:

"For me as a political figure, it was in many ways the most important event in my political life. There aren�t many people who get to do what I did." -- Howard Dean on Vermont's Civil Unions Law

And you're saying this is bad?

quote:

"Not only are we going to New Hampshire ... we're going to South Carolina and Oklahoma and Arizona and North Dakota and New Mexico, and we're going to California and Texas and New York! And we're going to South Dakota and Oregon and Washington and Michigan. And then we're going to Washington, D.C. to take back the White House, Yeeeeeaaaaaargh!" -- Howard Dean in the Iowa concession speech that proved to be the final nail in his campaign's coffin

God forbid a little excitement on the campaign trail! Hey, I love the Dean Scream as much as the next guy, but really - so fucking what?

quote:

"We have got to stop having the campaigns run in this country based on abortion, guns, God and gays..." -- Howard Dean

Indeed we do. The "moral values" debate being narrowed down to such ridiculous levels as this is repulsive to me too.

quote:

Race "I still want to be the candidate for guys with Confederate flags in their pickup trucks." -- Howard Dean

Well you gotta appeal to the redneck Southerners somehow.

quote:

"I believe that the flag of the Confederate States of America is a painful symbol and reminder of racial injustice and slavery which (Abraham) Lincoln denounced from here over 150 years ago." -- Howard Dean

Yes, it was a clumsy thing of him to say at first about the pickup truck. But what did he say after that?:

quote:

But Dean did not apologize. He said, "We're not going to win this country, and even worse, Democrats, if we don't have a big tent." He said, "This country needs to engage in a serious discussion about race and that everyone must participate in that discussion." Dean said, "I started this discussion in a clumsy way. This discussion will be painful and I regret the pain that I may have caused either to African-American or Southern white voters in the beginning of this discussion. But we need to have this discussion in an honest, open way." http://edition.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLI...prez.dean.flag/

quote:

"We're going to tell all those white boys who run the Republican Party to stay out of our bedrooms." -- Howard Dean forgets what color he is.

Oh that's cute. You really think he forgot what color he was, or perhaps he was stating an element of truth about the Texas Supreme Court case that struck down the anti-sodomy laws, allowing homosexuals to actually have (*gasp*) intercourse!!! Oh the agony!!!

Or what's worse, they actually allowed heterosexuals to have (oh GOD NO!!!) oral sex! Can you believe this slimy filth?!? What God-forsaken planet are we on?!?

quote:

"You think the Republican National Committee could get this many people of color in a single room? Only if they had the hotel staff in here." -- Howard Dean

Right on the fucking money. And even conservative commentators agree with him:

quote:

"Give me a break. Dean is saying, hyperbolically, that there aren't many blacks or other nonwhites in the Republican party. He's right. I've been to many, many Republican dinners where most nonwhites present have been serving the food. (Or giving the keynote.) If Republicans are bothered when people make that observation, they should try to make it less true." -Ramesh Ponnuru of National Review http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...ns/kurtzhoward/

quote:

"Dealing with race is about educating white folks..." -- Howard Dean

Who else would it be educating - the African Americans? Again I fail to see how this quote is fallacious in any way (though he could have stated this a bit better again). And once again, the full context helps:

quote:

"Dealing with race is about educating white folks. Not because white people are worse than black people about race but because whites are in the majority, and therefore the behavior of whites has a much bigger influence on hiring practices and so forth and so on than the behavior of African-Americans."

quote:

The War On Terrorism "It's a victory for the Iraqi people ... but it doesn't have any effect on whether we should or shouldn't have had a war. ...I think in general the ends do not justify the means." -- Howard Dean after we blew away Uday & Qusay Hussein

Well stated. Something I've argued over and over again here. Your point?

quote:

"We've gotten rid of (Saddam Hussein), and I suppose that's a good thing" -- Howard Dean, April 9, 2003

Full context, once again, puts his quote in a bit of a better light:

quote:

Sure. The reason I didn�t support the war�and I continue to maintain this position�is because it opens up a new, dangerous, preemptive doctrine. And the war resolution urged the president to go to the United Nations, but made no such requirement. I think it�s a dangerous thing to do, to give the president six months ahead of time a blank check, which is what I think the resolution did. We have more dangerous foes in front of us, North Korea and Al-Qaeda; there�s been no such concentration on those dangers. And I think Senator or Ambassador Moseley Braun is right. We�re going to spend a lot of money in Iraq. We�re at $80 billion, it�s going to be $200 billion. For $200 billion, we can insure every child under the age of 18 in this country, just like we do in the state of Vermont. It seems to me that that�s a better investment. We need to contain Saddam, we should have contained Saddam. We�ve gotten rid of him, and I suppose that�s a good thing, but there�s going to be a long period where the United States is going to need to be maintained in Iraq, and that�s going to cost American taxpayers a lot of money that could be spent on schools and kids.

Couldn't agree more.

quote:

"We don't know that yet. We don't know that yet, Wolf. We still have a country whose city is mostly without electricity. We have tumultuous occasions in the south where there is no clear governance. We have a major city without clear governance." -- Howard Dean's reply when he was asked if he Iraq was better off without Saddam, April 23, 2003

Again, couldn't agree more. And?

quote:

"...The capture of Saddam has not made America safer." -- Howard Dean

Full context, once again:

quote:

As our military commanders said, and the President acknowledged yesterday, the capture of Saddam does not end the difficulties from the aftermath of the administration's war to oust him. There is the continuing challenge of securing Iraq, protecting the safety of our personnel, and helping that country get on the path to stability. There is the need to repair our alliances and regain global support for American goals. Nor, as the president also seemed to acknowledge yesterday, does Saddam's capture move us toward defeating enemies who pose an even greater danger: al Qaeda and its terrorist allies. And, nor, it seems, does Saturday's capture address the urgent need to halt the spread of weapons of mass destruction and the risk that terrorists will acquire them. The capture of Saddam is a good thing which I hope very much will help keep our soldiers safer. But the capture of Saddam has not made America safer.

Which again, I couldn't agree with more. It's easy to take bits of quotes and leave them out of context. Something you Republicans do quite well.

quote:

"I've resisted pronouncing a sentence before guilt is found. I will have this old-fashioned notion that even with people like Osama, who is very likely to be found guilty, we should do our best not to, in positions of executive power, not to prejudge jury trials." -- Howard Dean on Bin Laden

He sounds quite logical and correct in citing our court system maxim - innocent before proven guilty. You do remember that one, right? As despicable as Osama is, our court system is universal and applies even to the most twisted folks like him.

What, you want that rule to only apply to people you like? Sorry it doesn't work that way for you. Negative Spin answers this pretty well too:

http://www.negativespin.com/blog/archives/000220.html

quote:

"(9/11 & the aftermath will) require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street." -- Howard Dean after 9/11

Definitely an ill-advised knee-jerk reaction, one which he obviously believed was incorrect. The rest of the quote is of interest, however:

quote:

Dean said he had not taken a position on these questions. Asked whether he meant that specific rights described in the Bill of Rights � the first 10 amendments to the U.S. Constitution � would have to be trimmed, the governor said: �I haven't gotten that far yet. I think that's unlikely, but I frankly haven't gotten that far. Again, I think that's a debate that we will have.�

Emphasis mine. So he believes a debate on civil rights was warranted, but that no changes in the basic civil rights will likely take place. I guess that's "bad" per se, but considering that's pretty much exactly what SHOULD have taken place in passing the Patriot Act, rather than the devious and slippery methods Ashcroft and the Justice Dept. utilized in passing it, I'm not too much in disagreement with his statement. Though again it is a bit of a knee-jerk reaction. The difference between him and Ashcroft, however, is Ashcroft showed no pause in the similar knee-jerk thought - he acted on it immediately and put it into law. Quite a scary difference, really.


Look, I get your point - Dean isn't the most noteworthy spokesman, and that there's a notable comparison between his rhetoric and shoot-from-the-hip statements and Bush's. The trouble is as someone else pointed out - Bush's statements fill volumes of books, plus there's that minor difference in that the misstatements and contradictions from the most powerful man in the world are a bit more noticeable and harmful. But that's why Dean isn't President either - and is the chairman of the DNC instead. His attributes of being outspoken, raising buttloads of money, and his desire to spend that money and take on the Republicans LOCALLY across the nation is what got him a landslide of votes for the DNC chair. He's also gonna cease the party from hiring the same idiotic greedy fucking Beltway consultants who could give 2 shits about the Dem. party and continue to LOSE for them, which is a major step in the right direction too.

To me with attempts like this it looks more like the Republicans are afraid of him more than anything, which they should be. I'd take him anyday over a hypocrit like Ken �I refuse to acknowledge my homosexuality on record to my party� Mehlman. But hey, just my humble opinion, of course.

Wow...that's a whole lotta effort of a rhetorical post

Whatever floats yur boat dood...

quote:

From a religious standpoint, couldn't have said it better myself. Your point?

In the same logic god shouldnt of created murderers, rapists, or perverts!!!!

quote:

Actually I find it a bit irony how the dubious lying little shit, Bill Safire, finds it fitting to point the finger at someone, ANYONE else on their mistakes. This big fat fucking pot calls the kettle black one too many times:

wow pointing your finger at the person who wrote the articles downfallings and unwilling to answer the questions that he raised...A class liberal bullshit I should give you a award
oh wait you already have one

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Oh NOOOOOO!!!!!! A politician failing to succomb and kowtow to the religious nutbags?!? Stop the presses!!!

does when hes trying to get votes by talking in churches

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Nothing like a little honesty in the man. You think Rove and the rest of the neocon fucks think any differently about Democrats? The only difference is they're too chickenshit to come clean and say it.

again trying to excuse your downfallings by pointing to someone else its comparable to hannibal pointing to that guy who kept people down in a whole to make skins out of and saying "im not at fault because he does it too" fact being you dont even have proof they hate democrats your just full of hot gas and spite...

quote:

Indeed we do. The "moral values" debate being narrowed down to such ridiculous levels as this is repulsive to me too.

then mighty you provide what levels moral values shoudl be debated on I was under the impression that moral values is what the public cares about but im sure youll come up with something about no wars, no protecting ourselves letting terrorists come in and bomb our nations because its immoral to try to kill ...

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Well you gotta appeal to the redneck Southerners somehow

even when your not trying in the least to represent even one of there values? even for democrats thats a new low...God forbid bush never tried to reach out and tell libearls he was standing for there values...

quote:

Oh that's cute. You really think he forgot what color he was, or perhaps he was stating an element of truth about the Texas Supreme Court case that struck down the anti-sodomy laws, allowing homosexuals to actually have (*gasp*) intercourse!!! Oh the agony!!! Or what's worse, they actually allowed heterosexuals to have (oh GOD NO!!!) oral sex! Can you believe this slimy filth?!? What God-forsaken planet are we on?!?

theres a actaul pyschological explanation for this type of action its called projection and misdirection...basically your again trying to attack us because we did something wrong without answering the questions that are originally provided...answering a question with a question...it can be a serious mental health problem i recommend you get help asap...

quote:

Right on the fucking money. And even conservative commentators agree with him:

and im sure howard dean and all the presidential canidates were willing to put a black female as secratary of state


oooh ahh sorry did I burn you maybe you need some vaseline

quote:

"From a religious point of view, if God had thought homosexuality is a sin, he would not have created gay people." -- Howard Dean

And if God didn't mean for us to eat animals he wouldn't have made them out of meat.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Wow...that's a whole lotta effort of a rhetorical post Whatever floats yur boat dood...

In other words,
the truth just pwned you.

quote:

Originally posted by electronicmaji2 In the same logic god shouldnt of created murderers, rapists, or perverts!!!!

http://www.occultopedia.com/a/azazel.htm

http://www.meta-religion.com/Esoter...tian_demons.htm

ISAIAH 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

quote:

Originally posted by electronicmaji2 oooh ahh sorry did I burn you maybe you need some vaseline

At least it was a good attempt.

and we thought trancer-x had something to say...






+1

and we thought trancer-x had something to say...






+1

quote:

Originally posted by electronicmaji2 and we thought trancer-x had something to say... +1

It's good to see that you agree with yourself on that one.

"'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt." - Samuel Johnson

is that the best you can do?

no wonder the democrats lost the eletion

quote:

Originally posted by Trancer-X It's good to see that you agree with yourself on that one. "'Tis better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open one's mouth and remove all doubt." - Samuel Johnson

right on

no wonder all the conservatives left this forum you offer no competition at all i mean the least you could do is try to debate .....

dude cmon, dont tell me that wasnt funny.. chill

quote:

Originally posted by electronicmaji2 no wonder all the conservatives left this forum you offer no competition at all i mean the least you could do is try to debate .....

Not really much to debate on this topic. I could list out of context all the dumb things Condi, Rummy, Bush, Cheney, Delay, Hastert, Gingrich, etc. have said. What does that really prove? It would be nice if conservatives pointed out one good thing that the adminsitration is actually doing that improves our lives rather than posting talking points that are somehow supposed to label people "liberals." For the record, Dean was still right that we're not any safer with Saddam Hussein gone. Probably worse off actually with how the rest of the world views us now, especially many Muslims.

quote:

Originally posted by wolverine16 Not really much to debate on this topic. I could list out of context all the dumb things Condi, Rummy, Bush, Cheney, Delay, Hastert, Gingrich, etc. have said. What does that really prove? It would be nice if conservatives pointed out one good thing that the adminsitration is actually doing that improves our lives rather than posting talking points that are somehow supposed to label people "liberals." For the record, Dean was still right that we're not any safer with Saddam Hussein gone. Probably worse off actually with how the rest of the world views us now, especially many Muslims.

+1

if you think that were not safer because sadams im not gonna even dignify your mental state with a word for it



democrats always act like republicans are the only ones that say stupid stuff when half of the stuff we say makes sense to me

but its nice howard dean is chairman of the party now you can finally show face for what you are a liberal party and in 2008 I predict you will get 35% or less of the vote if you continue going this way

haha that actaully makes me happy

you can say your smart

you can call us stupid

but it wont get you any votes and it wont put you in office

prepared to become a even smaller minority?

quote:

Originally posted by electronicmaji2 if you think that were not safer because sadams im not gonna even dignify your mental state with a word for it democrats always act like republicans are the only ones that say stupid stuff when half of the stuff we say makes sense to me but its nice howard dean is chairman of the party now you can finally show face for what you are a liberal party and in 2008 I predict you will get 35% or less of the vote if you continue going this way haha that actaully makes me happy you can say your smart you can call us stupid but it wont get you any votes and it wont put you in office prepared to become a even smaller minority?

Chill man. I think you're generalizing, because a lot of Democrats and progressives disagree with the Republicans on their issues. Keep in mind that unless you want a totalitarian government, you need opposing points of view to that of those in power,which right now is the Republicans. Dean is really not so liberal by the way if you look at what his record was in Vermont.

On the Saddam issue, have you seen any surveys of how we're viewed in the rest of the world? It's dropped a lot since we decided to go into Iraq and intelligence sources say that Al Qaeda used the war as a recruitment tool. Keep in mind that more than 100,000 Iraqi civilians died in the war and now sudenly there's massive violence there. That may not mean much to you, but it does to people in the Middle East. Also, where are those WMDs we were after anyway?

man, you really need to calm down. all your posts seem to be filled with anger or are offensive to the person you're addressing

Well if it ain't my good Bible-thumpin' nutbag buddy, electronicmaji2! By golly it's been too long since you've shown your face around here. Why you been cowerin' away this whole time? You'd think with all the religious talk we have here you'd surely show your face around every now and then, but you seemingly continue to hit and run at will.

Let's see just how long we can keep you around this time, shall we?

quote:

Originally posted by electronicmaji2 In the same logic god shouldnt of created murderers, rapists, or perverts!!!!

Well as I've done in the majority of these misquotes, I've examined them in full context. Have you gotten off your lazy ass and done the same, or do I have to do it for you?

Okay, here ya go, champ, here's the full context:

quote:

"The overwhelming evidence is that there is very significant, substantial genetic component to it,� Dean said in an interview Wednesday. �From a religious point of view, if God had thought homosexuality is a sin, he would not have created gay people." http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...2-2004Jan7.html

IOW, he's correctly stating the irony of God DELIBERATELY creating homosexuals, since according to Christian belief God does in fact have a hand in all of creation, and yet he's creating these "sinful" people DELIBERATELY as a result of the supporting evidence of a genetic component to homosexuality vs. the "nurture" aspect.

Did you get that champ, or do you require some further clarity?

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wow pointing your finger at the person who wrote the articles downfallings and unwilling to answer the questions that he raised...A class liberal bullshit I should give you a award oh wait you already have one

You see, it's that toiletbowl-like 5th grade whit of yours that I miss so darn much! You really outa come 'round here more often, champ.

But back to the point - I didn't have to answer the first point regarding Dean's mistake on Job and the NT - BECAUSE DEAN CORRECTED HIS OWN MISTAKE THERE. You know, I do realize it's hard for you fundie Christians and Bush-lovin' freaks to come 'round and admit mistakes, since your Grand Poohbah leader doesn't do it himself.

But just remember, it is very Christian to do so. And Dean really isn't much of a Christian at that, so go figure.

And in regards to that lying sack of shit, Safire's point on Job ending up with a happy ending, I'll heartily disagree personally because God was completely fucking with Job just to prove a point to Satan, and it was complete bullshit all the heartache he gave him just to prove His point. I mean really � what kind of sick fuck would grant Satan powers to essentially destroy a person�s life, only to prove a selfish point about how loyal His followers really are? So great, in the end he gave him a new wife, new monies, new
land, and I guess Job being the dipshit that he was, was supposed to forget about God literally giving him the shaft by killing off his family, stealing his lands, etc. etc. No worries about those memories - you've got yurself a brand new wife that you'll now love because God said so.

Sorry, I gotta side with Dean on that one. Job was one seriously fucked up story.

And as I've said before and as I'll stand by firmly, Safire is completely full of shit.

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does when hes trying to get votes by talking in churches

Yes, I know it's another foreign concept to Republicans like yourself and Bush when someone like Dean actually puts himself out to EVERYONE. Is Dean trying to kowtow to evangelicals, especially in comparison to what Rove and the RNC did by pulling out anti-abortion and anti-gay hate mailers to church groups and church organizations?

Hardly. And that was my point here, in reference to how the RNC essentially uses the fundies and their votes. Surely you're not suggesting that Dean or any other Democrat for that matter does anything remotely comparible to getting at the religious fundie base the same way that Bush and the Republicans did, are you?

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again trying to excuse your downfallings by pointing to someone else its comparable to hannibal pointing to that guy who kept people down in a whole to make skins out of and saying "im not at fault because he does it too" fact being you dont even have proof they hate democrats your just full of hot gas and spite...

Don't have proof of what? What the hell are you talking about or referring to here? And could you try to use a period and correct spelling every once in a while? Surely you've developed these writing skills by now? If English isn�t your primary language, fine � I�ll accept that. But could you at least try to use a period every now and then?

But again, first off the context is important. What Dean was referring to here was not the Republican voters, but the Republicans, or to be more specific - the current neoconservatives who are in power. It's also interesting what he said immediately after that statement:

"but I admire their discipline and their organization"

So again the context is important. And based on the past four years, I'll say it again - I couldn't fucking agree more. As a friend of mine, a blogger over at www.mydd.com correctly states, "Yes, we hate wars based on lies, we hate torture, we hate government-sponsored propaganda, and we hate crises invented for political gain. And we hate an administration that attempts to legitimize these policies."

Couldn�t agree more.

quote:

then mighty you provide what levels moral values shoudl be debated on I was under the impression that moral values is what the public cares about but im sure youll come up with something about no wars, no protecting ourselves letting terrorists come in and bomb our nations because its immoral to try to kill ...

I'm really trying to follow what you're saying, but it is a bit difficult. If I'm not answering your questions, I do apologize, but as I've said your writing does need a bit of work.

So if I'm to understand you correctly, you think my position regarding the moral values issue comes down to not supporting wars, not protecting ourselves and freely allow terrorists come in and bomb our nations because I somehow believe killing of any kind for any reason is immoral?

Wow, I must say that considering you've given no voice of opinion here for quite some time now, but yet you�ve pinned my opinions down pat.

/dripping sarcasm.

Perhaps you haven�t kept up in my opinions lately � might I suggest you search a bit on your own to gather up my opinions on the matter. Needless to say, you�re assumptions and generalizations are off my a good mile or two.

But let me play devil�s advocate for a second and see perhaps what kind of moral values I might have as a Christian. If you could please open your Bible, any version will do, and please take note of how many times Jesus Himself refers to homosexuality being a sin. Now let�s compare that to how many times Jesus addresses the poor, addresses our responsibility to help the poor, the disabled, and the poverty-stricken. In fact, let�s take it one step further and compare how many times the Bible refers to homosexuality AND abortion being a sin, versus our responsibilities to help the poor, the disabled, the disease and poverty-stricken.

Let me know how many references you have on each side. I�ll give you a slight hint � the latter references will win in a landslide.

Now let�s take those Christian moral values such as helping the poor, the disabled, the elderly, and the poverty-stricken, and let�s address just exactly how this �Christian� Administration addresses this moral value issue versus the homosexuality rights issue that Jesus Himself seemingly says absolutely nothing about. I�ll give you another hint here, it doesn�t look good with the millions of folks falling into poverty under this Administration over the last 4 years�

Oh, one other small point I have about your statement:

quote:

on I was under the impression that moral values is what the public cares about

Now I do believe if memory serves you are a Christian, right? Since when was it acceptable for a Christian to believe that moral values is what the public cares about? I don�t know about your brand of Christianity, but when I myself was a Christian I had a firm belief that morality was absolute and came from God himself, not the public. Surely you believe in absolute morality, do you not?

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even when your not trying in the least to represent even one of there values? even for democrats thats a new low...

I believe you missed the point entirely � what Dean was stating here, and what he continues to correctly state is that the Democratic values are wide ranging, and that they do in fact represent the positive values of Southerners. The negative values of course, such as racism, is not one in which Dean feels the Dems. represent with the extremist Southerners, and rightfully so. He later clarified this exactly with his apology I posted, which you seemingly overlooked.

As I easily conceded � Dean isn�t the best speaker in the world, and he has worded his statements in a rather unfortunate manner at times. In comparison to Bush, however, his misstatements take up a page compared to an entire novel of Bushisms.

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God forbid bush never tried to reach out and tell libearls he was standing for there values...

Did you pay attention to the campaign trail much? It�s pretty apparent that you didn�t, because Bush did in fact attempt to reach out towards the liberals, moderates, and independents a bit. He campaigned hard in very liberal states like New Jersey and even California, and attempted to appeal to liberals throughout his campaign. Now did he attempt to appeal to them more than his hard-core base? No, and I�m not making that argument either. The point being is Bush attempted to appeal towards the opposition voters just as much as Dean, Kerry, and most of the Democratic candidates. That�s just a basic run of the mill political campaigning for any party.

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theres a actaul pyschological explanation for this type of action its called projection and misdirection...basically your again trying to attack us because we did something wrong without answering the questions that are originallyprovided...answering a question with a question...it can be a serious mental health problem i recommend you get help asap...

I�m just curious � are you by chance older than 15? Your wit really does need some serious maturity, as does your debating skills. Nevertheless, I�m a bit confused when you state that I�m psychologically �projecting� myself here. In psychology, one �projects� when one is demonstrating an emotion unconsciously and exemplifies it most often by directly stating an opposite position to what they truly feel or believe. Unless you can somehow directly show I am projecting myself when I make a point about fundie Right-wingers wanting to control what goes on in your bedroom, like the former Texas anti-sodomy law and its advocates, I really don�t see how your point has any merit. I know that�s a shocking revelation and all, but I do feel it necessary to point out your logical flaws.

Now in regards to �misdirection�, again I must say that I�m sorry if you missed my point I was making in regards to fundie Right-wingers wanting to control what goes on in our bedrooms. But in all honesty, I�m thinkin� that you really didn�t miss my point at all, but were trying to be cute and obfuscate my point altogether.

That�s fine � I�ll play your childish game for a moment and explain my point in a bit more detail. First, when the author of that quote states, �Howard Dean forgets what color he is,� I think the author is being completely stupid and ridiculous to think that Dean is somehow �forgetting what color he is�. Either that or he/she really believes the reading audience is gullible enough to think there�s some sort of element of truth in Dean�s supposed forgetfulness. Judging by your comments, I�d say the latter holds an element of truth.

But as I�ve stressed many times over � the context of what was said is very important, and one that Republicans love misrepresenting or leaving out altogether. Dean was right on the money in regards to the right wing fundies, which just so happen by an overwhelming majority to be Caucasian males, wanting to have the government be quite intrusive in our social affairs. The example of the Texas anti-sodomy law is a good example of this. Could Dean have stated this better? Of course. Nevertheless his point is a correct one.

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and im sure howard dean and all the presidential canidates were willing to put a black female as secratary of state

Uhh, huh? Are you really prepared to compare the Democratic record vs. the Republican record in protecting and advocating minorities in the last 40 years or so?

And if memory serves, wasn�t there an African American woman AND man running for the Democratic Presidential nomination? Would you please point to where Republicans have run an African-American woman for a Presidential nomination? Wasn�t there a woman who ran as a Vice-President on the Democratic ticket back in �84? Would you please point to where Republicans have held a similar position for a woman running on their VP ticket?

quote:

oooh ahh sorry did I burn you maybe you need some vaseline

As I�ve said, your wit really does require some serious work. I do have hope for you, though. Intellectual dereliction does diminish with a dash of maturity and a sprinkle of an education�..

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