TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- How do you avoid music you make personally sounding cheap?

How do you avoid music you make personally sounding cheap?

Any ideas?

I think that is the ultimate question in music production isn't it?

Practice makes perfect....... possibly.

im really confused about the question...

Seb.

Spend some time on it? layer? honestly i don't know what you want from me.

yeah in the past weeks i found out its all about layering, layer, layer, layer, layer, layer

This is essentially the same question that pops up here 500 times a year in various different threads: "how do you achieve that 'professional' sound?"

The answer:
1) Get good samples.
2) Get good synth sounds.
3) Learn how to mix them together properly.
4) Have a good idea of what you're trying to do in the first place (solid melodies, some wicked stabs, etc).
5) Do something creative to keep people interested (holden'esque ripped off reverb claps do not count).

The big emphasis falls on #3, and if you want to know how to do that, just practice a lot.

Get someone else to do it for you. Then get them to teach you.

IMO

Layers get as many as possible before it sounds unfilled etc

hard work, good ideas, patience and luck...

thats it

quote:

How do you avoid music you make personally sounding cheap?

you cant. if you are writing a tune and a week after you come up with a riff you start thinking 'my god - this is the cheesiest thing ive ever written' you chuck it and hope the world never gets the chance to see it.

if you write a song and a month later you still like the riff and build and the way it flows you keep it. maybe ramp it up a bit. until you fuck it up with cheese. then you throw that away too.

ultimately its a process of retaining the stuff that consistantly works and binning the rest. unless you have no aversion to selling cheap cheesy crap in your name...

theres no winning formula. you keep the stuff that works. and you keep building on it. you bin the stuff that doesnt. repeat. ad nauseum. law of averages says you will eventually write a tune you are somewhat satisfied with and which doesnt sound stale in under a week.

however sod's law says you'll hate inside of 2.

thats your cue to go back to the drawing board.

usually if can write a song and not hate it after 2 weeks it will have past the first test (the 2 week test i call it) and ill either continue it or sideline it for a bit and continue it some other time or retain some part of it. if it fails the 2 week test its shit. any song that starts to sound crap after only 2 weeks doesnt deserve to be pressed onto acetate or burned to cd. it must be purged...

Okay, one part of my question relates to how much currently popular edm has this kind of turbine like energy through the midrange of the track where the sound varies from the start of the 4 beat count to the end.

Much older music is quite flat through the midrange and this is changing, and much amatuer music does not have this effect.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative you cant. if you are writing a tune and a week after you come up with a riff you start thinking 'my god - this is the cheesiest thing ive ever written' you chuck it and hope the world never gets the chance to see it. if you write a song and a month later you still like the riff and build and the way it flows you keep it. maybe ramp it up a bit. until you fuck it up with cheese. then you throw that away too. ultimately its a process of retaining the stuff that consistantly works and binning the rest. unless you have no aversion to selling cheap cheesy crap in your name... theres no winning formula. you keep the stuff that works. and you keep building on it. you bin the stuff that doesnt. repeat. ad nauseum. law of averages says you will eventually write a tune you are somewhat satisfied with and which doesnt sound stale in under a week. however sod's law says you'll hate inside of 2. thats your cue to go back to the drawing board. usually if can write a song and not hate it after 2 weeks it will have past the first test (the 2 week test i call it) and ill either continue it or sideline it for a bit and continue it some other time or retain some part of it. if it fails the 2 week test its shit. any song that starts to sound crap after only 2 weeks doesnt deserve to be pressed onto acetate or burned to cd. it must be purged...

So true: somebody give the Lord a handclap!!

quote:

Originally posted by t�bias Okay, one part of my question relates to how much currently popular edm has this kind of turbine like energy through the midrange of the track where the sound varies from the start of the 4 beat count to the end. Much older music is quite flat through the midrange and this is changing, and much amatuer music does not have this effect.

Sounds primarily like a case of EQ to me. Earlier in my mastering 'career' I was mastering a trance track, and after some experimenting, came to realise that the lower mids (at 622 Hz if I remember correctly) just weren't shining through enough. Instead, the artist had bunched up too many instruments around the 4-5 kHz range (or used too much EQ), and consequently the sound suffered. And so I once I boosted the lower-mids back up again, the sound instantly got a lot closer to sounding 'pro'.

Also master compression plays a big part in setting a track apart as a 'pro' one, but I think mainly you should be focusing on mixing (in fact, forget about mastering altogether). Use hi-pass filters when EQing each of your tracks, and don't bunch up instruments that occupy the same frequency ranges, but rather space them apart in different ways (using EQ for width, reverb for depth, and compression for both width and depth). There's a nice article on using EQ during mixing here: http://www.dnbscene.com/articles.php?mode=display&id=79

Of course, don't forget that good sound quality alone will never make a good track. If the composition isn't working, then the best engineer using the best effects isn't going to make a lot of difference.

And of course sample or VSTi quality is quite a big issue too, which I believe someone else already mentioned too.

you guys kick some serious tail

thanks for the advice

Thanks heaps for the advice so far.

If you listen to a song like 'my, my, my' (which I hate) you can hear that the sounds really progresses through each 4 beat bar.

Most music made before recent times has a tendancy to change significantly each phase (8 or 16 beats) but not so much on each 4 beat count. I'm not a music terminology expert but I've been listening to edm since the beginning of time and when you hear songs like 'Four to the Floor' they are great to dance to because they have such constant strength through each 4 beat bar.

If you shut your eyes you can imagine a turbine which starts off slowly and then powers stronger and louder through each 4 beat bar.

Maybe that made no sense....

I think the reason some people think their tunes suck is because they set too high goals.. like comparing your tune to AvB when it comes to mastering.
skills doesnt come over night, and dont be too hard on yourselves.
great tip: be satisfied with what you are able to make, then you will have a power in your brain that keeps pushing you forward to make better music. but if you do hate your own songs, your brain is just going to get destroyed of producing skills..

Layer, layer, layer to make it sound full.
Do a lot of experiments on making a clean mix (8 bars or something).
Eq, eq, eq, eq to bring out the best in the sounds.

Listen to good tracks, but do not compare your tune to it.
just listen how the progression is there and the sounds of course and learn..

quote:

5) Do something creative to keep people interested (holden'esque ripped off reverb claps do not count).

Use velocity to drive the track along and check out this link;
http://www.serious-sounds.net/forum...?showtopic=2029

If anyone would like tips / flp / rns files, contact me on MSN:
[email protected]



In Christ,
DJ Youth

There are some great people on TA.

Thanks
Its nice too see that at least someone appreciates the hard work we do to help ya all..

quote:

Matthew 7:12 Do to others whatever you would have them do to you

I agree with almost everything in the post, short of layering. Layering for the sake of layering is a bad idea, and can easily lead to muddying up a track.

Minimalism can be a very effective tool as well.

quote:

Originally posted by t�bias There are some great people on TA.

w0rd

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag I agree with almost everything in the post, short of layering. Layering for the sake of layering is a bad idea, and can easily lead to muddying up a track. Minimalism can be a very effective tool as well.

Yeah, but layering and keeping all the layered sounds toned down and maybe like compress and EQ them together can give a nice sound while still being minimalistic.

I find that's the biggest problem with most n00b producers (like me), we don't throw enough sounds into the mix layer-wise but also like effect-wise, the tracks are often quite empty and that can sound good but still not pro.

Of course it can be overdone aswell.

I find that many sounds do sound 'cheap' without any effects applied to them.. just throw on a nice deep reverb and delay, maybe unison, alittle EQ, and you've got yourself a good sound.

Of course sometimes you don't want to have those effects, many techno or house tracks will even leave the effects completely out. It depends on the style you are going for.

Agree with everything said before, but have a few more points to add:-

1. EQ. It is both your friend and your worst enemy. Used effectively and creatively it can make a huge impac on the way a mix sounds. Shoot to have each element have it's own space in the mix. Use EQ to reduce freqency overlaps. This works wonders once you get the hand of it.

2. Pitch. Make sure everything is in tune. I don't just mean the melodic elements. You can seriously affec he impac of a track by tuning the precussion, kick and spot effects. If you haen't tried this yet give it a shot.

3. Compression. Compressors & Limiters take a long time to get used to. There is no "One style fits all" prests for this. Also usually if you can hearit working you've probbably over cooked it. Compressing individual elements or groups of elements together can help produce a more cohesive sound. DO NOT MIX THROUGH A COMPRESSO OR LIMITER ON THE MASTER BUS. Really. It may sound nicer when you are working, but ultimately it won't help you. See mastering threads for details.

4. Effects. Effects are the bread and buter of this kind of music. Delay is vital. If I could have but one effect it would be delay. Reverb, chorus, flanging and distortion 9If you are doing anything harder) when well used add greatly to the elements of your track.

5. The raw materials. Get decent sounds (A discussion on its own), your mixes will thank you. Wimpy elements make for wimpy tracks. No amount of turd polishing will save you. Garbage in garbage out.

6. All of this is useless without decent monitoring. If you don't have some get some. It is no good if you tracks sound great to you at home but don't translate to any other listening environments. Also if you think about i mixing on a $10 pair of headphones won't make for the best mix transaltion to a 30k pa system. if you are thinking about actually getting records out there invest in some decent monitors, and if you can handle it some room treatment too. Seek a lot of advice on the latter as if you do that wrong you can wind up costing yourself a ton of money and wind up prodcuing worse mixes. If your listenening environment lies to you and you don't know its vices then you are in deep trouble.

7. Be reasonable in your expectaions. You are not going to be "Insert Big Name Here" overnight. It takes a lot of effort to produce great music. Great tracks come with wisdom. Unfortunately wisodom comes from experience, and experience from decisions, most of which (in the early stages) will be wrong.

Stick with it though. It's a fun journey.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.