monitors vs speakers - TranceAddict Forums

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- DJ Booth
-- monitors vs speakers

Posted by displaced on Mar-10-2005 03:41:

monitors vs speakers

if this issue has already been disseminated, the search function doesn't do a very good job...

anways, i bought a crown powertech amp months ago and its been sitting idle because i haven't bought speakers/monitors that would do justice for that chunk of metal. now that i started looking for speakers and monitors, i ran into all sorts of issues like impedence, balanceed/unbalanced, passive/active, rms watt, and you name it. who knew twisting two strands of wire can be so complicated? anyways,i got myself edumacated with the basics and figured i could easily crank 200 watts per channel in stereo. anything more would require some math.

now, about the monitors and speakers. i read that monitors are supposed to be as unbiased across the board as possible and speakers... well, who knows. when bedroom dj'ing, would there be enough of a difference in quality of sound to affect mixing between 100 watt monitors and comparably priced 100 watt speakers?

your inputs are appreciated

Posted by Derivative on Mar-10-2005 04:09:

ok. monitors are typically designed to give the most accurate flat frequency sound reproduction and stereo imaging at short distances. i.e. they are designed so that you sit no more than 1 or 2 metres away at head height. near field monitoring is designed to circumvent the problem of studio acoustics. if your room isnt sound proofed and is very cluttered, near field monitoring cuts out some of the problems inherant with sound reverberation in large untreated rooms and resonance through certain materials because you are very close to the sound source. they shouldnt really be used to fill a room with sound (as in a dorm party) although some of the bigger powered reference monitors have the wattage to carry a dorm party fairly easily. they are also directional in their sound output. i.e. if you listen to them off centre you will seriously notice the sound changing caused by the stereo image and phasing errors caused by listening off centre.

usually, most professional monitoring systems will accept balanced connections. i am not aware of any consumer electronics/hi fi speakers which accept balanced connections.

a balanced connection is basically a way of removing attenuated noise through the length of cable. a balanced cable wiill consist of 3 wires. 1 with the signal in phase. 1 with the same signal in anti phase. and a ground connection. you must have equipment that can accept balanced cables for it to work. the signal goes through the length of wire in and out of phase. on the other side it is cross referenced with the original unattenuated signal and the anti phase signal cancels out the sound leaving the attenuated noise. this is then subtracted from the signal in phase. because of the way balanced connections work you can typically run them from line inputs much hotter than unbalanced connections. on my delta 1010 there is a massive 14 dB difference which equates to...well. a lot of extra headroom. balanced setups cost a frightening amount of money.

consumer electronics/hi fi speakers typically are designed to sound and look good. most hifi speakers are not flat frequency and have artificial bass added through EQ and the materials used in construction. the sony hi fi ive got is unnaturally bassy although most people that go out to buy these hifis just want to boom out their favourite records and have them sound as phat as possible. they can be misleading if you produce via hifi speakers because their bass response is unnaturally high. their frequency response curves also drop off sharply much earlier than monitor speakers and tend to lack the wider soundstage and accurate stereo imaging of monitors. very powerful hifi units are also designed to be listened to at greater distances than near field monitors. as such they are more suitable for small parties and so forth. you can monitor on them but you should be aware of the artificiality of the sound that you hear. they do however tend to flatter records. monitors are more truthful in their representation of the sound. a good set of biiig monitors and a sub can usually fulfill the role of a good hifi system and then some if you are willing to put the money into it. hifi systems are nearly always completely unbalanced and accept the usual RCA type phono connections to other consumer electronics line devices.

PA speakers. do not monitor using these. they are designed to punch out sound over larger distances than either hifi speakers and monitors. they have extremely large bass drivers that are very robust in order to do this. very suitable for small venues or larger house parties. they typically run from a mono source since at this kind of range, stereo imaging becomes weirdly apparant. you can stand on 1 side of the room and half the sound will disappear from a PA owing to stereo placement and phasing errors from listening off centre. PAs will get you the most loudness and presence for your buck although i would not use them in a monitoring capacity. many PA systems can accept balanced connections.

all in all it depends on what you want to do with them. if you plan on listening at short distances and plan to either produce music or reference two tracks in the mix then monitors are the best solution. if you want an all purpose boom box that can be used partially for mixing/writing tunes and still be used room parties and stuff a decent hifi is probably a better option although it will neither as accurate as a monitor and it wont have to power and presence of a PA system. they are also a helluva lot cheaper than both of these.

if you want to fill a large room with sound and plan on using them for the purposes of live performance, then PAs are the only way to go. in either case you will probably need reference monitors for use by the performers anyway.

Posted by Psiweaver on Mar-10-2005 04:43:

I would suggest for a bedroom DJ going with nice pair of Monitor speakers unless you really wanna do house parties.

Posted by auujay on Mar-10-2005 04:51:

Good post above.

Only thing I can think to add is to not write off all non monitors (meaning normal hi-fi) speakers. While many consumer level speakers are not very flat, there are tons of speaker makers and you can find some great sounding speakrs for not too much cash. However they still suffer from the problem of not being designed to be 3 feet from your head like near-field monitors (which is the usual DJ setup). If it is all the same I would get the nearfield monitors.

Personally I am using some great sounding hi-fi bookshelf speakers but I do mix about 2 feet from them. I like my poweramp so my next speaker upgrade is going to be getting the KRK ST8 because they are passive. You might want to give those a look. http://www.djmart.com/krkst8pamoso.html

Posted by displaced on Mar-11-2005 22:08:

so basically... stick with monitors? they don't sound like coffee cans from 30 feet (~10m) out, do they?

i'm trying to cover as much scenario possible with 1 set of monitor/speakers. derivative, thanks for the explanation btw

Posted by Derivative on Mar-12-2005 18:58:

quote:
so basically... stick with monitors? they don't sound like coffee cans from 30 feet (~10m) out, do they?

depends on the wattage on the monitors. more powerful monitors can punch it out further and louder. but. the drivers, baffle etc were designed to provide the most accurate stereo image and soundstage from no more than 2 metres out and the sweet spot is ideally with the monitors at head height with you in between the two of them. you may want to check into main monitor systems although they are scarily expensive. SCARILY EXPENSIVE. they do however punch it out in large studio sized rooms and you can change the LF alignment and field depth depending on the environment you are using them in.

some of the newer studio grade monitors can do this. the new tannoys due out in may this year have DIP switches that change field depth and alignment although since they arent out yet, nobody really knows what they sound like. the stats are impressive though. but the cost (especially on the precision actives) is very high.

Posted by displaced on Mar-21-2005 01:40:

i decided there's no point shelling out loads, so i narrowed it down to alesis monitor ones or klipsch rb 25s or 35s. i think klipsch are home theater speakers but they sounded crisp (unlike my dvd setup), and alesis... they're okay but cheaper... any recommendations?

Posted by Derivative on Mar-21-2005 07:48:

the tannoy reveals are generally considered better than the alesis m1s in that price bracket. they also cost a little bit more but they are pretty flat. the m1s are bassier. but the general consensus is that they are artificially so.