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Cubase mixdown

Why is is that when I mix out to audio from cubase that the result is never as spectacular as what I'm getting directly from the soft synths themselves?

Stoopid cubase

Re: Cubase mixdown

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Why is is that when I mix out to audio from cubase that the result is never as spectacular as what I'm getting directly from the soft synths themselves? Stoopid cubase

Maybe it wasn't all that great to begin with?

Are you making sure to include effects when your mixing down? What mixdown settings are you using?

Re: Re: Cubase mixdown

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag Maybe it wasn't all that great to begin with?

ah ha... very funny doctor jones =)

Yes, all the fx and automated paramaters are there, but it just sounds uh.. more digital and stale and not quite as dynamic as the sound from the softsynths being piped stright from cubase to my monitors.

I'm wondering if its a result of hearing just one waveform as opposed to the mixing of several digital signals within the the mixer. Not sure why this would make much difference but perhaps the way cubase handles the vsts is different to the way it handles audio files??

I've heard of people having this happen before and I'm just wondering if its just the harsh reality of using cubase.

It doesnt worry me a great deal, since I havent even begun to eq or add aditional fx to the waveforms, just wondering if anyone has had a similar experience.

Can you post an example of what you mean? A sound doesn't sound the same in a mix btw.

Thats the catch... I could post a mixdown but it wouldn't be able to post whats coming out of cubase before the mixdown for you to compare it to (without actually doing a mixdown... which is one half of the problem)... if you get what I mean...

If I find I way I'll post it up.

Are you saving it in Mono? I found exactly the same results and as soon as I saved it in Stereo - It sounded exctly the same as it does in the Sequencer (using Cubase too) - make sure you click the Stereo Interleaved tab or else it will save 2 seperate tracks!

MP

quote:

Originally posted by MessiahProject Are you saving it in Mono? I found exactly the same results and as soon as I saved it in Stereo - It sounded exctly the same as it does in the Sequencer (using Cubase too) - make sure you click the Stereo Interleaved tab or else it will save 2 seperate tracks! MP

This is a good point, i found in mono it sounded a bit crappy but with stereo interleaved it sounded like it was ready for the dancefloor!

the Cubase mixdown have never failed on me, not even once... anyway how much CPU im using, or how fucked up and messy my project is, it always turns out good... pherhaps u should post a PICTURE of your audio mixdown settings, the we shall see what wrong there is?

Re: Re: Re: Cubase mixdown

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl ah ha... very funny doctor jones =)

Had to do it!

How are you channel levels? Are you going over 0db on the individual channels? You could be getting distortion that sounds great live but not so great in the mixdown.

MessiahProject: Nope, mixing down in stereo interleaved.


Subtle: Good idea, I will post up a picture when I get home. The settings are pretty standard though...

Stereo interleaved, fx and automations turned on. Mixing out to 44khz, 16 bit, uncompressed wav file.


DJMaytag: I'm not going over 0db, although I noticed that the levels on my master are way down and that I have the amp cranked up pretty high. As a result the mixdown is fairly quiet and I have to normalise it a lot to get it to full level. I wouldn't think this would cause a problem, but I'll try mixing out with the master turned to 0db.

Thanks for all your help guys. The TA thinktank rocks =)

one thing is for sure! Cubase has an internal processing of 32bit, so it sounds better(more degrees of dynamic range (6dB/bit signal/noise)) in cubase. when you mix down I'm assuming you're going to 16bit. it's not going to sound as good. To trouble shoot, mixdown a 24bit 88.2khz file and listen to it in cubase. see if it sounds better like it should. if it does, then it's the dithering down process. if it still sounds bad, then it's something else entirely.

AudioGuru

ok. bounce it down in stereo, 32 bit internal. highest interpolation on the renderer. it should be exact because its digital audio.

there are typically 2 reasons why it might not sound the same.

1) you arent playing the rendered track at the same dB level. amp it up so that its peaking at the same level as your project.

2) playing the resulting audio through a mixer channel with effects on. thus it is being effected twice. ive done this alot. for instance. i have a compressor on the master bus. i render my kick and bassline. i reimport the rendered kick and bass to compare the 2. i notice they sound different. thats because the rendered kick and bassline is playing through the mater bus again and is being compressed again. hence the difference in sound.

Yep, I'm outputting to 16 bit. OK, will try 24 bit like you suggest...

But dont CDs use 16 bit encoding anyway? Whats the point in outputting to a higher quality if its just going to be mastered down to a 16 bit one be it on cd or mp3?

Not that I'm complaining. Hell if it works, I'll be a happy boy =)

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl DJMaytag: I'm not going over 0db, although I noticed that the levels on my master are way down and that I have the amp cranked up pretty high. As a result the mixdown is fairly quiet and I have to normalise it a lot to get it to full level. I wouldn't think this would cause a problem, but I'll try mixing out with the master turned to 0db.

Odds are VERY good that this is your problem. Make sure that the peak readouts on your individual channels aren't going over 0db, then check where the Master output levels are. You can go a bit over 0db, maybe as high as +3db, which will give you some headroom for final mastering and EQ'ing should you choose to do that later.

If the master is pulled down, so will the mixdown level. The lower you have the mixdown peak level, the more noise and aliasing you will get when you normalizin. If your peak is topping out at say, -20db, then you will be boosting the amount of noise 20db!

TURN THE AMP DOWN! What kind of amp are you using? Are you using pro studio monitors? or are you using a home stereo setup? This could be a source of the problem as well.

because you leave that stage to the VERY end. if you keep bouncing parts of you track down at lower bitrates you introduce quantization noise. basically the idea is to work everything in 32 bit and keep everything as crisp and clean as possible - note you also get extra headroom from working in 32 bit over 16 bit. then once you have completely finished your tune, you master it and dither it down to 16 bit. burn it to cd. voila.

DJMaytag: Its actually a half decent setup. Alesis RA-100 amp and Spirit Abzolute Zero Monitors. Not sure why I've adopted this process of having the signal low and the amp high. Alright, I'll mix out at 0db and see if that helps. Makes sense now that you mention that the noise and dithering would ALSO be normalised with the track.


Derivative: OK, is there anything else I should keep in mind when working in 32bit? Any setting in cubase for example. I assume all my source samples ie: pers, vocals etc.. should be at 32 bit also when imported into my sequencers/sampler.

Its like a ray of enlightenment from the production gods. Thanks guys... I'm such a n00b =)

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