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-- newest issue: illegal immigrants in America
newest issue: illegal immigrants in America
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| DOBBS: As we reported last night, Virginia Governor Mark Warner signed a measure that would limit public benefits such as Medicaid and welfare for illegal aliens. Among those opposed to that bill, and now law, is my next guest. Arlington County board member Walter Tejada says the bill, quote, "fans the flames of anti-immigrant sentiment," end quote. He also says there is no evidence illegal aliens are abusing the system. Walter Tejada joins us tonight from our Washington studios. Good to have you with us. WALTER TEJADA, MEMBER, ARLINGTON COUNTY BOARD: Thank you for inviting me. DOBBS: The fact is that it's clearcut that Medicaid and other services are provided to illegal aliens. Why do you resist that suggestion that taxpayers are providing benefits for illegal aliens? TEJADA: First, Mr. Dobbs, no human being is illegal. And the fact is that we have laws already in the books, called federal law, that prohibits undocumented persons from receiving public benefits. What we have in Virginia is a redundant law for something that already exists. Undocumented persons do not qualify, yesterday, not today or tomorrow, to receive any public benefits such as Medicaid or otherwise. DOBBS: So let's start out with a couple of things. No person in this country is illegal? Sir? TEJADA: There's no human being who is illegal, Mr. Dobbs. And what we're talking about are human beings, your next-door neighbor your co-worker, your next-door shopper when you go to the mall, and your classmates. So what we're talking about here specifically is whether undocumented persons are receiving benefits or not. The fact is, there's no evidence to show that they are in Virginia. DOBBS: Well, there's no evidence to show that illegal aliens are in Virginia? TEJADA: Sir, those are your words. What I said, there's no evidence to show that undocumented workers are utilizing public benefits. There is -- we've asked for that information. Let's see it. The fact is, they are undocumented persons, already do not qualify for receiving benefits such as public benefits. DOBBS: So let's go to a couple points. And if you don't mind, let's just you and I try, irrespective of the fact you think I'm anti- immigrant, which I assure you I'm not, but I am absolutely pro-truth and honesty. An illegal alien is one who crosses our borders illegally, who is in this country illegally. Now, that is a person I would refer to as an illegal alien. It does not make them evil, but it does make them lawbreakers. It does, by definition, make them illegal. TEJADA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... DOBBS: Secondly, secondly, the fact is that the documentation of the cost for Medicaid services in the Commonwealth of Virginia is clear. You are aware of it. And you certainly, because you are urging local control over this issue, you must know your community very well. You were a state director of LULAC, for example. You know your community, Latino, legal and illegal, native born, in the state of Virginia. Do you not? TEJADA: Sir, first, these are human beings we are talking about. DOBBS: I've acceded to that. You don't need to keep repeating it. TEJADA: Well, you know... DOBBS: We wouldn't be talking about them if they weren't people, human beings. TEJADA: Well, sir, I agree with you that you are anti-immigrant, absolutely. You have made a way to flame this kind of discussion all the time, not allowing folks an opportunity to allow you to provide balance in your stories. The fact is that immigrants contribute to the fiber of this country every day. We have $421 billion, with a B... DOBBS: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) -- Mr. Tejada, I have never denied there's a contribution to the country. I've only tried to point out that corporations and businesses and employees are exploiting cheap labor. And the fact of the matter is, they are exploiting the very people you say you want to represent. They're exploiting the people you said you did represent when you were the director of LULAC. You continue to create a fiction about me being anti-immigrant? I'm pro-immigrant. TEJADA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... DOBBS: I'm anti-illegal immigration, and I'm anti, anti, positioning and posturing, like the kind that you're carrying out right now. The reality is, taxpayers are paying for the services. And you suggest they are not? Mr. Tejada, you are far, far too intelligent to expect any of us to buy that. TEJADA: Sir, I am proud of my service with the Legal (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Latin American Citizens. It's a great organization. DOBBS: I agree with you. TEJADA: The fact of the matter... DOBBS: It's a terrific organization. TEJADA: The fact of the matter is, in providing balanced journalism, sir, I think it's important that you also highlight the positive contributions that immigrants make day in and day out to this community, to this nation. If we were talking a few years ago, we'd be talking about the Irish, we'd be talking about the Polish, we'd be talking about the Italians. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... DOBBS: The Irish, the Poles, the Italians... TEJADA: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... DOBBS: ... Mr. Tejada, as you know, as a student of history and a very bright and educated man, came through Ellis Island, didn't they? TEJADA: Sir, this is part what I mean. You don't allow a balanced journalism in your show. Last night, you had three great guests, and you wouldn't allow them to elaborate. But I would say to this, what we need in this country is true, comprehensive immigration reform, in that we all agree, I think. I think you will agree on that as well. We need to create the political will to make sure that we do have true immigration reform, so we don't have to deal, folks like myself at the local level, and have to carry out -- put the burden that we already have high assessments in northern Virginia. Our taxpayers are already drained, we're having to pay a lot of (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... DOBBS: Mr. Tejada... TEJADA: ... and we're trying to provide tax relief. So we want to know, what to make sure that whatever the state is putting into place, it is funded. How much is this going to cost us in Virginia to implement this bill? We need a study to determine what the impact of that is going to be. DOBBS: You need a study. Well, I appreciate you taking the time. I hope you'll come back, and we'll have a more comprehensive look at what you call comprehensive immigration reform. Will you do that? TEJADA: I'd be delighted to attend your show if we can do it a balanced way, so we can talk about the... DOBBS: Well, we're going to do it our way... TEJADA: ... (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... DOBBS: ... and, you know, what you call fair and balanced... TEJADA: Well, sir... DOBBS: ... you got to go over to the place over there, what is it, Fox that does that? TEJADA: Sir, you -- Sir... DOBBS: You know, we appreciate it. TEJADA: Well, you have generated public opinion with the... DOBBS: And if you want to have an honest discussion, you're welcome back any time. But you're not going to sit here and dictate the terms. TEJADA: Well, sir... DOBBS: We appreciate you for being here. TEJADA: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)... DOBBS: Come back any time you feel like it. TEJADA: Balance in reporting is what we ask for. DOBBS: I just ask for the truth and straight facts. No politics, no games. Thank you, Mr. Tejada. Taking a look now at some of your thoughts, Duane DeSalvo from California wrote to say, "The Minuteman Project vigilantes? I call them patriots. While our President Bush is concerned about protecting other countries halfway around the world, groups like the Minuteman Project are doing his job here at home. Shame on you, Mr. President." And Ronald in San Antonio, Texas, "If homeland security is responding to the Minutemen by adding 500 new agents, then I guess we should start Minutemen in Texas, New Mexico, and California as well." Dave in Shell Lake, Wisconsin, "I find it ironic that when they put a feeding tube in Terri Schiavo, it is life support. But when a tube is put in the pope, it is for nourishment." D.J. in St. Paul, Minnesota, "America's big three car makers, automakers, are struggling to stay in business, while foreign manufacturers continue to make inroads into the American marketplace. While we don't have much of a choice when it comes to consumer electronics, we do still have a choice when it comes to automobiles. When will Americans wake up and support American manufacturing when they have the opportunity?" And Mo Rahman in Miramar, Florida wrote in about last night's quote of the day, in which a Delta spokesman said work done in Canada was, in his judgment, part of Delta's domestic operation. "Lou, does this mean that there are now 50 contiguous states of the union, 48 lower states and Alaska connected by Canada? Hey, kids, don't study geography, and you might grow up to be a Delta Airlines executive." We love hearing from you. Send us your thoughts at [email protected]. Each of you whose e-mail is read on this broadcast receives a copy of my book, "Exporting America." |
Re: newest issue: illegal immigrants in America
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| Originally posted by josh4 Lou Dobbs has been running a Broken Borders segment recently about the illegal immigrant issue. Below is a transcript from one show. You can find others here: http://www.nbpc.net/multimedia/borders/ and a Real .rm video link here to a recent episode. It seems like all his guests that are against Dobbs' views try to blur the lines between legal and illegal, they simply refer to the issue as "immigrants". Dobbs makes it quite clear that hes not against immigration hes against illegal immigration but they don't want to hear it. |
i only read the first couple lines before i got pissed off...
but seriously...what the fuck do you NOT understand in the word "ILLEGAL ALIENS", doesnt the term alone define itself? illegal as in not supposed to fucking be here, so if you arent a citizen or allowed to be here...get the fuck out...and no im not going to fix you up in the hospital for free and send you on your mary fuckin way. I mean I dont try to descriminate too much between people, but the line that is drawn by govt to say what is legal and illegal is vague and is based on what benefits them and not its citizens. citizens pay an ASSLOAD for healthcare benefits and shit and then you get charged out the ass when you actually go....why??? because I work for a hospital and I know that last year 4% of our net profit went for people that couldnt pay the hospital bills. This is in a suburb where there are primarily no illegal aliens....imagine that % in a hospital in LA or Houston???? I bet its close to 10-15%...and it doesnt sound like a lot but when you talk hundreds of millions of dollars....its a shit ton....who gets stuck footing the bill for them? not the govt...its you the consumer....medical billing increases on a crazy amount every year...why??? because the govt is cutting medicare and medicaid 5% a year for the next five years....so that means 25%....who do you think pays it??? us....and to also counteract the % lost , the hospital increases prices to in effect cancel out the loss. Ok so the govt lowers by 25% and we increase the cost by 25% ....even steven right??? well for the Hospital yah...govt yah...but you??? no you get F'd in the A b/c your bill is automatically higher...unless you have decent insurance that works to get you lower prices on stuff b/c of the volume of clients in their network that get taken to that hospital...this is where recently people bitched about having to pay more w/o insurance than those with insurance. they say its unfair b/c diff people pay diff prices. well it doesnt really matter....people with insurance pay monthly premiums to keep those rates low so when they use them they dont get fucked...and people without insurance pay no premiums nor are they held accountable for the charges....its just a write off....what a cluster fuck our health care is....
TCrew
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| Originally posted by TCrew i only read the first couple lines before i got pissed off... but seriously...what the fuck do you NOT understand in the word "ILLEGAL ALIENS", doesnt the term alone define itself? illegal as in not supposed to fucking be here, so if you arent a citizen or allowed to be here...get the fuck out...and no im not going to fix you up in the hospital for free and send you on your mary fuckin way. I mean I dont try to descriminate too much between people, but the line that is drawn by govt to say what is legal and illegal is vague and is based on what benefits them and not its citizens. citizens pay an ASSLOAD for healthcare benefits and shit and then you get charged out the ass when you actually go....why??? because I work for a hospital and I know that last year 4% of our net profit went for people that couldnt pay the hospital bills. This is in a suburb where there are primarily no illegal aliens....imagine that % in a hospital in LA or Houston???? I bet its close to 10-15%...and it doesnt sound like a lot but when you talk hundreds of millions of dollars....its a shit ton....who gets stuck footing the bill for them? not the govt...its you the consumer....medical billing increases on a crazy amount every year...why??? because the govt is cutting medicare and medicaid 5% a year for the next five years....so that means 25%....who do you think pays it??? us....and to also counteract the % lost , the hospital increases prices to in effect cancel out the loss. Ok so the govt lowers by 25% and we increase the cost by 25% ....even steven right??? well for the Hospital yah...govt yah...but you??? no you get F'd in the A b/c your bill is automatically higher...unless you have decent insurance that works to get you lower prices on stuff b/c of the volume of clients in their network that get taken to that hospital...this is where recently people bitched about having to pay more w/o insurance than those with insurance. they say its unfair b/c diff people pay diff prices. well it doesnt really matter....people with insurance pay monthly premiums to keep those rates low so when they use them they dont get fucked...and people without insurance pay no premiums nor are they held accountable for the charges....its just a write off....what a cluster fuck our health care is.... TCrew |
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| Originally posted by ali92 Thats the only reason why you think undocumented immigrants should go back? Just for your healthcare costs? What if their life is in danger by terrorist or something? |
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| About the healthcare, there's plenty of people born here in the US who scam the providers & whatnot by faking injuries. What do you think of them? |
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| Secondly, don't you think them working here (no matter if it's legal or not) helps you indirectly in some form? |
I knew id find this article....but their are many more if you do a google on Mexican farmers.....i remember reading about this a while ago, and it makes interesting reading, i know the origional posted article or transcript is not about Mexicans specifically, but they must make up a large proportion of illegal aliens in the US at any one time. Over one million farmers have been put out of business due to dumping of crops by the Americans (subsidized crops) many of these farmers and their families illegally cross the border into the US to find work. Anyway the article i will link has a bit of balance to it, but it would apear the Mexicans havnt fared to well out of the free trade agreement entered in 1994 (NAFTA) more than 8 million have been put into poverty because of it......i guess my point is that a lot of these people want to work the land in their own country but are forced to leave, due to no fault of their own, but directly or indirectly because of the agreement which heavily favours the American farmer.....
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| Despite promises of increased economic development throughout Mexico, only the border region has seen intensified industrial activity. In border maquiladora factories, over one million more Mexicans work for less than the minimum wage of $5 per day today than before NAFTA. Meanwhile, NAFTA�s agricultural terms have devastated small farmers, with one million peasant farm families estimated to have been forced out of farming. The displaced campesinos are forced either into immigrating to the US or into Mexico�s overcrowded cities where unemployment runs rampant. During the NAFTA period, eight million Mexicans have fallen from the middle class into poverty. |
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| Since NAFTA came into effect in 1994, it is estimated that eight million Mexicans have fallen from middle class into poverty. Mexicans are suffering a dramatic rise in ill health as their traditional diet is replaced by Yanqui junk food. Mexican farmers go out of business as agribusiness dumps basic agricultural commodities. Mexican farmers are driven off their land to be replaced by agribusiness supplying luxury foods to the US market. Californian farmers are driven out of business by imports of cheap avocados and other luxury fruit and vegetables. |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 That's the real question of the matter here - how much do they really help out our economy? I think most economists would agree that our businesses would literally shut down without their help, the illegal immigrants I mean. There is a balance here from which I am uncertain to give a strong opinion on one way or the other- but the balance is how much do illegal immigrants help our economy, and do those beneficial aspects supercede how much they actually hurt our economy by not being a true MEMBER of our country and thereby NOT supporting our country via paying taxes (for all the various government programs - education, highways, social security, etc.), buying insurance so taxpayers don't pay for health-related problems, and so on? Honestly I don't know the answer to this - perhaps someone here does. What I DO know is this is one of the biggest political hot button issues right now that NEITHER side is willing to come out and speak out for or against. Oh sure, you have a few members here and there, but on the whole neither party is willing to take a stand on this issue. |
For those of you that are so anti the illegal inmigrants, are missing the whole point. By denying benefits to them, does not make things better, but it's inhumane, and completely unfair in part. Yeah, I understand that the filtration of illegal inmigrantion has to get some stop, but the US has an internal problem with the illegal inmigrants, and the way to fix does not go by denying them public benefits. This illegal inmigrants pay taxes too, many pay the income taxes as well, without getting 1 penny back. Many illegal inmigrants have become illegal not by crossing the border, but by bringing businesses and becoming part as victims of the big struggle that inmigration is giving them to get a legal status, yet, this businesses have created jobs for the communities, but granted, INS has been a hard ass by giving them a legal status.. forcing them to stay here illegal hoping for something in the future. This is one of the worst views the american gov't has on the current " illegal inmigrants " .. a big percentage of this came by plane with Students Visa, Business Visas and what not, and have been forced to stay illegal as their Visa has past overdue.. for not having any other choice. The US gives VISAS around the world yearly for them to come in here and live.. why doesnt the USA look for the professionals that are currently illegal because of expired visa?!?.. because the gov't is dumb enough to not get this?.. Im somewhat getting off topic. THe point is that this inmigrants give the gov't free money... if you would kick every single Illegal inmigrant out of the country today, the USA would go DOWN....
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| Originally posted by trancaholic I'm interested in the answer to this - if you ever get it, please forward it. I suspect, however, that any answer to this question will be based on loads of estimates, so any conclusion can be doubted. |
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| Originally posted by MisterOpus1 A very good reason why this has national security issues written all over it. One of the very few things I'll ever agree with Bill O'Reilly on here. I turned your questions in reverse because I wanted to hit this one before the question of the workers indirectly helping. I think the most obvious reply to your question is - the fact that there are insurance scammers out there does not somehow allow it to be okay that an illegal alien walking into the Emergency Rooms without insurance, making the hospital and ultimately the tax payer foot the bill is allowed, does it? Just because one type of illegal activity occurs does not entail another illegal activity, or at the very least a questionable activity to take place (illegal residency with no insurance), does it? That's the real question of the matter here - how much do they really help out our economy? I think most economists would agree that our businesses would literally shut down without their help, the illegal immigrants I mean. There is a balance here from which I am uncertain to give a strong opinion on one way or the other- but the balance is how much do illegal immigrants help our economy, and do those beneficial aspects supercede how much they actually hurt our economy by not being a true MEMBER of our country and thereby NOT supporting our country via paying taxes (for all the various government programs - education, highways, social security, etc.), buying insurance so taxpayers don't pay for health-related problems, and so on? Honestly I don't know the answer to this - perhaps someone here does. What I DO know is this is one of the biggest political hot button issues right now that NEITHER side is willing to come out and speak out for or against. Oh sure, you have a few members here and there, but on the whole neither party is willing to take a stand on this issue. Sorry, didn't mean to speak for TCrew. It's just an interesting issue to me, and I'm glad someone brought it up. |
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| Originally posted by ali92 OK. Since you mention paying taxes, here's a scenario: I buy mostly everything over 100 USD online and never have to pay tax for it, as it's being shipped from outside my state (boy do I love spending my 1000 USD Xmas money online and getting a lot more than say, if I went to Circuit City). What if I never worked 'officially' (as in, I always work under-the-table) before & therefore, I never file tax in the beginning of every year? Does this place me in the same boat as 'illegal' aliens? What makes me, a US citizen, any different here? |
9 billion pesos every year? Damn!
People coming from other countries should do it legally, no, not that. They should also seek citizenship. That way some of these new citizens can help the national soccer team.
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| Originally posted by ierxium 9 billion pesos every year? Damn! People coming from other countries should do it legally, no, not that. They should also seek citizenship. That way some of these new citizens can help the national soccer team. |
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| Originally posted by occrider Well it doesn't make you an alien but that behaviour is definetely illegal. In other words, you could go to jail whereas an alien would simply be deported. The issue of tax evasion is compounded by the fact that substantial public resources are consumed as well. http://www.nctimes.com/articles/200...6_5812_5_04.txt |
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| Originally posted by ierxium 9 billion pesos every year? Damn! People coming from other countries should do it legally, no, not that. They should also seek citizenship. That way some of these new citizens can help the national soccer team. |
wow, paragraphs people, paragraphs.
militia men? bunch of red necks, low lifes with guns with nothing better to do.
"THEY TOOK OUR JEB!!!"
complaining about shit they aren't willing to do.
you may say why don't they stay in their countries and work.
but what you don't see is how american companies put the poor worker out of business. there is no middle class in the americas. most of the economy is in the hands of 2 or 3% of the population with north american ties. north american companies OWN OUR FECKING LAND!@!@!!!
they take whatever we may have so that you may sit happily in your starbucks planning out your weekend or whatever it is you do.
ex. most recently
LINK
so yeah, i am sorry if we had no other hope but migrate north to survive.
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| Originally posted by ali92 Whoa whoa! I don't buy online just to avoid the tax; I buy because the stuff I do buy online simply can't be found locally. Good example are Taiyo Yuden CD-Rs & DVD-Rs, iRiver products, some computer equipment (Plextor optical drives), foreign video games, etc. |
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| What if I never worked 'officially' (as in, I always work under-the-table) before & therefore, I never file tax in the beginning of every year? Does this place me in the same boat as 'illegal' aliens? What makes me, a US citizen, any different here? |
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| Originally posted by ali92 Wouldn't enforcing a rule similar to the 'They should also seek citizenship.' violate people's rights? What if someone wants to, say, come here for a one season a year, for example? |
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| Originally posted by daydreamer so yeah, i am sorry if we had no other hope but migrate north to survive. |
I'm not going to write a long post here because LiquidX's, Ierxium's and Daydreamer's posts would overlap mine and I've got a difficult exam tonight. So summarising what I would post and that it seems that no one covered yet:
Lou Dobbs talking about something other than outsourcing of american jobs... very suspicious.
I'd like to see Lou and Thomas Friedman get together and commiserate on the issue
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| U.S. to pay medical bills for illegal immigrants WASHINGTON (AP) -- Health care providers can charge the government for emergency care provided to illegal aliens beginning Tuesday. The Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services issued final guidance Monday that sets up a system for reimbursement. Lawmakers set aside $1 billion over four years for the program, created by Medicare legislation passed in 2003. For hospitals in border states, the additional money can mean the difference between running a profitable business or an unprofitable one, said Don May, vice president of policy for the American Hospital Association. "I don't know if it will completely change their financial picture, but for those hospitals on the border, this is going to make a difference in ensuring they are there to treat the patients, not just the undocumented ones, but all the patients living in those communities," May said. Two-thirds of the money will be distributed to health care providers based on a state's percentage of undocumented aliens. The remaining third will go to providers in the six states with the largest number of arrests of undocumented aliens. The states receiving the highest amounts in the current fiscal year are California, $70.8 million; Texas, $46 million; Arizona, $45 million; and New York, $12.25 million. Payments to providers will be made on a quarterly basis and will be adjusted proportionately if the bills exceed the state's allocation. One group that advocates stricter immigration policies said the government's reimbursement of hospitals was the right thing to do. "It seems to me that if the federal government has abdicated its responsibility for immigration enforcement, then it's responsible for making those jurisdictions whole," said Mark Krikorian, executive director of the Center for Immigration Studies, a think tank based in Washington. Find this article at: http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05...l.ap/index.html |
so much for the american dream!
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