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Pope wants life support till the end...

This is actually kind of interesting...the man of god himself want to be kept alive by machines...don't hate me for saying this but I find this kind of wrong

I guess god doesn't decide when it's time to go after all

quote:

Pope's 'Living Will' Wants Life Support to the End Thu Mar 31, 2:06 AM ET Top Stories - Reuters By Tom Heneghan, Religion Editor PARIS (Reuters) - Pope John Paul, now being fed through a nasal tube because of his throat problems, effectively wrote his own "living will" last year in a speech declaring some life-extending treatments a moral duty for Roman Catholics. The ailing Pontiff sharply narrowed Catholic guidelines for treating patients nearing death in March 2004 when he described tube-feeding as a normal treatment rather than an extraordinary measure that can be stopped if all hope of recovery fades. This indicates he would want to be kept alive by artificial means even if he fell into a coma or a persistent vegetative state, such as the brain-damaged Terri Schiavo in the United States whose feeding tubes have been removed after 15 years. "The Pope's statement would have to be considered the equivalent of his living will," said Father Thomas Reese S.J., editor of the Jesuit weekly America in New York. "It would be very difficult to unplug him if it came to that." Increasingly popular in the United States, a living will is a written statement adults make to indicate whether they want doctors to use all means possible to keep them alive at life's end or to let them die if all hope of recovery seems lost. As the Schiavo case shows, modern medicine can extend basic body functioning for years -- a worrying prospect for the world's largest church if that means its elected-for-life leader is incapacitated indefinitely. The Catholic Church has traditionally taught that doctors and families could end artificial life-extending measures in good conscience if a dying patient's prospects seemed hopeless. AGAINST "CULTURE OF DEATH" John Paul, who has long railed against a "culture of death" he saw in abortion and artificial birth control, surprised moral theologians in a speech in March 2004 by insisting Catholics can no longer make such decisions even in extreme cases. "The intrinsic value and the personal dignity of every human being does not change no matter what the concrete situation of his life," he told doctors and ethics experts attending a Rome conference about patients in a vegetative state. "The administration of water and food, even when provided by artificial means, always represents a natural means of preserving life, not a medical act," he said. Denying them this treatment would amount to "euthanasia by omission." "Considerations about the 'quality of life,' often actually dictated by psychological, social and economic pressures, cannot take precedence over general principles," he said. John Grabowski, associate professor of ethics at Catholic University of America in Washington, said the Pope had made his views clear but "left many theologians scratching their heads." The problem was that he expressed this in a speech, not in a doctrinal document that made it official Church policy. "The Pope can say any number of things but he has to tell the bishops' conferences when they have to change something," added Father James Keenan S.J., ethics professor at Boston College. "He hasn't done this." As a result, he said, the U.S. bishops' conference and the Catholic Health Association have not renounced the more flexible earlier position even though many Catholic leaders support Schiavo's parents' demand to continue feeding her. "We've spent centuries letting people figure out how they want to go to meet God, and now we have these fairly intrusive claims on a patient," Keenan said in his critical assessment of how the Pope was changing Church teaching on the end of life. "It doesn't seem good for the Church to rethink how to die when the Pope himself is ailing," he said. "The dying of a Pope should not set our agenda."

i always liked the pope. alwyas wanted my soccer cleats blessed by him

Thats all fine & dandy but I would hope that he would pass on the responsibility of "Pope" to someone else.

to be frank that's potentially bad for the Catholic church. Having a living but absentee pope leaves administration of the church to the Cardinals who may have their own agendas.

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Originally posted by RobbyG. Thats all fine & dandy but I would hope that he would pass on the responsibility of "Pope" to someone else.

how does that work anyways? does the pope appoint the next pope? is their a vote? cause if there is.........i want in

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Originally posted by RobbyG. Thats all fine & dandy but I would hope that he would pass on the responsibility of "Pope" to someone else.

I have to agree with you there...I don't really understand why he's still holding it, he's clearly on his last leg, I think it would be great to pass it on to a successor...or is that not how it works?!

Re: Pope wants life support till the end...

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Originally posted by starsearcher This is actually kind of interesting...the man of god himself want to be kept alive by machines...don't hate me for saying this but I find this kind of wrong I guess god doesn't decide when it's time to go after all

It's a question of the Roman Catholic morality. It is immoral to them for one to either prevent life from starting, terminate life, or allow life to end prematurely. This last one has been extended to include allowing a natural end to life. I suppose the argument is that God allowed the machines to exist therefore it must be God's will that we employ them. That being said I don't know why this same logic doesn't get extended to condoms and abortions.... if God allows them to exist he must want us to use them.

What will really suck is if the pope does need to be on life support. Really, what kind of image is that for the church.... their vision of God's representitive on earth is a febal old man who is so weak that he must be kept alive by machines. That says something about the church itself don't you think.

LOL...did someone hack into TA?!?!? What's with all the BS on the posts?!

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Originally posted by starsearcher LOL...did someone hack into TA?!?!? What's with all the BS on the posts?!

Threads in COR look the same way, too...


As far as topic goes, well...no comment.

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Originally posted by drgoodvibe to be frank that's potentially bad for the Catholic church. Having a living but absentee pope leaves administration of the church to the Cardinals who may have their own agendas.

Essentially this has already happened. JPII delegated all of the administrative duties and control of the vatican owned corporations off to two of his most trusted cardinals several years ago. The Pope's Litergical Counsel is responsible for all the day to day running of the church part of the vatican (deciding which readings will be read and what hymns sung). All the pope really does now is act as a figure head and rule on spiritual questions that the college of cardinals cannot decide upon themselves.

FYI, the pope is a political figure even more so then a spiritual figure.... he has his own agenda too. You can bet he's holding on for earthly reasons as much as spiritual reasons.

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Originally posted by starsearcher LOL...did someone hack into TA?!?!? What's with all the BS on the posts?!

It appears that Vivid Boy has discovered the wonderful world of CSS.

quote:

Originally posted by Tordan It appears that Vivid Boy has discovered the wonderful world of CSS.

Nah, according to Neo it was Boomer, Ian^ and a couple of others.

quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel Nah, according to Neo it was Boomer, Ian^ and a couple of others.

I wouldn't stand outside too long in that Miami sunshine if I were you.

quote:

Originally posted by Tordan I wouldn't stand outside too long in that Miami sunshine if I were you.

hopefully starsearcher went to go get me those cookies

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Originally posted by starsearcher I have to agree with you there...I don't really understand why he's still holding it, he's clearly on his last leg, I think it would be great to pass it on to a successor...or is that not how it works?!

I think there is a vote but for some reason i had the feeling that the current pope had to die for them to elect a new one. I always though that they should let him step down. He has expressed that he would love to go back home for his remaining days but apparently can't do that.

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Originally posted by Vivid Boy hopefully starsearcher went to go get me those cookies

doubtful

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Originally posted by che I think there is a vote but for some reason i had the feeling that the current pope had to die for them to elect a new one. I always though that they should let him step down. He has expressed that he would love to go back home for his remaining days but apparently can't do that.

The pope can resign his post at any time. It has happened once or twice but not often. If the pope were to do so the college of cardinals would meet to elect a new pope. The only thing keeping JPII in Rome is his will to stay.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard The pope can resign his post at any time. It has happened once or twice but not often. If the pope were to do so the college of cardinals would meet to elect a new pope. The only thing keeping JPII in Rome is his will to stay.

His will ... can you give a source", cause I agree with Che, to my understaning after he passes away a new pope can be elected

oh 'GOD'! LOL! ... all under the name of mea culpa. ... catholic masochists!

read Dan Brown's Angels and Demons that'll give you a pretty good understanding of the ways of the Vatican and their electoral processes.

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Originally posted by djeso His will ... can you give a source", cause I agree with Che, to my understaning after he passes away a new pope can be elected

If the pope dies then the college of cardnals will elect a new pope. You are correct that this is how papal succession normally occures, however, as I stated the pope does have an option to give up the papacy. This is not done often but has been done in the past and is an option availible to John Paul II. If he didn't want to continue as pope he can step down.
I'm sure if you go to the Vatican Holy See website you can find something on papal succession.

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Originally posted by Moral Hazard the pope does have an option to give up the papacy. This is not done often but has been done in the past and is an option availible to John Paul II. If he didn't want to continue as pope he can step down.

Yes.

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Originally posted by disko-kandi oh 'GOD'! LOL! ... all under the name of mea culpa. ... catholic masochists! read Dan Brown's Angels and Demons that'll give you a pretty good understanding of the ways of the Vatican and their electoral processes.

LoL, Dan Brown is NOT an authority on the Catholic Church.

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Originally posted by Cal LoL, Dan Brown is NOT an authority on the Catholic Church.

I agree. Dan Brown writes fiction, so his research might offer some real glimpse into the internal workings of the vatican but I wouldn't trust his books as a reference source. It's sorta like reading Tom Clancy and expecting to learn the operational procedures of the CIA.

Also, I might be wrong but i thought that according to tradition only one pope can exist at any one time, and the new pope can only be appointed when the existing pope dies. Thus, the option of resigning or finding a successor while the pope still lives would create a new precedent where there'd be two popes operating as head of the catholic church. Something that hasn't ever happened before.

I might be completely wrong about this, but i recall a vatican expert imply that while the pope is still alive, the chances of a successor being appointed is very unlikely.

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Originally posted by Kytracid I agree. Dan Brown writes fiction, he might do some research but i wouldn't trust his books as a reference source. Sorta like reading Tom Clancy and expecting to learn something about the CIA.

You mean the hunt for Red October never happened??!

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