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ASOT: Does it cater for everyone?
OK, I posted this on the AvB forums, thought you might wanna read it too, and discuss.
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Hi.
I can start by stating quite bluntly that I didn't really enjoy more than about 20 minutes of ASOT 190. Before you label me a troll and give me the standard line: "if u dont like it then dont listen to it!!", please take into account that I have been listening to the show since 2001 - I am a faithful listener and will continue to be so.
However, after listening to ASOT 190, it worries me that ASOT is becoming a no-risk, by-the-book selection of fluffy vocal tracks that I regard as "background music". There are far too many vocal tracks that, while not being commercial as such, seem to contain less and less elements of intoxicating trance, and more and more elements of easy-listening and pop.
I mean sure, music moves on - and a couple of years ago, trance was under immense criticism for overusing the supersaw wave and the clich� break-build formula. But after an hour of ASOT 190, I'd have killed for some back-to-basics, tougher-edged trance with a solid hook in it - a set of tracks that keep me energised, tracks I can totally lose myself in. Because that's what trance is about, right?
The oversaturation of vocal fluff and "McProg" in trance now is just as serious as the stereotypical supersaw trance riff problem was, a few years ago. It's nice music to listen to when a set is warming up, but this kind of music now seems to eat about an hour's worth of ASOT every week, and I really think I'm gonna start skipping the first hour if things stay this way. In case my argument doesn't have enough grounds here, I'll outline my main issues with tracks such as "Interstate - I Found U", "Ridgewalkers - Find (Andy Moor Mix)" and "Motorcycle - Around You" (tracks you all seem to love):
1. They are slow, soft, tedious, and boringly easy to listen to. It seems like no-one wants to be thrown about by trance anymore - people just wanna sit in their chairs drinking lemonade and listening to a woman warble on with embarassingly clich� lines like "now I've found you in my arms, and holding you so tight." Don't you remember what it's like to totally lose yourself in trance? When was the last time you felt the THUMP THUMP right in your stomach, and let the crazy mash of synth layers rattle your senses, before the pieces form into one of those totally hypnotic, addictive riffs that you just don't wanna hear the end of? You can insist that change is inevitable, that you wanna be "touched" by the very standard, linear attempt at emotion portrayed by tracks like "I Found U", but I'd bet my house that it was a standard melodic classic that got you into trance in the first place. So why must we leave this stuff behind and lower ourselves into such wussy, no-risk music that anyone's mum could probably enjoy? Christ, people, get some GUTS again, trance is a rollercoaster but some of you are just too scared to ride it.
2. These tracks don't need to be well-produced - if you have a vocalist who can spout out about 3-4 lines, you've got a classic in the making. Sorry to slander "I Found U" so much, but listen to what actually goes on in that track. It's a painfully tedious, boring bassline, and absolutely no drive or energy is created by the percs. But who cares, because you've got yourself a vocalist, so you've got yourself a classic. It's not about sentimental creativity anymore, is it?
3. With so many tracks having vocals these days, it puts amateur producers at a massive disadvantage. In the old days, people could cook up some amazing hooklines and put a lot of effort into their production and get somewhere with it. But now, look at the top 5 in both years 2003 and 2004 - in 2003, EVERY track in the ASOT top 5 had vocals, in 2004 it was 3/5. What does that tell you? It tells you that if you don't have a vocalist at your disposal, you might as well not bother trying. Trance is about self-interpretation, it's about not NEEDING a vocalist to try and force home stereotypical situations that mean nothing to you unless you've been affected in such a way yourself. Trance is about associating with a hookline in your own personal way - in a way that ANY track can mean something to you if it touches you just right. But those days seem to be gone.
I just listen to trance for the feeling it gives me, for the way it takes me over and elevates me somewhat - and I know many of you listen to it for that reason too. And tonight in ASOT 190, I had to wait an hour and a half before the nasty distorted sounds of 'Purple Haze - Adrenalin' powered their way through to me. Here it came, rebelling against all the vocal trash I'd been subjected to in the last 90 minutes. Then what did Armin do? He stepped it up further, with the new Marco V track, and the new "Jellisimo & Tim J" piece. You know what? These tracks were actually INTERESTING. They had something solid behind them, something that made me go "yes, come on! more more more!" They were darker, tougher, they stood out and meant something, they were going for the gold. But it was too late by then, the show was nearly over.
I used to love the hype in the trance scene, where a new artist would bring out a massive new production and you'd hear it on ASOT and just go "YES!!!" You know, stuff like Ligaya and Tiesto's Southern Sun remix and various new Push and Airwave productions. But now, who actually gets EXCITED about a new Andy Moor production? You know what it's gonna be, it's not gonna be anything mindblowing. It's just gonna be some well-produced, cute background music that'll hit you like a sponge at about 132 bpm.
Don't get me wrong, I love all kinds of trance, and a bit of everything is what makes a great set. I'm just a bit worried about the way ASOT is heading, because Armin is a very influential guy. Let's face it, we can't deny that most of the stuff in the ASOT top 20 is stuff he's played TIME AND TIME AGAIN - NOT tracks that people have just discovered and gone "woah, that's really cool."
So Armin, as a top jock and someone who can almost single-handedly affect the state of the trance scene, can you please liven ASOT up a bit? Sure, play some vocal stuff at the start, but please don't make it last 75% of the show. Give us a bit more upbeat stuff, stuff we'd love to hear in a club, a few tracks that make us sit back and be impressed.
Because everyone loves your show, but they just love your show because they love YOU. And your show could be so much more interesting, and it could even obtain a wider audience if you just spice it up a bit with some more techtrance and some more riff-based harder trance, to complement the prog and vocal fluff. Just please, exceed the boundaries man. We listen to the show for TRANCE, so let us know what's out there! Everyone knows about the new Motorcycle productions, and stuff Andy Moor and Adam White have done, and we've already heard tons of stuff from Anjunabeats in the last year or so. Surprise us, take risks, keep the first hour safe then flip the second hour on its head and dazzle us.
Feel free to flame me or defend your musical taste, but I seriously wanna hear some kickdrums again. I wanna be taken to breaking point again. I wanna hear trance the way it's meant to be, where fresh new ideas won't totally detract from what trance actually IS.
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P.S., I'm not denouncing all vocal trance. I just think ASOT is becoming TOO full of it, and that this "style" of music is becoming a problem.
Discuss.
Welcome to the realisation that many of us have had already & Many more will in the future, it's too predictable, it never used to be, but it has become it, You'll now be labelled a hater because you dare question it, but your points are perfectly made 
edit - made not mad 
personally i prefer something with a bit more edge to it. armin has always been the softest of the big trance djs. he was amazing at global last year, fair play, but id much rather listen to ferry or pvd and their style of trance as it is a bit tougher
i agree with almost everything stated in the first post. however, armin won't try to be innovative or unique. he won't take any risks, because he's trying to become the #1 dj and he probably thinks that he has to play it safe to satisfy the masses. what he doesn't realize is that in order for people to take notice of him, he needs to take chances and be innovative. that is how the lessor known dj's make it big - by taking risks and developing a very distinct sound (i.e. james z, dekay, nic etc.) by taking risks, armin could make himself standout from the rest of the big trance dj's and make some waves in the music world.
I think the question is should it cater for everyone?
its not the shows not catering for everyone it is simply your tastes have changed.
but i do agree this mcprog stuff is shit now. I own find and blueberry and i aint hear so much boring rubbish in ages.
I'm all for more pumping trance, vocals or not, but I do really like Around You and Find (albeit the KvA mix, not Andy Moor) 
btw - you won't get any responses on the avb forum - those are his ardent fans who can't see asot for what it is and you can never have a serious music discussion on that forum, b/c his fans are totally blinded by armin. he can do no wrong in their minds. they don't realize that being a fan doesn't mean you have to love everything that armin does. being critical of armin does not mean that you aren't a fan - it just means that you're a fan that can objectively evaluate his work and recognize when armin isn't living up to his abilities.
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| Originally posted by JakeC its not the shows not catering for everyone it is simply your tastes have changed. |
Col,
I think you need to start listening to different music and DJ's instead of expecting stuff to change to meet your musical needs.
I highly recommend you take a listen to this DJ's set if you want a good mind fuck:
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forum/s...threadid=254589
I think this NORMAN H is going to be HUGE !!
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| Originally posted by Luke Terry he was amazing at global last year, fair play, but... |
Well interesting but long read about nothing more than your opinion and request for the "true dark hard trance" on ASOT?
Atleast that's how I understand this post.
However many many more people like the tunes you hate, that's why ASOT is where it is, at the top. It's simple as that.
Armin as head of ASOT is very capable of deciding which tunes work, and he plays many of the new tunes each week.
In 1 post you managed to spit on many of the producers, songs and label which I like.
You mention some old school productions, but I ask you where are they today ? They're gone, go complain to them to return, the sound has changed with new people on top.
In the end I will be completely opposite from you, and tell you I hate the fu**ing examples you suggested as "good trance", no thanks man.
And please, have you even been to Armin's gig lately ?
It's euphoric even if he'd play polka ffs., let alone trance.
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| Originally posted by ctprincess i agree with almost everything stated in the first post. however, armin won't try to be innovative or unique. he won't take any risks, because he's trying to become the #1 dj and he probably thinks that he has to play it safe to satisfy the masses. what he doesn't realize is that in order for people to take notice of him, he needs to take chances and be innovative. that is how the lessor known dj's make it big - by taking risks and developing a very distinct sound (i.e. james z, dekay, nic etc.) by taking risks, armin could make himself standout from the rest of the big trance dj's and make some waves in the music world. |
Col: Exactly the way you feel now I started to feel 1.5 years ago.
I started to listen to ASOT ever since the first episode in 2001.
It was my favourite show and it was a great source for buying new records. So many good tunes were played. But one year ago the show changed and you could clearly notice that a majority of the tunes sounded like if they were made in 10 mins.
The show I once loved had became a two hour pop-show which played nearly identical tunes. 
Where are all cool tunes like Beatpusher - Rokki?
first off, there is nothing that any one person can do to please everyone. it's impossible. ASOT will please some, yet it will turn off others. although i'm an AvB/ASOT addict 
, everything from 100-180 has been pretty blah...though from time to time there are a few gems.
personally i think ASOT would be so much better if it was monthly, rather than weekly.
Theirs more to Trance than ASOT, and more to Trance than the 3 vocal progressive tracks you mentioned in the initial statement. I hope you dont think thats a representation of Trance now, because it is not.
Progressive influences have been around for a long time now, and with some help from major labels, the 3 tracks you mentioned are famous.
Armins show does not represent the wider Trance scene. I find it baffling sometimes. He plays what he likes in order to entertain anyone who likes to listen to him. He doesnt have to abide by any standards or rules.
Im finding so many flaws in your arguements
one ive noticed right away
"Spot on! That's what I mean about "tougher", if ASOT had more stuff like Martin Roth's Orange Theme and Signum's First Strike remake (both tracks he played at global), then I'd like it more. It's just painful knowing that something like 'Airbiscuit - Lately (Riley & Durrant Mix)' would have sounded SO out of place in his Global set, but it's probably the kind of thing he'll be playing this year..."
Please check past ASOTs, you will find that he has played them in his Radio Show.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Fresh Prince However many many more people like the tunes you hate, that's why ASOT is where it is, at the top. It's simple as that. Armin as head of ASOT is very capable of deciding which tunes work, and he plays many of the new tunes each week. |
| quote: |
| In 1 post you managed to spit on many of the producers, songs and label which I like. In the end I will be completely opposite from you, and tell you I hate the fu**ing examples you suggested as "good trance", no thanks man. |
| quote: |
| And please, have you even been to Armin's gig lately ? It's euphoric even if he'd play polka ffs., let alone trance. |
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| Originally posted by Col but I find it impossible to accept, reading the ASOT 190 tracklist thread, how people come away from listening to the show with comments like "OMG! AMAZING SHOW!! ARMIN #1!!" Do they really really REALLY hold that opinion? |
right.
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| Originally posted by swisstoni_uk Im finding so many flaws in your arguements one ive noticed right away "Spot on! That's what I mean about "tougher", if ASOT had more stuff like Martin Roth's Orange Theme and Signum's First Strike remake (both tracks he played at global), then I'd like it more. It's just painful knowing that something like 'Airbiscuit - Lately (Riley & Durrant Mix)' would have sounded SO out of place in his Global set, but it's probably the kind of thing he'll be playing this year..." Please check past ASOTs, you will find that he has played them in his Radio Show. |
it always turns into an anti-ASOT thread anyway.
Its his own show. he plays what he likes or wants, and nothing else, he may play the odd request i imagine, or use the airtime to whore a new label release, as do all Radio DJ's.
He is not accountable for any "demise" in trance, he does not have to play what you like or want, he does not have to stick to rules or laws made by anyone on here.
He is not holding a gun to producers heads and telling them to produce shit.
Get off his back for once.
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| Originally posted by Col One problem with ASOT is that Armin forms alliances. He sticks firmly to certain artists/labels and plays all their music, regardless of it's quality. |
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| Originally posted by swisstoni_uk it always turns into an anti-ASOT thread anyway. Its his own show. he plays what he likes or wants, and nothing else, he may play the odd request i imagine, or use the airtime to whore a new label release, as do all Radio DJ's. He is not accountable for any "demise" in trance, he does not have to play what you like or want, he does not have to stick to rules or laws made by anyone on here. He is not holding a gun to producers heads and telling them to produce shit. Get off his back for once. |
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| Originally posted by swisstoni_uk Get off his back for once. |
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| Originally posted by Col Yeah, he sure did. But I'm talking about the recent sets here, I've already made it clear that I love ASOT, and I'm even a collector. You listened to ASOT 190 tonight, you were in #armind, I saw you. And the stuff he played was nothing like either of those two tracks, they would have been completely out of place. And is that because trance has gone from 'First Strike' to 'Around You' in a 6 month period? No, it's because the show is on the decline. |
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| Originally posted by Col ASOT has made artists like G&D and Moor/White INTO top producers. If Armin had played something else, you would've just followed him and said it was cool, and you wouldn't even know those guys' names. That's my point - ASOT is massively influential, and it's not doing enough to keep things breeding nicely. |
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| Originally posted by Col With that, you've basically proven the points made above - yeah, if Armin played polka you WOULD probably like it. I bet you'd like anything he plays. It's not about the music with you, is it? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Col One problem with ASOT is that Armin forms alliances. He sticks firmly to certain artists/labels and plays all their music, regardless of it's quality. He knows what records are cool, but he chooses not to play them because he'd rather play productions from guys he's allied with, so that everyone goes "omg i die, new andy moor production". |
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| Originally posted by UWM How come everyone who speaks against ASOT automatically has an invalidated opinion, whilst those who support the show count? We have as much right to speak our mind on the issue as you guys do. |
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