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Anyone ever experimented with embedding DELTA waves into a production...

Theory....

Your brain emits four type of electromagnetic wave...

DELTA = 1-2 Hertz (cycles per second)
Deep physical relaxation, pain control & stress release.

THETA = 3-5 Hertz (cycles per second)
Memory, both memorization and recall and IQ growth.

ALPHA = 7-9 Hertz (cycles per second)
Learning, reading and listening.

BETA = 12-14 Hertz (cycles per second)
Decision making, logic and problem solving.

By embedding low frequency waves at the same frequency (1-2 Hz), resonance should occur within the brain, and it is believed that this might enhance the musical experience....

anyone wanna try it or have any views on this?

(i work part time as a hypnotherapist, and I embed theta waves into my cd's, as these are most active in hypnosis, and i find it really does work...)

Eh. Even if it did work it wouldn't work in practice, most speakers and headphones stuff doesn't go lower than like 30 to 50 hz, and I can promise you NO speakers go to 1 hz.

Ehh....this idea is shaky at best. AFAIK, no solid studies have been done to prove this.

However, even assuming infraudio is true, you have to consider that 95% of home hi-fi systems out there won't even be able to reproduce those kinds of frequencies....and to get a noticeable effect, you'd need to have something like piston-driven concrete cones just to get to a reasonable amplitude.

you can't play those frequencies with normal monitors and even less with hifi speakers.

most sub soundsystems roll off after 2 to 30 hz at BEST. most consumer and monitor subs roll off at 30ish. dillinja's valve sound rig has a sub that rolls off at 20 hz ish because valve sound's mission is to produce as much low frequency bass as possible without destroying the venue in the process.

there is no consumer soundsystem available that is capable of reproducing ultra sub sonic soundwaves. for engineering purposes you can obtain frequency generators that can generate this type of low level sound but not at high amplitudes. although this is probably prohibitively expensive for anyone other than research institutions/universities etc. and they will have little to no use support or connectivity for musical purposes. and the stuff that can generate these frequencies at high amplitudes are probably reserved for military testing or something.

and even taking all this into account, it still sounds like that steven halpern hippy shit. honestly, i listened to his record - attracting prosperity and despite all that delta wave, subliminal bullshit - i still am skint. i still feel skint. i dont feel very prosperous.

quote:

....and to get a noticeable effect, you'd need to have something like piston-driven concrete cones just to get to a reasonable amplitude.

the only way to outdo the valve sound crew. instead of issuing, ear plugs you have to give out free hard hats in the event that the building starts to collapse around you under the massive subsonic frequencies that monster is pumping out.

for people to hear it houses and clubs would have to be built around the sound system because the size of speaker needed to pump out that kinda frequency is frickin huge.

quote:

Originally posted by D.Edge if you have Cool Edit Pro/Audition, there is a "Brainwave Synchronizer" effect. all this does is change the panning frequency and strength of the signal to that of one of the aforementioned states. though i'm not certain how this is supposed to induce resonance in the brain (?) i have used subtle low frequency panning in quite a few of my productions, although i'm not aware if there is an effect on my brainwaves...

hi!

Thanks for the discussion on this topic, i've never been able to get producers/TA view on this before. I'm a neuroscientist and I'm experimenting with this sort of phenomena, but the technical aspects of production are complicated, as people said earlier, very few speakers can output these frequencies...

There has been a lot of scientific research on this topic....

This is how resonance is supposed to work.....

RESONANCE PHENOMENA IN THE NERVOUS SYSTEM
When a periodic signal of a characteristic frequency is applied to the system, a resonance response may be expected of underdamped systems. This response is characterized by a surprisingly large output amplitude for relatively small input amplitudes (i.e. the gain is large) (11). The so-called resonance phenomena in the central nervous system are manifestations of the activity of microoscillation
circuits sequentially excited or inhibited in six layers of the brain cortex and macro-oscillation circuits of the brain (30).
Oscillations and resonance phenomena in the electrical activity of certain neuron sets in the brain and spinal cord are important factors in the organization of those connectivity properties that must be tuned by function (162). The complex dynamics of compound potentials and the resonance phenomena might play one of the most important roles in brain organization (9).
In the recent years, the importance of resonance phenomena in CNS regulatory processes has received wide acknowledgment. The resonance phenomena of the brain merit increasing consideration because of several new neurophysiological investigations at the cellular and electroencephalographic (EEG) levels and in magnetoencephalographic
measurements (10).

View the research paper this extract is from....

http://uk.geocities.com/eoraghallaigh/resonance.pdf

just a weird idea...

would LFO controlling let's say panning of the sound at one of frequencies mentioned above, have the same effect on your mind?

I mean...the stereo effect so the sound is going

left <-> right

and back, could have the same resonancy effect on brain...is that right?

If so, there is not a smallest problem to make it even on the cheapest speakers...

or we could try to do some different effect with an LFO (with frequency from those above), it could controll let's say phase, pitch...

could that work? Is there a need for the frequency to be delivered as straight sound? or could it even be the sounds change at certain frequency..?

also...if you make a synth going at let's say 12hz, than any sound will prolly have some kind of harmonics at 24hz, 48 hz...and that could be heard...right?

it's just a few thoughts, so take it easy...

Peace,

B.

quote:

Originally posted by BOOsTER also...if you make a synth going at let's say 12hz

That would be kinda superman like to hear, seeing as the human ear can't hear anything below 20hz.

And Alpha/Beta/Theta/Delta waves are brainwave oscillations measured with an EEG. They don't even relate to waveform oscillations. Your rational is that if brainwaves oscillate 1-3times per second(1-3hz) during deep sleep and you create a sound that oscillates 1-3 times per second(1-3hz) you'll be able to induce deep sleep somehow?

quote:

Originally posted by Rob That would be kinda superman like to hear, seeing as the human ear can't hear anything below 20hz.

I meant you could hear the modulation effect...but actually I think I was just wrong about it...thanks...

quote:

Originally posted by Rob And Alpha/Beta/Theta/Delta waves are brainwave oscillations measured with an EEG. They don't even relate to waveform oscillations. Your rational is that if brainwaves oscillate 1-3times per second(1-3hz) during deep sleep and you create a sound that oscillates 1-3 times per second(1-3hz) you'll be able to induce deep sleep somehow?

Yep their EEG waves, ( i think were getting mixed up, i mean note oscillations, for example C - G at 4-6Hz). Some studies in US put headphones on subjects, flanged a note at 2-4 Hz for about 4-5 min and some subjects experienced astral projection and out of body experiences (Its becoming a big thing over there). We dont know enough about brain physics yet to say for definite what going on, but there is definitely something going on...

A lot of stuff in your brain works in oscillating patterns and frequencies... for example sleep (the most obvious), temperature, memory consolidation and your circadian rhythms (and ovulation in women).

Let say your produce a tune in C minor, and embed somewhere in the bassline a C - Eb riff flanging sinusoidally at 4-6hz in the background for the lenght of the tune, what effects might it have...
It might do nothing, but there again I doubt scientific researchers studying this have ever tried it either...

who up for trying it...

Astral Shaman haven't you read the replies? Even if it is like you say it could never be used in a real tune since no normal equipment used for outputing the sounds will be able to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by Erty Astral Shaman haven't you read the replies? Even if it is like you say it could never be used in a real tune since no normal equipment used for outputing the sounds will be able to do it.

errrrm...now I think he speaks more of the idea that I said in my previous post...I believe that with

quote:

flanging sinusoidally at 4-6hz

he means a flanger which has the length of one cycle set to 4-6 Hz...that could possibly do the same...

EDIT:
well, I think that to show what I mean with a mp3 sample will be the best way...

I used an FM synth to create a simple string like patch.
Played a C3 note...added an LFO (4hz) which controlls the change of the lowpass filter...
The other thing is that I used a chorus with an LFO set to 6hz...so you might get an idea of what I mean now...

Download here

It maybe doesn't have the desired effect but it may be something interesting though...

and maybe I am completely wrong here

O. If that's what he means that could be true. The reason I thought it was stupid was because you can't embed actual DELTA waves into production. If he means synchronising a sound to the rate of brainwaves then YES it's been done before. CoolEditPro has such a function called the brain wave synchroniser.




However, it's not that good. A far more better way would be modulate panning at the rate of brainwaves. ie. set up a orchestral string and modulate it's panning at a rate 1-3hz. I've tried that in some of my productions for the effect alone: it makes me dizzy

Okay, here's my shot at modulating the panning of a string at a rate of 0.62hz (yep that's half the rate of 1hz)



I thought if brainwaves oscillate at 1hz during deepsleep, then what if you pan at a lower rate? I find 1hz to be kinda fast and not give a dizzying effect. With 0.62hz you're kinda made dizzy/uneasy. Mind you, <0.40hz is MORE dizzying. Oh, and this will only with with stereo speakers. It's also best to have them spaced FAR apart.

Download

Not the best example tho.

I mentioned this a few posts before and someone told me it's stupid :-(

ROFL it was you

Shit, you mentioned the panning thing too. I thought his suggestion was to create a sound at "1-14hz" and listen to it(even the title of the thread implies this), not to modulate/oscilate/pan/whatever a sound at a given frequency. All good tho

sure
when I first read the topic I actually thought the same way like creating note at 1-14 hz which is possible...

So i started to think how could I make my ear listen to sync'ed "something"/"anything"

and I came to this idea quite interesting stuff anyway...

noooooooooooooo


the idea IS making low frequency sounds, not using lfos or any of that shit.

quote:

Originally posted by twisted noooooooooooooo the idea IS making low frequency sounds, not using lfos or any of that shit.

we came to an idea which is possible :P

but hey...if you believe you can...send me an MP3 file :>

quote:

Originally posted by Rob Okay, here's my shot at modulating the panning of a string at a rate of 0.62hz (yep that's half the rate of 1hz) I thought if brainwaves oscillate at 1hz during deepsleep, then what if you pan at a lower rate? I find 1hz to be kinda fast and not give a dizzying effect. With 0.62hz you're kinda made dizzy/uneasy. Mind you, <0.40hz is MORE dizzying. Oh, and this will only with with stereo speakers. It's also best to have them spaced FAR apart. Download Not the best example tho.

holy shit i got dizzy

you know i didnt get dizzy or uneasy or anything all i heard was the monotnus sound panning. even leaving it on repeating doesnt do anything altho i start hearing some ringing on the left speaker after i listened closer.

quote:

Originally posted by ZxZDeViLZxZ you know i didnt get dizzy or uneasy or anything all i heard was the monotnus sound panning. even leaving it on repeating doesnt do anything altho i start hearing some ringing on the left speaker after i listened closer.

try headphones

I think that sound has a lot to do with its awfull

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