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Masculinity in the U.S. and the World

I am doing a paper for a sociology class on how images of masculinity portrayed by the media hurt the male population, and I was wondering if anybody new any good articles, or even good examples (tv, movies, etc.) that pertain to this topic. Thanks

and yes I know the irony of having a Sin City signature

Your paper is going to suck because images of masculinity portrayed by the media don't hurt the male population, they only hurt those male individuals who buy into that metrosexual bullshit and waste all their money trying to look as much like women as possible.

However, I can tell you from experience that no sociology professor wants the hear the truth, which is that the ability to be adversely affected by audio/video media is not a property of a population or group of people at all. Since only an individual has the ability to perceive and the individual's perception is inherently personal, sensory input such as media information can only affect people on the individual level.

So basically if you want to get a good grade on a sociology paper, I suggest you create the most absurd and sensationalist load of nonsense you can compose. Just blame everything that's wrong with anything on the media, or white people, or wealthy people, or men (if your professor is a woman and most of them are), and you'll pretty much get an A.

How about the Marlboro Man promoting smoking, which is bad for your health?

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Your paper is going to suck because images of masculinity portrayed by the media don't hurt the male population, they only hurt those male individuals who buy into that metrosexual bullshit and waste all their money trying to look as much like women as possible.

How can you be so sure that he's talking about the metrosexual image? Considering his "Sin City"-comment, I would have thought he was referring to the macho-cool-as-ice-no-feelings-at-all guy?

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Originally posted by Arbiter However, I can tell you from experience that no sociology professor wants the hear the truth, which is that the ability to be adversely affected by audio/video media is not a property of a population or group of people at all. Since only an individual has the ability to perceive and the individual's perception is inherently personal, sensory input such as media information can only affect people on the individual level.

hmmm,
you ignore the fact that even a cursory examination of the perception of fashion tells us that humans participate in a collective interpretation of reality... and it doesn't stop at fashion.

Re: Masculinity in the U.S. and the World

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings I am doing a paper for a sociology class on how images of masculinity portrayed by the media hurt the male population, and I was wondering if anybody new any good articles, or even good examples (tv, movies, etc.) that pertain to this topic. Thanks

Ask Orbax... he's the self proclaimed subject matter expert.


[[[smoke]]]

Let me preface this by saying I do not intend to start a flame war. I am definently up for a debate though. I disagree with you to a certain extent, Arbiter. I have a very liberal teacher, and attend a very liberal university, and I do see the inherit bias when the majority of what I learn is social-conflict arguements. However, they are right to a certain extent, although they do take it to far sometimes when blamming many indviduals problems on society.

As for the media negatively influencing males, I think you grossly underestimate just how much is embedded in your subconcious. You should really read some masculinity theories, they may shock you as you may finding them to be describing exactly how you act, as they do for me. The only problem is they always seem to go a step to far as suggesting men should become feminine rather that just better people (and the same can be said of women). I will discuss more later when I have more time.

PM Orbax. What's the prob?


[[[smoke]]]

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Originally posted by Subey hmmm, you ignore the fact that even a cursory examination of the perception of fashion tells us that humans participate in a collective interpretation of reality... and it doesn't stop at fashion.

How can you explain oddities like Michael Jackson and punks then?



Not all humans participate in collective interpertation, therefore participoating in collective interpertation is an individual choice.

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Originally posted by Yoepus How can you explain oddities like Michael Jackson and punks then? Not all humans participate in collective interpertation, therefore participoating in collective interpertation is an individual choice.

Exactly. Not everybody participates in the latest fashions or trends. They only propagate themselves due to a few prevalent traits: the desire to fit in, the desire to emulate some celebrity or celebrities in general (who are really nothing more than pawns to begin with.)

This should not be mistaken with the notion that the perception of these images somehow affects the collective directly. It only affects those parts of the collective that are receptive to the suggestions being made.

Re: Masculinity in the U.S. and the World

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings I am doing a paper for a sociology class on how images of masculinity portrayed by the media hurt the male population, and I was wondering if anybody new any good articles, or even good examples (tv, movies, etc.) that pertain to this topic. Thanks

I would recomend the book "Stiffed: The Betrayal of the American Man" by Susan Faludi. It's perhaps a bit broader than the theme for your paper but it brings a very good discussion about the problems of living up to the masculine-myth of the western society. I think it starts after WWII, with the generation that had to live up to their heroic fathers legacy and then it goes on until late 90's. It's definetly worth a read, even for those of you not writing a paper for sociology class

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Originally posted by kush paintings As for the media negatively influencing males, I think you grossly underestimate just how much is embedded in your subconcious. You should really read some masculinity theories, they may shock you as you may finding them to be describing exactly how you act, as they do for me. The only problem is they always seem to go a step to far as suggesting men should become feminine rather that just better people (and the same can be said of women). I will discuss more later when I have more time.

I'm well aware of many of the popular masculinity theories being advanced within the domain of the so-called "social sciences," the most popular of which appears to be the notion of a "masculinity crisis."

However, I do not share your identification with the men described therein. They seem to be comsumed with a "need to be needed." I possess no such need, as independence ranks high among the virtues I advocate, nor am I particularly interesting in associating with those individuals who do not exhibit a similar independence. I believe that genuinely fulfilling social relationshiops can only exist between independent individuals, rather than the clumping together of people into groups of "friends" to compensate for their insecurities about personal worth. They typically exhibit anti-intellectual tendencies and celebrate the loudest and most obnoxious individuals among them - values which are almost diametrically opposite to mine. Furthermore, many of them seem to be frustrated with their perceived lack of power or influence over their environment especially in relation to women.

They often profess belief that women have an advantage over them in almost every sphere of their lives: personal relationships, career and educational opportunities. Sometimes they complain that women have the ability to advance themselves either by their aptitude, their appearence, or by a combination of the two, whereas men have only their aptitude to work with. In other cases, they espouse the idea that women hold a superior position in social and romantic relationships - suggesting that if they do not acquiesce to the demands and wishes of their significant other then she will simply find another man who will but not believing that they are in a position to make similar demands. I do not share these feelings at all. To me, they are nothing more than an indication of a weak man who has no idea how to make himself stronger.

In case it is not obvious, I not only do not relate to the men described in masculinity theories I've been exposed to, and in fact I actually have a rather large degree of contempt for them. To me, they are weak, disgraceful, and in many ways less-than-human. Not only do they not possess values similar to my own (I could respect that, even if I didn't like it) but they seem to possess no individual values at all, operating like lifeless automata programmed to perpetuate the wealth of the few.

My values are just that: my values. I didn't pull them out of some movie or some book, I didn't base it on the latest hot summer fashions or what some jackass celebrity said, and they aren't the product of some frivolous subconscious belief manifesting itself as an emotion. I believe in physical and mental strength - that one might overcome the greatest number of potential challenges. I believe in discipline, honor, indepedendence, and integrity - to keep one's strength properly focused and maintain good relationships with other strong individuals. I believe in a strong separation of cognitive and emotional functions and a controlled expression of emotion, because emotion, while valuable, is an inherently personal experience and should never be the basis for decisions about how one should act or what one should believe. To me these values are masculine because I am a male, however there is no reason a woman couldn't choose to live in accordance with similar beliefs, and I would encourage that so long as she came to hold those values by a process of critical rational analysis rather than simply accepting them as an article of faith.

I essentially agree with you: both men and women should become better people. But the notion of what constitutes "better" is where I strongly disagree with most of the sociological domga I've been exposed to, and I also disagree that it is a group phenomenon as opposed to a prevalent individual phenomenon. The solution to the "masculinity crisis" and to essentially every problem that sociology deals with is individualism but sociologists don't and never will want to hear it because in that case they're really nothing more than a poor man's psychologist (which is what I would classify them as anwyay, and I'm not even a big advocate of modern psychology.)

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings You should really read some masculinity theories, they may shock you as you may finding them to be describing exactly how you act, as they do for me. The only problem is they always seem to go a step to far as suggesting men should become feminine rather that just better people (and the same can be said of women).

I agree with that. Which, I think is part of the reason why many ppl, especially males, don't take psycology/psycologists seriously. They make alot of good observations but provide ridiculous solutions.

Arbiter, I agree that independence is a good value to have but that does'nt mean that men don't have emotional needs. And having emotional needs doesn't mean you're not independent or weak. Having emotional needs is part of being human.

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Originally posted by Yoepus Not all humans participate in collective interpertation, therefore participoating in collective interpertation is an individual choice.

The collective wants you to recoil in horror when you see the following picture...

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Arbiter, I agree that independence is a good value to have but that does'nt mean that men don't have emotional needs. And having emotional needs doesn't mean you're not independent or weak. Having emotional needs is part of being human.

Emotions are good insofar as enhance and impassion life and its experiences, but when they reach the point of a need or dependence, then I say that it is a weakness and if that is indeed a part of our nature as humans then we should strive to overcome it, not meekly accept it.

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'Why so hard?' the charcoal once said to the diamond; 'for are we not close relations?' Why so soft? O my brothers, thus I ask you: for are you not - my brothers? Why so soft, unresisting, and yielding? Why is there so much denial and abnegation in your hearts? So little fate in your glances? And if you will not be fates, if you will not be inexorable: how can you - conquer with me? For all creators are hard. And it must seem bliss to you to press your hand upon millennia as upon wax, bliss to write upon the will of millennia as upon metal - harder than metal, nobler than metal. Only the noblest is perfectly hard. This new law-table do I put over you, O my brothers: Become hard! -Nietzsche

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Originally posted by Subey The collective wants you to recoil in horror when you see the following picture...

BHAWHAHAH !!! RECOIL! RECOIL!!! I'M RECOILEDD!!!

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Originally posted by Arbiter Emotions are good insofar as enhance and impassion life and its experiences, but when they reach the point of a need or dependence, then I say that it is a weakness and if that is indeed a part of our nature as humans then we should strive to overcome it, not meekly accept it.

Ok a so are you saying that you don't need anyone else? I would say that no-one would like to live totally alone. Further if you live with or don't have any conntact people you don't connect to on some level (emotional?) you will have a very hard and lonely life. No man is an island and all that.

Also what fizzy drink do you drink the most and why?

My bet is on coca cola and the reason you buy it is because of the brand name imprinted on your mind via the media (lets be honest they are all just fizzy water with differnt flavourings and colourings not much difference), when was the last time you tried a new type of fizzy drink which you hadn't seen advertised when you could "just buy a coke".

Hence I think we are all affected by media it just depends on which media sources we tend to value (though pehaps this is a bit arse over tit and maybe we seek out media which conforms to our existing opions most?). In fact I think that given a list of which media (including books, which they openly choose and looking at trends rather than individual items) someone is exposed to you could work out their opinions on pretty much everything.

I was surprised when I read the title. Does it mean that the US is not a part of the world? Is the US of A another planet?

Every source other than yourself is certain to have an effect on you. Of course, you have to let it have an effect. So you have the choice.

A factor that should be payed attention to here is age. The younger generation is more influenced by the media. The older you get, the less likely you'll care about the interesting material the media provides on a daily basis. Of course the are exceptions. There are always exceptions.

So what negative influences is the thread starter talking about? I saw none. List examples becuase I'm too dumb to think of any or perhaps I'm too lazy to help out in this project of yours.

All these films with sex scenes that seemingly last for hours dont do us any good too! As if anyone lasts for longer than three minutes! I'll get me coat...

Negative Influences of Masculine Image:
- Individualism (Before you jump down my neck, I am talking about having few male friends, breaking laws, etc.)
- Violence (Lower Life Expectency is a good proof)
- High Stress
- Most importantly: Fear

My paper will focus mainly on how fear drives males in how the consume, act, basically how they live. There is a quote from Marilyn Manson in Bowling For Columbine

"You're watching television, you're watching the news, you're being pumped full of fear, there's floods, there's AIDS, there's murder, cut to commercial, buy the Acura, buy the Colgate, if you have bad breath they're not going to talk to you, if you have pimples, the girl's not going to fuck you, and it's just this campaign of fear, and consumption, and that's what I think it's all based on, the whole idea of 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume."

Amazing commentary in my opinion. As Arbiter pointed out, however, you can ignore the media, filter out what is being fed to you. This is fine, but this does nothing to combat the fact that in your most fragile years before you know any better images of masculinity are absorbed by your preceptions of television and every day living, and they are embedded in your subconcious, making them far harder to recognize as social constructions (as with you filtering out images currently). You believe these to be your own beliefs, your own values, but really they are those of societies. Your concept of masculinity although may not exactly parrallel our societie's construct of masculinity, it is based around this construct. This process is natural of course, as the transmission of social constructs and norms is what separates us from monkeys. To me, this transmission (masculinity in your subconcious) is obvious, and if this true then you examine the masculine image our society portrays and critique it to decide wether or not it is hurting the male population.

Well perhaps you can go back to the start and wonder why your mother didnt put you in a dress as a little boy........

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Originally posted by Dervish Ok a so are you saying that you don't need anyone else? I would say that no-one would like to live totally alone. Further if you live with or don't have any conntact people you don't connect to on some level (emotional?) you will have a very hard and lonely life. No man is an island and all that.

That is corred, I don't need anyone else. Human social relationships are highly desirable in that they open up a large amount of opportunities for satisfying experiences. However if I were to remove myself from my social relationships, there would be no particularly catastrophic consequences. Therefore, it would be appropriate to categorize it as a "want" rather than a "need."

quote:

Also what fizzy drink do you drink the most and why? My bet is on coca cola and the reason you buy it is because of the brand name imprinted on your mind via the media (lets be honest they are all just fizzy water with differnt flavourings and colourings not much difference), when was the last time you tried a new type of fizzy drink which you hadn't seen advertised when you could "just buy a coke". Hence I think we are all affected by media it just depends on which media sources we tend to value (though pehaps this is a bit arse over tit and maybe we seek out media which conforms to our existing opions most?). In fact I think that given a list of which media (including books, which they openly choose and looking at trends rather than individual items) someone is exposed to you could work out their opinions on pretty much everything.

Probably Wild Cherry Pepsi, but they recently changed their formula and I don't think it was for the better. I've tasted every non-diet carbonated beverage available in my area, including the generic store brands of all nearby grocery stores and created a purchase rotation of the highest quality among them in order to create a strong balance between quality and variety.

I'm not the kind of impulsive buyer that their simple-minded advertising schemes appeal to. Every single purchase I make, no matter how inane, is the result of careful rational analysis.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Negative Influences of Masculine Image: - Individualism (Before you jump down my neck, I am talking about having few male friends, breaking laws, etc.) - Violence (Lower Life Expectency is a good proof) - High Stress - Most importantly: Fear My paper will focus mainly on how fear drives males in how the consume, act, basically how they live. There is a quote from Marilyn Manson in Bowling For Columbine "You're watching television, you're watching the news, you're being pumped full of fear, there's floods, there's AIDS, there's murder, cut to commercial, buy the Acura, buy the Colgate, if you have bad breath they're not going to talk to you, if you have pimples, the girl's not going to fuck you, and it's just this campaign of fear, and consumption, and that's what I think it's all based on, the whole idea of 'keep everyone afraid, and they'll consume."

Perhaps you'd be willing to share the body of evidence from which you've drawn the conclusion that individualism causes crime. I would agree that it tends to cause people to have fewer friends, however I'm unconvinced that this can properly be categorized as a "harm." As someone who has "been there, done that" so to speak, it is my experience that having a small number of close friends is overwhelmingly more satisfying than having a large group of friends who you don't really know that well.

I also have to question the claim that violence is a result of masculine imagery rather than neurochemical/biological traits typically exhibited by males. In any case, I don't see how you can blame the media, given that men around the world were typically far more violent in periods of history where exposure to such media was very limited or nonexistent.

I'm also curious as to your basis for establishing a connection between masculine imagery and high stress. It seems rather counter-intuitive given that women consistently report far higher degrees of stress than men. Even if masculine imagery does cause stress, how can we categorize it as causing "too much" stress as opposed to other stressors? I would assume that you would agree, after all, that some degree of stress is healthy insofar as it motivates us to better ourselves and our surroundings.

Additionally, I'm not sure of the particular relevance of the "campaign of fear" described in your quotation above to the issue of masculinity. It seems to me that women have just as much to fear from floods, AIDS, or murder, and it also appears to me that there are far more products targeted to women than to men which convey messages similar to those described. So while I cannot disagree that the phenomenon exists, I simply don't see any relationship with masculine imagery.

quote:

Amazing commentary in my opinion. As Arbiter pointed out, however, you can ignore the media, filter out what is being fed to you. This is fine, but this does nothing to combat the fact that in your most fragile years before you know any better images of masculinity are absorbed by your preceptions of television and every day living, and they are embedded in your subconcious, making them far harder to recognize as social constructions (as with you filtering out images currently). You believe these to be your own beliefs, your own values, but really they are those of societies. Your concept of masculinity although may not exactly parrallel our societie's construct of masculinity, it is based around this construct. This process is natural of course, as the transmission of social constructs and norms is what separates us from monkeys. To me, this transmission (masculinity in your subconcious) is obvious, and if this true then you examine the masculine image our society portrays and critique it to decide wether or not it is hurting the male population.

As someone who has significant experience proselytizing religious individuals to atheism, I'm very familiar with the strength with which many people cling to those beliefs imparted to them during their developmental years. And you're correct, of course, that my conception of masculinity is indeed based upon society's. That is because the process by which I came to my conception of masculinity began with a critical examination of my pre-existing beliefs and biases. I analyzed each trait which I had previously associated with masculinity and attempted to rationally justify its inclusion. Many traits were very justifiable based on utilitarian principles. Others were not justifiable by any rational means, and as a result I no longer possess those beliefs and opinions. In some cases, new traits were included when they were pointed to logically by the course of the inquiry. And it is precisely by means of this process that my conception of masculinity ceased to be society's and became simply "mine." It was my rational and cognitive faculties which made the determination to retain, add, or remove attributes and behaviors from this conception of masculinity, and therefore the resulting product is inherently personal.

But I do have one last question. Suppose we are in the process of making the decision of whether or not "[the masculine image] is hurting the male population." What criteria must be true in order for us to make the determination that it is indeed hurting the male population? We must recognize, of course, that all men are not simply carbon copies of one another, but individuals with different opinions, beliefs, traits, abilities, and behaviors. As a result, we must also consider the possibility that images which "hurt" one man may "help" another man. At what point can the "male population" be said to be "hurt" by these images? Is it when greater than 50% of the population are adversely affected? If so, how can this be determined without an exhaustive detailed investigation of at least enough individuals to establish a majority? Or need only one person be harmed in order for these images to be hurting the male population? If so, we must consider the possibility that all, or almost all images will hurt the male population. On the other hand, if every single male must be harmed in order for our hypothesis to be validated, then we need only find a single man who is not harmed by masculine image in order to refute our hypothesis.

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