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-- At least Ecuador got it right!

At least Ecuador got it right!

He left on a plane for Brazil today and is now exiled. You think Brazil could send a plane for Paul Martin? As i said, if the shenanigans in Ottawa happened anywhere else the streets would be on fire. In Canada we cant even agree on an election to get rid of him.

quote:

Ecuador president ends state of emergency Defying order not to assemble, thousands called for his ouster Saturday, April 16, 2005 Posted: 7:20 PM EDT (2320 GMT) QUITO, Ecuador (AP) -- Ecuador President Lucio Gutierrez called off a state of emergency in the capital Saturday as thousands defied his ban on demonstrations and demanded his resignation. Gutierrez rescinded the measure less than 24 hours after he imposed it in hopes of stifling a wave of peaceful street protests demanding his ouster. Speaking over national television, Gutierrez said he was annulling the decree, which suspended civil liberties, including the right to free expression and assembly, because he had "obtained the principal objective, which is the dismissal of the Supreme Court" after he dissolved that Friday. Residents of the capital had defied the state of emergency imposed late Friday night, taking to the streets by the thousands and honking horns across the city, demanding that Gutierrez quit. The military, which under the state of emergency was charged with maintaining public order, was not evident on the streets as thousands of people disobeyed the decree and staged a peaceful demonstration, punctuated by the honking horns and shouts of "Lucio Out!" and "Democracy yes, dictatorship, no!" Although they had opposed the court that was stacked by Gutierrez, his political foes immediately labeled its summary dissolution an act of a dictator. Early Saturday morning, the military command went on television to give its implicit support to Gutierrez. Adm. Victor Hug Rosier, head of the armed forces, said the only purpose of the state of emergency was "to recover the order, peace and tranquility lost during the last days." Despite the restriction on public meetings, thousands of residents poured into Quito's streets Friday to protest the measures, shouting that Gutierrez, a former army colonel before his election in 2002, was a dictator. "I want him to go and the congress, too. All the politicians have shown themselves to be corrupt," said Gorge Moor, 43, a civil engineer, accompanied by his 9-year-old daughter, who was waving a small yellow, blue and red Ecuadorean flag. Quito Mayor Paco Moncayo, a retired army general and a leader of the opposition Democratic Left party, criticized the military command for supporting Gutierrez's actions. "The president can't dissolve the court. We are living in a dictatorship and this decree unmasks the dictatorship," he said. "We are calling for civil disobedience." Street protests began Wednesday in response to an impromptu suggestion of a local radio station that residents of Quito form a nocturnal pot-banging caravan. They increased in numbers until at least 10,000 people -- banging pots and sticks and shouting "Get out, Lucio!" -- were marching in the streets as Gutierrez made his announcement Friday. The court crisis was set in motion in November when the former justices sided with opposition politicians in a failed effort to impeach Gutierrez on corruption charges. Gutierrez then assembled a bloc of 52 lawmakers in the 100-seat unicameral congress, which voted in December to remove the judges. Legal experts said the vote ran contrary to Ecuador's constitution. Opponents say Gutierrez cut a deal with former President Abdala Bucaram to stack the Supreme Court and clear Bucaram of corruption charges as payback for key votes Bucaram's political party provided last year blocking the impeachment drive against Gutierrez in congress. The court cleared Bucaram of the charges and he returned to Ecuador earlier this month after eight years in exile. In a bid to ease the political backlash, in late March Gutierrez proposed a judicial reform that would replace the new court and establish new methods for selecting judges. The legislature has not acted on the proposal. Gutierrez was elected president in November 2002 after campaigning as a populist, anti-corruption reformer. But his left-leaning constituency soon fell apart after he instituted austerity measures, including cutting subsidies on food and cooking fuel, to satisfy lenders like the International Monetary Fund

stacking the court with government friendly judges and corruption allegations.. sound familiar?

OMG dood....your really infatuated with Paul Martin aren't you?










Dood, you need to get laid or something cuz I don't think Paul Martin can reciprocate this same kinda love towards you






j/k

LOL

But ont he serious side im just afraid of this country turning into a third world country. And its very possible in the current direction that we are headed.

And its pretty bad when a third world country can take care of their corruption yet we cant.

so how much money are talking about...how much did PM or whoever steal?

all i know is that the gomery inquiry is costing more than the scandal was. the liberals should be paying back everything in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by dc ajaxs all i know is that the gomery inquiry is costing more than the scandal was.

that doesnt really matter tho, the important is that we get to know what actually happend, and get the ones responsible for this mess somewhere else that is not on a hill (unless there is a prison on a hill somewhere? )

That said i wouldnt compare canada's corruption with that in ecuador

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew That said i wouldnt compare canada's corruption with that in ecuador

I would... its the same exact thing. Sadly our politics as of late ARE comparible to a third world country. Thats what infuriates me. What pisses me off even more is how no one here seems to care.

Re: At least Ecuador got it right!

quote:

[i][b]stacking the court with government friendly judges and corruption allegations.. sound familiar?

Jayx, every government has done this and it will continue so long as judges are government appointed. The other option would be to elect judges, however, that results in a very instable and ununiform judiciary as seen in the US. Or perhaps have the provincial bar associations be delegated the duty of appointing judges, that may work but it is hardly democratic. Regardles, please do not suggest that this is unique to any party and/or would not continue under the governance of any other party. Such a position would show an astonishing amount of ignorance to the political reality of this country.

Moreover, if you are suggesting with this thread that Mr. Martin should be exiled I think you're not thinking clearly. First, he has not been charged criminally let alone convicted. Second, political exile is not something that we practice in this country. Third, our constitution would not allow such a thing. Finally, Chretien was the leader of the party when the sponsorship program began and operated, if anyone should be held responsible as a representative of the Liberal Party it should be him.

Im not suggesting we oust him. The point of posting that article is to demonstrate the extremity as to which some countries deal with politicians who behave very similar to ours. Yet here we can't even decide on an election to try and kick them out of office. We are the xomplete extreme opposite from what ecuador has done. What is best is somewhere in the middle.

The least we can do is punish these crooks but booting them out democratically. But like i said, if these shaninigans in Ottawa took place even in most parts of Europe there would be massive demonstrations and the prime minister would have no choice but to resign or call an election.

the reason im asking was that i heard it was some absurdly small figure, like $190,000.
graft is graft and it not forgiveable, im from pakistan successive democratically elected governments have stolen billions so my patience with money swindling public represetatives is quite low.
but this is canada 1) a 'first word' nation (whatever that means), 2) a rich nation and this makes me think:

190,000 is too low a figure in a rich country like this where corruption is such a big deal, and actually propely investigated. the risk is waay too much for the payoff. there has to be more money involved.

theres always someone willing to break to social contract, if the price is right. 190,000 is waaay below market price, at least in canada.

but if this is it, i dont know, i bet more money gets siphoned away at uoft(did any one read about the amount of money lost in the stock market), or in tax evasion by a single company.

what do u think?

quote:

Originally posted by tamk a 'first word' nation (whatever that means)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_world

^^^

AdScam alone was $100,000,000.

JudgeScam is worse because money can always be repaid, but it will be more difficult to restore faith in the justice system.

There are other scandals waiting in the wing as well (including, but not limited to: EarnscliffeGate, the Canadian Oil-for-Food scandel, etc.).


Plus, don't forget mismanagement of funds: $1 billion lost in HRDC (possibly embezzeled), $1 billion gun registry, $9 billion in hidden foundations, etc.

yes i thought that 190000 was a bit low

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf Plus, don't forget mismanagement of funds: $1 billion lost in HRDC (possibly embezzeled), $1 billion gun registry, $9 billion in hidden foundations, etc.

There was never a billion lost in the HRDC scandal, although the media never really wants to report this (since they were the ones that blew it out of proportion in the first place), and the Conservatives certainly won't either.

There was a lot of sloppy paperwork and incomplete files, but when everything was brought back into order, the total amount unaccounted for was only in the thousands of dollars, not a billion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 LOL But ont he serious side im just afraid of this country turning into a third world country. And its very possible in the current direction that we are headed. And its pretty bad when a third world country can take care of their corruption yet we cant.

fuk all that stuff and just live life man. u probably wouldnt even notice then that anything is changing so you wont have to worry too much

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 LOL But ont he serious side im just afraid of this country turning into a third world country. And its very possible in the current direction that we are headed. And its pretty bad when a third world country can take care of their corruption yet we cant.

Canada is pretty fukin far away from becoming a 3rd world country...

If anything, this transition would take a long long LONG time

What u r seeing are just a few more flaws in the institutions that we have put into place to regulate society... This things have been happeing since the beggining, shouldnt be news to u.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 LOL But ont he serious side im just afraid of this country turning into a third world country. And its very possible in the current direction that we are headed. And its pretty bad when a third world country can take care of their corruption yet we cant.

if you think that exiling a leader is going to "take care" of all of the corruption there...well...you get the big from me, lol.

your statements continue to be ridiculous...Canada is hardly on a path to becoming a third world country...keep the exaggerated rhetoric coming though!

What's getting ridiculous is the handcuffing of the gov't by opposition threats...so Martin has now cancelled an appearance at the 60th anniversary of Canada's aid to Holland in WWII...out of fear that the opposition will try to force an election in his absence.

but I suppose you'll say that Martin shouldn't waste his time with such visits anyway...

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT What's getting ridiculous is the handcuffing of the gov't by opposition threats...so Martin has now cancelled an appearance at the 60th anniversary of Canada's aid to Holland in WWII...out of fear that the opposition will try to force an election in his absence.

For shame!

^^^

Paul Martin is the Prime Minister, not the President, of Canada. He is an officer of Parliament and has no role outside of Parliamant. Parliament is indeed where he should be to vote and answer questions.

The proper representative is our Queen, Elizabeth II.

And the opposition is not preventing him from going.

Anyway, if Martin cared about the military, why did the Lieberals cut so much money out of it? As Finance Minister, Martin defunded the military, to the point where it's barely functioning. Now THAT'S shameful.

quote:

Originally posted by tamk the reason im asking was that i heard it was some absurdly small figure, like $190,000. graft is graft and it not forgiveable, im from pakistan successive democratically elected governments have stolen billions so my patience with money swindling public represetatives is quite low. but this is canada 1) a 'first word' nation (whatever that means), 2) a rich nation and this makes me think: 190,000 is too low a figure in a rich country like this where corruption is such a big deal, and actually propely investigated. the risk is waay too much for the payoff. there has to be more money involved. theres always someone willing to break to social contract, if the price is right. 190,000 is waaay below market price, at least in canada. but if this is it, i dont know, i bet more money gets siphoned away at uoft(did any one read about the amount of money lost in the stock market), or in tax evasion by a single company. what do u think?

190,00? In Ecuador maybe

Try 250 million (if you are talking about canada)

quote:

Originally posted by nycionx fuk all that stuff and just live life man. u probably wouldnt even notice then that anything is changing so you wont have to worry too much

Actually I have in fact noticed things changing. How many people go out during the week now as compared to the 90s?

Why dont they? More overworked and underpaid than ever?

When my dad was my age he had 2 cars, a house and a cottage. And he was an average dude in an average job. Tell me thats average in today's canada?

Things have really gone downhill. The only reason we dont notice it yet is because most of us are living off of last generation's wealth.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT but I suppose you'll say that Martin shouldn't waste his time with such visits anyway...

Exactly... stick to governing and send some vets in his place instead who will really appreciate it.

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