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Canada could soon be gone
http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Colum...01/1020973.html
Separatism fought on two fronts
Even Clarity Act may not save Canada if Liberals win another election
By Licia Corbella -- Calgary Sun
Virtually every time Canada's near-brush with separation in 1995 is mentioned on television, the film clip of choice shows that now-famous enormous Canadian flag being moved along by eager helping hands belonging to a passionate pro-Canadian sea of humanity in Montreal.
More than 150,000 people from across the country crammed into Place du Canada for what was called both the Unity Rally and the Crusade for Canada.
It was a spontaneous outpouring of affection for Quebec by the Rest of Canada.
At one point, I was caught, quite by accident, face-to-face and chest-to-chest with our then-justice minister Allan Rock. It happened quite by accident that Rock and I found ourselves pressed together like hormonal teenagers at a school dance.
While it was an embarrassing position to be in, I decided to seize the moment and get a quote from Rock, though because of the crush of humanity it was difficult to pull out my tape recorder from my pocket.
I don't remember what he said then, but I do remember what happened.
Just as I managed to pull out my tape recorder, the enormous Canadian flag was being passed overhead.
It was so large it darkened the day, but it lightened my spirit.
It was a magical moment -- one I'll never forget -- and not because it was dark and I was nuzzled up close to Allan Rock.
I remember freeing my other arm to reach up and touch our flag and Rock did, too.
We were all keenly aware that within three days of that rally, our country could cease to exist and our flag would lose some of its meaning.
None of us, however, knew at the time just how close it would come.
Some 49.4% of Quebecers voted Oui for sovereignty and 50.6% voted Non on that fright night on the Eve of Halloween in 1995.
And now, thanks to the Liberal government's cynical and criminal response to that near-breakup of our country, the separatist cause that was on life-support just months ago, has been revived and is healthier than it's been in seven years.
Support for sovereignty in Quebec broke through the 50% barrier to its highest level since 1998 last week amid growing controversy over the sponsorship scandal, according to a Leger Marketing survey.
Of the 1,008 people polled, it showed 54% of decided respondents were willing to support sovereignty in a referendum that offered an economic and political partnership with the rest of Canada -- the same question asked in the Oct. 30, 1995 referendum.
Previous polls over the past year asking similar questions had support for sovereignty between 44% and 49%.
But therein lies the big lie.
Thanks to the Clarity Act -- which was created by Preston Manning and Stephen Harper -- and eventually adopted by Jean Chretien, unclear questions can not be asked again.
This is the question that was used in the last referendum on sovereignty: "Do you agree that Quebec should become sovereign, after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership, within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Quebec and the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?"
Huh?
Some 30% of soft-sovereigntists who said they voted "yes" all those years ago admitted they believed a yes vote would simply mean Quebec would negotiate a better deal within Confederation -- that they would continue to use Canadian passports, receive Canadian pensions and send MPs to Ottawa. In effect, 30% of the yes vote was clearly delusional.
In this recent poll, 56% of those who said they supported "sovereignty" believed Quebec would remain a part of Canada should the yes side win next time around.
Again, totally delusional.
What's needed is a clear question like: Do you want Quebec to separate from Canada, forming its own independent country?
Yes or no.
The number would plummet.
What is more troubling to me, however, is the growing separatist sentiment here in Alberta. I see it in letters to the editor, at functions and in phone calls.
In response to the troubling poll out of Quebec, Martin said everything from the rejection of the U.S. missile project, to the creation of a national child-care program, the adoption of the Kyoto accord, and a parental-leave agreement with Quebec, are proof that the province's priorities are being heard.
And those very things prove that Albertans remain ignored.
As a staunch federalist, who chokes up every time I hear our national anthem, this is my fear: Should the federal Liberals win the upcoming election (and new poll numbers indicated they might) -- despite the volumes of proof of incompetence, poor policy decisions, corruption and even criminal activity -- Albertans will throw up their hands in disgust that their values are never reflected by Ontarians, who continuously decide our fate.
Should a strong separatist leader emerge in Alberta (and I believe one is emerging) -- someone who is eloquent and not a quack -- it's my fear that Albertans would vote overwhelmingly in favour of separation from an Ontario-run Canada, even with a clear question.
Not even one of those big flags -- or another Liberal sponsorship program -- could save this country then.
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary...95316-9424r.htm
Fragmentation to the North?
By Austin Bay
Published April 29, 2005
A political specter haunts North America -- the specter of the world's next failed state.
We can still call it Canada, at least for a couple years. And who knows, like news of Mark Twain's demise, my cheeky pessimism may be greatly exaggerated. Our northern neighbor's polyglot populace of beer drinkers, peaceniks, Mounties and socialists may yet dump their crooked politicians and craft a new, more robust deal with Quebecois separatists.
If you don't know about Canada's crooked politicians, you're not alone. Democracy and free speech are breaking out in Beirut, but they're both taking a beating in Ontario. The Canadian government has a press clamp on an investigation into the ruling Liberal Party's "Adscam" kickback scheme. A "judicial publication ban" is the term. It may soon rank with the Watergate rhetoric like "modified limited hang-out." Canadian Prime Minister and Liberal Party leader Paul Martin is implicated in the Adscam fiasco, and he's starting to look like the northland's Richard Nixon.
In the Internet Age, clamps and bans crack quickly, and the Liberals have seen their popular support go poof. A U.S. Web site (www.********************.com), run by Minnesotan Ed Morrissey, started posting leaked statements from the judicial hearings. The Web site instantly became Radio Free Canada and Deep Throat combined, with hundreds of thousands of Canadians going online to read the damning evidence. Now Canadian newspapers are on the story, but it's another case of major media following the Internet's lead. On his Web site, Mr. Morrisey sums up Canada's Adscam as "transfers of cash to the Liberal Party as part of the money-laundering effort."
Linda Seebach of the Rocky Mountain News, in a column about Mr. Morrissey's coda of Watergate's Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein, observed there's "hardly any coverage of what the Canadians call 'AdScam' in the U.S. press, although something that could cause the Canadian government to fall ought to be of interest to that country's southern neighbor."
But "federal" Canada remains an iffy proposition, and becomes iffier as the separatist Parti Quebecois (PQ) gains political clout at the expense of the corrupt Liberals.
Bewitched by a Never Land notion of a francophone French Quebec freed from the yoke of "English-speaking" Canada, the PQ radicals regard themselves as culturally unique, prime ethnic candidates for their own nation-state and United Nations seat. It's not a new concept. Charles de Gaulle, in a 1967 act of French unilateralism, gave Canadians the jitters when he quipped, "Vive Quebec libre."
What happens to Canada if Quebec secedes? Canadians are once again pondering this question -- live on the CBC -- and since Canada is America's No. 1 trading partner and continental neighbor, U.S. citizens should consider the ramifications.
Canadians in the western and maritime provinces already dread the political power of populous Ontario. (Quebec serves as a political balance to Ontario.) If Quebec bids adieu, "remnant" Canada's political rules will be subject to revision. Subsequent regional bickering could lead to further fragmentation.
What might a grand Canadian breakup look like? Jim Dunnigan and I, in the 1991 edition of "A Quick and Dirty Guide to War," speculatively redrew Canada's political map.
Here's a thumbnail sketch: Say Quebec becomes a separate European-style nation-state -- a "people" with cultural, linguistic, religious and historical identity (never mind the objections of Mohawk and Cree Indians in Quebec). Quebec has the people and resources to make a go of it, though the economic price for its egotism will be stiff. British Columbia also has "nation-state" assets: access to the sea, strong industrial base, raw materials and an educated population.
Oil-producing Alberta might join the United States and instantly find common political ground with Alaska, Louisiana, Texas and Oklahoma. Canada's struggling Atlantic provinces might find statehood economically attractive and extend the New England coastline. A rump Canada consisting of "Greater Ontario" -- with remaining provinces as appendages -- might keep the Maple Leaf flag aloft. As for poor, isolated Newfoundland: Would Great Britain like to reacquire a North American colony?
Austin Bay is a nationally syndicated columnist.
Liberals give separatists kiss of life again
The Liberals did not respect their engagement in renewing the Federation after the referendum scare.
What is needed is that the Federal govt backs off from provincial jurisdictions guaranteed by the constitution and there will be less problems and less bitching from everyone especially Quebec.
^That would be very interesting, as IIRC, education and health care is also suppose to be within provincial jurisdiction.
For some reason I don't think a lot of Canadians would want that.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by EvilTree ^That would be very interesting, as IIRC, education and health care is also suppose to be within provincial jurisdiction. For some reason I don't think a lot of Canadians would want that. |
The West's separatist warning
Poll finds 35% of Westerners think splitting from Canada should be explored
Cathy Gulli
National Post
More than one-third of Westerners younger than 30 think their provinces should consider quitting Canada, showing the strongest support for sovereignty among all ages, a recent poll reveals.
Fully 36.4% of people between 18 and 29 in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba agree "Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country."
The sentiment is not exclusive to youth.
Across all age groups, 35.6% of Westerners favour debating sovereignty.
Albertans lead with 41.9% support, compared to 31.9% in Saskatchewan, 30.8% in British Columbia, and 27.5% in Manitoba.
"Westerners are very frustrated with their position in Confederation," said Faron Ellis, a political science professor at Lethbridge Community College, who conducted the poll for Western Standard magazine.
He warns that, at a time when Canada is not facing a major national crisis, this level of dissatisfaction could be a sign of worse things to come.
''There's really nothing aside from the ongoing institutionalized grievances to be angry about, and for the most part in all four provinces the economy is going fairly well,'' Mr. Ellis said.
''Canadians across the country should be aware that if these are the bedrock levels of frustration without a crisis, the next crisis [will have] Westerners at least debating the concept,'' he added.
Even though most young people were not alive during divisive political crises such as the National Energy Program, "they register among the highest levels of support for discussing independence," Mr. Ellis said.
Mr. Ellis believes young people are aware of both modern and historical difficulties affecting the West.
"They hear from their parents. They hear it daily on the streets. They know about current injustices. When federal issues come up, this group sees themselves outside of the debate, their opinions marginalized," Mr. Ellis said.
Gerald Baier, a University of British Columbia professor of political science, said young people are more likely to support the idea of sovereignty because they are often more open-minded than older generations.
"The question doesn't ask them to state support for the idea of sovereignty but for the idea of exploring it. Why shouldn't you look into all ideas? It might even be a matter of idealism," Mr. Baier added.
The poll also shows 64% of Westerners think Prime Minister Paul Martin is doing a poor job of ending Western alienation.
Another 40.4% say that if the Liberal party wins the next election they will be more in favour of exploring independence.
Mr. Ellis believes these Westerners feel they have exhausted every possible solution to improve their standing in Ottawa, citing the failures of the Reform and Canadian Alliance parties to gain power.
"It's hard for any new party in Canada to do well," Mr. Baier said.
The Western Canada Concept Party registered with Elections Canada 25 years ago with a platform calling for separation of the four Western provinces, but never came close to electing an MP.
Neither have the Separation Party of Alberta or the Western Independence Party of Saskatchewan managed to win more than marginal popular votes in recent years.
Doug Christie, the free speech lawyer for Holocaust deniers Jim Keegstra and Ernst Zundel who co-founded the Western Canada Concept, announced in January the formation of yet another separatist party, the Western Block. Anne McLellan, deputy prime minister at the time, disputed any hopes for this federal party, saying, "I don't think Mr. Christie will find a very welcoming audience in this province, in Newfoundland or anywhere else for his separatist rhetoric," she said.
Bruce Hutton, leader of the Alberta separatist party, told the Western Standard: "One of the things that makes separation a hard sell is that we have to get people to think of the future, not the present, to sell our message."
Despite Western frustration, Mr. Baier said, to voters there "these parties have been perceived as fringe parties."
Mr. Ellis said the dissatisfaction felt among residents of these provinces runs deep, and should be taken seriously.
The poll was conducted by telephone between June 29 and July 5, 2005, and involved 1,448 randomly selected Western residents.
The margin of error was plus or minus 2.6%, 19 times out of 20.
� National Post 2005
Paul Martin's choice for Governor General is a citizen of a foreign country (France), AND a Quebec separatist.
The Lieberals are destroying Canada.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...Story/National/
Separatist says �Come clean, Jean'
By NELSON WYATT
Thursday, August 11, 2005 Updated at 6:47 PM EDT
Canadian Press
Montreal � An outspoken Quebec sovereigntist wants governor-general-designate Micha�lle Jean to say how she voted in the 1995 referendum.
The call comes after an article in a sovereigntist publication that says she and her husband supported Quebec independence and that Ms. Jean's spouse, filmmaker Jean-Daniel Lafond, was friendly with former Quebec terrorists.
�In the nationalist circles, many people were sure that Mme. Jean and her husband were sovereigntists, many persons believed that,� said Gilles Rheaume, president of the Quebec-based organization against Canadian corruption and propaganda and a former president of the Soci�t� St-Jean Baptiste.
Mr. Rheaume said Thursday that Prime Minister Paul Martin should have checked Ms. Jean's credentials more carefully and called him �an amateur to name a person who many believe is a sovereigntist, to name this person head of state.�
He has written to Ms. Jean asking how she voted in Quebec's 1995 sovereignty referendum, which federalists won by a razor-thin majority.
�We believe the people of Canada and the people of Quebec have the right to know,� Mr. Rheaume said, although he acknowledged he isn't holding his breath for a reply.
But Transport Minister Jean Lapierre, who co-founded the sovereigntist Bloc Qu�b�cois before returning to the Liberals under Mr. Martin, said Ms. Jean was nominated for her strong qualities.
�Madame Jean is not a sovereigntist,� Mr. Lapierre said at a news conference in Laval, north of Montreal.
�If there are old friends who want to trip her up, unfortunately, I hope that she won't consider them any longer as friends,� he said.
�Now the political convictions of her husband will be for her to answer to.�
A spokesman for Ms. Jean referred calls to Mr. Martin's office.
Martin spokesman Scott Reid said Ms. Jean, a well-known broadcaster in Quebec, and Mr. Lafond are committed Canadians who are the victims of a smear campaign.
�To suggest that Mr. Lafond's documentary on the FLQ crisis makes him a separatist sympathizer is to suggest that Ken Burns' documentary on the Civil War makes him a Confederate secessionist,� Mr. Reid said. �It's absurd.
�What is taking place here is nothing more complicated than a smear campaign by hardline separatists who see Mme. Jean's appointment as a threat.
�She has struck a chord across Canada and in Quebec, particularly. And it is sad and ugly and terribly dispiriting that this kind of thing takes place.�
The controversy arose after the release of an article in Le Qu�b�cois, the voice of the province's sovereignty watchdogs, said sovereigntists were disappointed by Ms. Jean's appointment as Adrienne Clarkson's replacement in September because Ms. Jean and Mr. Lafond were considered sympathetic to the cause.
It also noted the couple had renovations done to their home library by Jacques Rose, a former member of the Front de liberation du Quebec, who is now a contractor.
Mr. Rose served eight years as an accessory after the fact in the kidnap and murder of provincial cabinet minister Pierre Laporte in the 1970 October Crisis.
Mr. Lafond, who was born in France, met a number of former FLQ members when he worked on the 1994 National Film Board documentary, La Libert� en colere.
He co-wrote the film with Francis Simard, another FLQ member who was given early parole in 1982 after being sentenced to life for his role in killing Mr. Laporte, who was strangled and found in the trunk of an abandoned taxi.
During a visit to Montreal, Conservative Leader Stephen Harper only said Mr. Martin may have some questions to answer about Ms. Jean's appointment.
Jean Dorion, the president of the Soci�t� St-Jean Baptiste's Montreal branch, said few people know Ms. Jean's political leanings but �as far as Mr. Lafond is concerned, everything I hear about him is that he was a strong pro-independentiste.�
Mr. Dorion said he believed Mr. Martin is trying to �seduce� parts of Quebec with a twist on the scandal-plagued sponsorship program then-prime minister Jean Chr�tien used to promote Canadian unity.
�It's a more sophisticated kind of sponsorship program,� he said. �It's not as gross. In the sponsorship program you also had a few convinced independentistes getting money from the federal government and working for the independentiste movement.
�In this case, it's more subtle, more complicated but it's the same kind of process,� he said. �You know, in Quebec a lot of people work on both sides. It's strange but that's the way it is.�
He cited the case of Quebec sovereigntist entertainers who take advantage of federal funding programs.
Mr. Dorion said Mr. Lafond will likely deny any sovereigntist links but �there is always a doubt that will linger in people's minds.�
| quote: |
| Originally posted by ShadoWolf The West's separatist warning Poll finds 35% of Westerners think splitting from Canada should be explored Cathy Gulli National Post The sentiment is not exclusive to youth. Across all age groups, 35.6% of Westerners favour debating sovereignty. Albertans lead with 41.9% support, compared to 31.9% in Saskatchewan, 30.8% in British Columbia, and 27.5% in Manitoba. "Westerners are very frustrated with their position in Confederation," said Faron Ellis, a political science professor at Lethbridge Community College, who conducted the poll for Western Standard magazine. |
that poll is bs... western standard, what a joke.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Matt am I the only one that sees a problem there? |
Considering that the left-wing sources never even bother to ask for Western Canada's opinion on anything of importance (that's the whole point here, for christ's sake!), where else are we going to find that information other than "right-wing" sources?
Instead of the constant hand-waving and dismissal of "biased" sources, why don't you actually do some research to find out if those "biased" sources might be correct? I know quite a few people from Alberta and most of them are singing the same tune. It's disgusting how they contribute more than any other province to this country's economy (not that their contribution is exactly voluntary) and receive nothing in return.
Alberta, Quebec, and Ontario should all separate from Canada and form their own country (or countries). Let the other provinces figure out a way to keep their welfare systems running.
Now here's a question.
Is the problem existant because of Canada's vast geography or because of incompetent government?
Now before answering that, think of some other large country like...oh...the U.S.
They have 50 states and do they have as much internal squabbling as we do??? 
It's sad really....
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Is the problem existant because of Canada's vast geography or because of incompetent government? |
| quote: |
| They have 50 states and do they have as much internal squabbling as we do??? |
this is idiocy. It discusts me the fact that people from a province of Canada would want to seperate. Think of it this way back in the Great war and WW2 shit like this was not even in the picture. Soldiers from all over Canada fought and died together as one country. What is the purpose of seperation. Do they actually think that they are better off???
Lieberal polices over the past 45 years created the separatist problem. Here's the solution:
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Politic...1330536-cp.html
Stem separatist threat by revamping federal transfers to provinces: Harper
By SUE BAILEY
QUEBEC (CP) - Stephen Harper says the best way to keep Quebec in Canada is to end a sorry era of federal corruption and meddling in provincial affairs.
The Conservative leader repeatedly blamed Liberal arrogance and administrative rot on Monday for revving the engines of separatism. If elected, the Conservative leader says he would quickly meet with premiers to discuss ending the so-called fiscal imbalance. He would also move to forge what he called a Charter of Open Federalism to better stake out provincial turf.
It's a message Harper hopes will resonate in a province that is electoral tundra for frozen-out Conservatives.
Bloc Quebecois Leader Gilles Duceppe has long scored political points here by saying Ottawa doesn't transfer enough cash to Quebec in yearly equalization payments.
The money helps to spread national wealth among have-and have-not provinces.
Ontario, meanwhile, says it pays too much into the redistribution fund but doesn't get enough back in government services.
"I think you have to face the fact that Ottawa is rolling in tens of billions of dollars in surpluses - most of it hidden for years - at the same time as provinces and municipalities are having trouble meeting essential core services without going into debt," Harper told a news conference.
He took several shots at Liberal Leader Paul Martin for not acting sooner to stem the sponsorship scandal.
The Tory leader also lambasted his chief political rival for the fact that he "hasn't even recognized the existence of the fiscal imbalance."
Harper was short on specifics, but said provinces should have more powers to tax and spend in their areas of jurisdiction.
"I want to find a long-term solution not just to solve the problem but also to end the annual pilgrimage of premiers and mayors to Ottawa for financing," he said. "I don't think that's the way to run a federation."
Should Quebec be treated differently in a revamped system?
"I believe in general that we should treat all Canadians similarly," Harper said.
"I think the truth is, the province of Quebec is looking for powers and arrangements that other provinces may not want."
This is especially true when it comes to language and culture, Harper said, proposing that Quebec play a role in international bodies such as UNESCO, the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization.
He is also open to "incremental" changes to the Constitution - including the thorny issue of Quebec exclusion - but does not want to bog the country down in full-scale reform a la Meech Lake, he stressed.
Any changes would be piecemeal depending on consensus among provinces, Harper said.
The Conservative leader brought his campaign for the second time to Quebec where his party is all but eclipsed by the surging Bloc Quebecois and waning Liberals.
Harper must change that if he is ever to truly head a national party.
His speech to the Quebec Chamber of Commerce was interrupted by a protester who shouted at him to do more to improve social housing.
Harper said he would consider it - but without trampling on provincial jurisdiction, he added without missing a beat.
Upstairs in the hotel pub, the woman tending bar said Harper has his work cut out for him.
"Conservatives are not popular here at all," said the ardent Bloc supporter.
"This is all for nothing," she said of the election in general, predicting very much the same results as in 2004. "Me, I don't like politics."
Harper's quest for votes will shift Tuesday to Southern Ontario, another battleground where he must improve his showing if he is to have a chance at forming a government.
The Tory leader was to kick off his swing by visiting the Cabbagetown Boxing Club and Youth Centre in Toronto, which made its name as the training ground for Shawn O'Sullivan, an Olympic silver medallist in 1984.
Harper planned to use the centre as a backdrop to address the hot-button issue of youth crime.
He has scoffed at Liberal plans to ban handguns and maintains the answers are crime prevention and tougher penalties for gun and drug offences. Harper says he would also bolster programs aimed at keeping young people out of the gangs and drug warfare that fuel much of the violence.
Thanks for hightlighting the liberal bashing parts. It helped my meager mind realize how awful they are. 
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Time2Burn Thanks for hightlighting the liberal bashing parts. It helped my meager mind realize how awful they are. |
Conservatives never seem to accept blame for anything.
I say it's 50/50. Yes the Liberals failed miserably politically the last few years. But the Conservatives failed to elect a respected leader who fails to get any presence in Quebec.
I'm not affiliated with any party, but from what I've been reading in the posts, 90% of what I have read from Conservative supporters is Liberal-bashing. I simply do not see enough effort from the Concervatives to promote themselves here or in Quebec in a positive manner. As the Liberals were failing in Quebec, the Conservatives should have taken that opportunity to get the lost voters's support.
Actually, Harper is starting to make some noise in Quebec. Not much, nor will Conservatives get a lot of votes, but there is some effort.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Abercrombie Conservatives never seem to accept blame for anything. I say it's 50/50. |
| quote: |
| I'm not affiliated with any party, but from what I've been reading in the posts, 90% of what I have read from Conservative supporters is Liberal-bashing. I simply do not see enough effort from the Concervatives to promote themselves here or in Quebec in a positive manner. As the Liberals were failing in Quebec, the Conservatives should have taken that opportunity to get the lost voters's support. |
Your argument's strength is diminished every time you use the word 'Lieberal'.
Make your point without name-calling.
Can't do it?
Hmm...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Wurm Your argument's strength is diminished every time you use the word 'Lieberal'. Make your point without name-calling. Can't do it? Hmm... |
So I can't use 'Fiberals' or 'Con-servatives' or 'New Dummycrats'?
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