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discrimination

If official segregation and racial discrimination are illegal, how come racial hierarchy persists in the U.S. despite signs of individual mobility?

definitely white power!

Re: discrimination

quote:

Originally posted by stk If official segregation and racial discrimination are illegal, how come racial hierarchy persists in the U.S. despite signs of individual mobility?

"...despite signs of individual mobility"?
What kind of statement is that??
Sounds like someone trying to confuse a 5 yr old because it certainly is a ludicrious deduction to "racial hierarchy".

The very manner in which "racial hierarchy" is written makes "racial hierarchy" more of a statement than the question it is trying to fit into; it's a loaded question in short.
"Racial hierarchy" is a written as a forgone conclusion when clearly it biases the question from the start.

But I will answer with this: racial hierarchy only exists in the minds of those people that preceive it to be. It is a far, far stretch to compare "racial hierarchy" and say, "municipal demographics" which I think the original question was trying to ascertain.
I would consider one a cerebral division and the other physical.

Don't be hung by the tongue because one day, you'll begin to believe it...

Race doesn't objectively exist. Therefore, racial hierarchy cannot objectively exist. The only racial hierarchy that can exist is one inside your mind.

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter Race doesn't objectively exist. Therefore, racial hierarchy cannot objectively exist. The only racial hierarchy that can exist is one inside your mind.

race exists insofar as it is a social and cultural construct and can indeed effect the creation of certain race-based hierarchical relationships.

racial hierarchies, or more appropriately, racial discrimination, continue to persist for a myriad of reasons, the most obvious being the promotion of the meritocratic ethic of "equality of opportunity" at the expense of the more practical and communal-minded "equality of access." buttressing this larger issue of a lack of "access," are smaller, but no less relevant, points regarding white privilege, national history, social and cultural tenets, and of course, the almost atavistic tendency to associate "black" with "bad."

quote:

Originally posted by Konijn race exists insofar as it is a social and cultural construct and can indeed effect the creation of certain race-based hierarchical relationships. racial hierarchies, or more appropriately, racial discrimination, continue to persist for a myriad of reasons, the most obvious being the promotion of the meritocratic ethic of "equality of opportunity" at the expense of the more practical and communal-minded "equality of access." buttressing this larger issue of a lack of "access," are smaller, but no less relevant, points regarding white privilege, national history, social and cultural tenets, and of course, the almost atavistic tendency to associate "black" with "bad."

This still doesn't answer how "white privildge" has any relevance to today's society.
This kind of thinking was already paid for with many lives; lest we forget.

I just can't picture how "equality of opportunity" can be the cause of such divisions.
If anything it should simply separate those with the testicular fortitude to succeed (regardless of race, creed or religion...) from those sloths would believe they have a right to leech from society and that the world somehow owes them with no reciprocity.
This type of impoverished, contrariwise reasoning tends to reverberate as a social mantra in some circles until the time comes when it hits a resonance with their soul and they actually begin to believe there is no other way.

"Equality of opportunity" is a mental gap about 7 inches across the ears...

quote:

Originally posted by Konijn race exists insofar as it is a social and cultural construct and can indeed effect the creation of certain race-based hierarchical relationships. racial hierarchies, or more appropriately, racial discrimination, continue to persist for a myriad of reasons, the most obvious being the promotion of the meritocratic ethic of "equality of opportunity" at the expense of the more practical and communal-minded "equality of access." buttressing this larger issue of a lack of "access," are smaller, but no less relevant, points regarding white privilege, national history, social and cultural tenets, and of course, the almost atavistic tendency to associate "black" with "bad."

You're missing the point. "Race" does exist as a cultural construct, but in modern "multicultural" society this construct has no universality and, therefore, no utility for measuring the balance of wealth or influence within society as a whole from anything greater than the individual or group-of-like-minded-people perspective.

The existence of the concept itself seems to me to be more damaging than beneficial, so it definitely ought not to be legitmized by a government genuinely working in the interests of its people.

Many people will face inequities based on their upbringing and heritage, but it has nothing to do with race. A black child, born in the modern US, is - ceteris paribus - not likely to end up any worse off financially than a white child. Therefore - as Arbiter said - race is no basis upon which to measure (or excuse, rather) "the (im)balance of wealth or influence within society".

It is, however, an inescapable fact that wealth is cyclical and readily propagated along hereditary lines almost as well-defined as those of race. Rich parents will give birth to rich children drowned in opportunity and poor parents will give birth to poor children starved of it - this is the basis on which the (im)balance of wealth and power is maintained. Until every child has adequate opportunity to self-actualise (through education etc.), all this talk of "individual mobility" and "the testicular fortitude to succeed" (wtf ) is completely meaningless. In our respective societies, barring a few rare exceptions to the rule, wealth will beget wealth and poverty will beget poverty. This has nothing to do with desire, it has everything to do with opportunity. Until every child has access to a quality education, the propogation of wealth along hereditary lines will continue. This concept, by the way, isn't capitalism, it's aristocracy.

So, to answer your question about the "racial heirarchy" in the US, the reason why black (and hispanic and other) people rank consistently lower than white Americans in social indicators has less to do with race than the fact that individuals of these ethnicities have, more often than not, have entered the country as an underclass and the system is inadequately supported to redress this (im)balance of power in subsequent generations, even in this age of racial equality and affirmative action. Until even the poorest in our societies have adequate opportunities to make a life for themselves, the cycle will, sadly, continue.

using only what i've heard people describe on these forums i'd say the U.S. is far better on racial discrimination (in that there isnt a lot of it) than countries in Europe and Middle East. friend of mine went to Japan for a month and he said people would curse at him, hiss at him (yes, hiss at him), and call him White Devil

white power!

I still don't understand the fraternities that only allow black people or white people only

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail I still don't understand the fraternities that only allow black people or white people only

wha... how did you get in here? security!

I can wander out the CORe if I want... right?

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail I can wander out the CORe if I want... right?

n00b, I'm gonna have to ask you to leave...

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus n00b, I'm gonna have to ask you to leave...

I am very sorry. Forgive me God

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus n00b, I'm gonna have to ask you to leave...

Hey man thats "discrimination"

^ lol

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade Many people will face inequities based on their upbringing and heritage, but it has nothing to do with race. A black child, born in the modern US, is - ceteris paribus - not likely to end up any worse off financially than a white child. Therefore - as Arbiter said - race is no basis upon which to measure (or excuse, rather) "the (im)balance of wealth or influence within society". It is, however, an inescapable fact that wealth is cyclical and readily propagated along hereditary lines almost as well-defined as those of race. Rich parents will give birth to rich children drowned in opportunity and poor parents will give birth to poor children starved of it - this is the basis on which the (im)balance of wealth and power is maintained. Until every child has adequate opportunity to self-actualise (through education etc.), all this talk of "individual mobility" and "the testicular fortitude to succeed" (wtf ) is completely meaningless. In our respective societies, barring a few rare exceptions to the rule, wealth will beget wealth and poverty will beget poverty. This has nothing to do with desire, it has everything to do with opportunity. Until every child has access to a quality education, the propogation of wealth along hereditary lines will continue. This concept, by the way, isn't capitalism, it's aristocracy.

It has everything to do with understanding financial basics a lot more than "hereditary lines".
Less than 1% of millionaires inherit their wealth while the majority have actually worked for it from nothing or less than nothing.
There is no exuse in America not to succeed if someone really wanted to; opportunity has everything to do with personal desire and follow through of the opportunity before them be it education, business, personal goals or otherwise.
Those that lack the spirit of entrepreneurship will never become truly wealthy. Name one person on any millionaire list and there will be a business to point to as the reason (for the majority).

Education is good but hardly a vehicle for wealth when we have PHDs driving taxis and MBAs waitering tables here in Toronto (and we have LOTS of both).
The days of get a good education = get a good job = retire well are long, long gone and THAT is what is needed to be taught in schools, never mind just simple, basic budgeting.
I don't have to go on reciting student loan debt., credit card and personal saving statistics because we all know its only been getting worse.
I'm not slamming education, education is very important, but take it for what it's worth and be very specific about what that education is going to do for them after they're done and before they start.
Otherwise all we get a bunch of whining grads on the end of the meat grinder complaining about 'opportunity'...
ironic nes pas?

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