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how can this still go on?

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In the past four months, six Muslim women living in Berlin have been brutally murdered by family members. Their crime? Trying to break free and live Western lifestyles. Within their communities, the killers are revered as heroes for preserving their family dignity. How can such a horrific and shockingly archaic practice be flourishing in the heart of Europe? The deaths have sparked momentary outrage, but will they change the grim reality for Muslim women?

I understand that it may be their customs and beliefs but isnt this taking it to an extreme, this is only one example of it though, there are any more.

Will it ever stop?

article here

fukn barbaric.. What a disgrace to Islam..

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For her family, such behavior represented the ultimate shame -- the embrace of "corrupt" Western ways.

"Corrupt" hey?? Killing your wife/sister/daughter is fully legit nowadays yeah?


The most disturbing thing.. I could bet my left nut that most of these men who perform "honour" killings are themselves embracing western culture more than anyone. Without a doubt they're the ones drinking alcohol, gambling and generally running a muck. They themselves are merely overcompensating for their own insecurities as a result of women (who have, for centuries, been vilified in the name of Islam) finally gaining some indepedance..

poor effort.. hang em by their balls..

I tell ya what tho, and I'll try and find the link later, but I'm positive I read on the news the other day that a white person committed a crime!!! Yes! A white person committed a crime!!!

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Originally posted by George Smiley I tell ya what tho, and I'll try and find the link later, but I'm positive I read on the news the other day that a white person committed a crime!!! Yes! A white person committed a crime!!!

Cheers mate im still laughing 5 minutes later.......

Well, actually whitey, or the white devil as I like to call them, commit most of the crime in the U.S., but guess what unless we are talking about the a small amount of cases, the white devil doesn't use religion to uphold reasons for murder.

surely these women would know the consequences of their actions in that community. why didnt they just move away if they knew their behaviour would cause their deaths.

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Originally posted by kush paintings Well, actually whitey, or the white devil as I like to call them, commit most of the crime in the U.S., but guess what unless we are talking about the a small amount of cases, the white devil doesn't use religion to uphold reasons for murder.

What and every crime committed by a Muslim is because of religion?

Not at all. In this case, though, yes.

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Originally posted by svens_bath surely these women would know the consequences of their actions in that community. why didnt they just move away if they knew their behaviour would cause their deaths.

I'm no sociologist but I know it seems to be some kind of pattern that women who are beaten by their husbands find it very difficult to leave them (like Little Mo!) so maybe its a similar frame of mind?

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Originally posted by kush paintings Not at all. In this case, though, yes.

So a small proportion of crimes by Muslims are for religious reasons, and also a small number of crimes by Christians are for religious reasons too?

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Originally posted by George Smiley I'm no sociologist but I know it seems to be some kind of pattern that women who are beaten by their husbands find it very difficult to leave them (like Little Mo!) so maybe its a similar frame of mind?

the difference is that those women are in a relationship with the husband which causes all the diffculties with leaving, and most probably ddidnt know their partner would turn violent. these woemn on the otherhand should be able to reasonably foresee the consequences of their actions, and so should have thought about what they were doing before getting into it (not that im condoning it). its the same idea as a man say, who lived in a small village, perhaps a redneck type of place, and went about wearing sexy womens clothing, high heels etc. if he doesnt want the hassle this will bring, why not move away to the city where it is tolerated

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Originally posted by kush paintings Not at all. In this case, though, yes.

actually, no. honour killings have nothing to do with islam.

I apologize if I am mistaken then, but are you saying these 'honor' killings have nothing to do with these murderers belief's in Islam? If their rejection of western culture has nothing to do with religion, than I shall take back what I said.

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Originally posted by svens_bath these woemn on the otherhand should be able to reasonably foresee the consequences of their actions, and so should have thought about what they were doing before getting into it (not that im condoning it).

But shouldnt they live in a society where they dont have to run away from it?

Besides, you can run but you cant hide.

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Originally posted by svens_bath the difference is that those women are in a relationship with the husband which causes all the diffculties with leaving, and most probably ddidnt know their partner would turn violent. these woemn on the otherhand should be able to reasonably foresee the consequences of their actions, and so should have thought about what they were doing before getting into it (not that im condoning it). its the same idea as a man say, who lived in a small village, perhaps a redneck type of place, and went about wearing sexy womens clothing, high heels etc. if he doesnt want the hassle this will bring, why not move away to the city where it is tolerated

Nah I meant women who are repeatedly beaten (ie they know exactly what their husband is like) but still find it difficult to leave (also it might not be as easy to predict the consequences of their actions as you are implying)

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Originally posted by narcism But shouldnt they live in a society where they dont have to run away from it? Besides, you can run but you cant hide.

They live in Germany! And honour killings have happened in the UK too, and guess what? They are treated as murder cases, its not like these people are allowed to do it! I am 100% sure that there have been many cases of white or Christian people finding out that their wife has been sleeping with someone else and have duly killed said wife and said lover, these cases are nothing different and (altho I have never read to Koran) I think this is more of a cultural thing rather than a religious thing (as sven pointed out)

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Originally posted by narcism But shouldnt they live in a society where they dont have to run away from it? Besides, you can run but you cant hide.

maybe, but then shouldnt i be able to live in a society where i am not arrested for smoking weed? you have to respect the society or community in which you live and respect their rules, however stupid. otherwise, hit the road.

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Originally posted by kush paintings I apologize if I am mistaken then, but are you saying these 'honor' killings have nothing to do with these murderers belief's in Islam? If their rejection of western culture has nothing to do with religion, than I shall take back what I said.

as far as im aware no, they are not part of the religion, but are in fact just cultural traditions, from certain areas of the world, sri lanka for example has it rooted in the culture. remeber that religion didnt originate in these countires, it spread to them, so they retained and fused both culture and religion, to the point where often honour killings are taken to be part of the religion, and may (just as islamic terrorism is) be done in the name of the religion, but this is misguided

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Originally posted by svens_bath as far as im aware no, they are not part of the religion, but are in fact just cultural traditions, from certain areas of the world, sri lanka for example has it rooted in the culture. remeber that religion didnt originate in these countires, it spread to them, so they retained and fused both culture and religion, to the point where often honour killings are taken to be part of the religion, and may (just as islamic terrorism is) be done in the name of the religion, but this is misguided

Agree, this is something that blurs alot of the debate about certain nationalities/countries. There is a (very lazy imo) tendancy to lump everyone from these regions under an all-encompassing Islamic banner. But they forget that there are many Christians who live in these places and they dont act like people in the west they act like, shock horror, people in the Middle East!!

The founder of the Ba'ath party was a Christian, and so was the founder of the PFLP (one of the most imfamous Palestinian terrorist organisation) In fact, Arab nationalism was founded by Christian Arabs. Not that that has anything to do with this topic but just to show you cant generalise about people from the "Islamic world"

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Originally posted by George Smiley Nah I meant women who are repeatedly beaten (ie they know exactly what their husband is like) but still find it difficult to leave (also it might not be as easy to predict the consequences of their actions as you are implying)

yeah women who are repeatedly beaten. but honour killings as i understand them are single acts of murder. there is no ongoing power struggle. you dishonour the tradition, are warned perhaps, continue to dishonour the culture, and sre then killed.

maybe they arent able to forsee what will happen, but in my opinion, that makes them inceridibly niaive, or stupid. surely they should know the character of their own family members well enough to judge what they would do if they did x.

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Originally posted by George Smiley the PFLP

lets not go down that road again.

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Originally posted by svens_bath lets not go down that road again.

This is a prime example of why there are federal laws.

"Heroes" or not, they broke the law of the country they were living in and should be punished accordingly.

I'll never understand immigrants who believe they don't have to abide by the laws of their chosen country just because of their religious beliefs...

if that was the case I'd make up my own religion and go hog wild....(and I don't mean killing)

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r This is a prime example of why there are federal laws. "Heroes" or not, they broke the law of the country they were living in and should be punished accordingly. I'll never understand immigrants who believe they don't have to abide by the laws of their chosen country just because of their religious beliefs... if that was the case I'd make up my own religion and go hog wild....(and I don't mean killing)

What about residents who break the law? Dont you think there is a possibility that what pursuades immigrants to commit crimes might be exactly the same thing that pursuades residents to commit crimes?

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Originally posted by George Smiley What about residents who break the law? Dont you think there is a possibility that what pursuades immigrants to commit crimes might be exactly the same thing that pursuades residents to commit crimes?

Absolutely, and that was my point.
If I had done the same here in Toronto, I wouldn't expect the law to treat me any different than someone who had just come "off the boat".

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