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EU Poll

What's your opinion on the European Union?

^ not a fan then?

If it worked as it's ment to it would be great, wheter it can is another question though....

But I do think we need to have something like it (as wastefull as it is just now).

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish ^ not a fan then? If it worked as it's ment to it would be great, wheter it can is another question though.... But I do think we need to have something like it (as wastefull as it is just now).

I love the way people who are not even from the EU can make sweeping statements about it like its bad or whatever, but I can guarentee 9 times out of 10 you ask that person to expand they'll either not be able to or it will become evident they dont have a clue about the EU! (Actually that probably applies as much to people IN the EU as well!!)

So brashy, whats up with the EU?

I think its a positive, and has benifited many throughout Europe.

But it needs to become more democratic and acessable to the general public, most people dont understand the various Treatys etc, the Constitution that most of us will vote on is a good example, some countries will vote and others will not, and most people havent a clue what its all about.

The one issue with I think is that it tends to be all the reject politicians who end up going to it because they can't get into their respective parliaments.

Apart from that we need to be able to legislate/cooperate at an EU level. We all benefit (but it costs....and worse costs different nations different amounts, some getting less back than they put in, but it has to be that way).

And we definatly need to hear more about it.

I think it's "The best solution for Europe today", but its not "The perfect solution for Europe". EU need to reform a lot of stuff, and much of it is in the constitution imo, and thats why i think it should be implamented. Personally im also a supporter of a federal europe, i think that would work a lot better than the EU we see today where different levels of EU/Countries cant really get together in a good way....

and yeah, most ppl really dont have a clue what the EU is about, esp within the EU i would say, which is tragic, i hope we can change this soon.

The one thing i REALLY hate about the EU is CAP.

anyway, back to my boring essay that im almost finnished with!

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew anyway, back to my boring essay that im almost finnished with!

Ditto

It's a good idea in theory, but in practise it's created a massive (and expensive) bureaucracy. It's also prevented fundamental economic reform of the sort necessary for Europe to compete internationally; French-style state intervention is still too common. Finally, the EU ties the hands of countries that want tighter immigration controls - which is the #1 issue facing Europe today.

I therefore voted for option #3, although I just as easily could have voted for #4.

i agree with what st andrew said except the CAP our usual subject our arguments lol ....lemme prepare my argments and i hope to change your mine !
UE is the best solution today it brought back peace in our countries after 2 wars which ruined us and also allows us to have exchange and programs i think it's a good think but to me each country needs to keep his personnality and what made it
im agree to share a lot of things and got some common politics but not everything ...otherwise we gonna loose our idendity

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l i agree with what st andrew said except the CAP our usual subject our arguments lol ....lemme prepare my argments and i hope to change your mine ! UE is the best solution today it brought back peace in our countries after 2 wars which ruined us and also allows us to have exchange and programs i think it's a good think but to me each country needs to keep his personnality and what made it im agree to share a lot of things and got some common politics but not everything ...otherwise we gonna loose our idendity

Boooooooooooo!

Fuck CAP!

The EU (or la UE!!!) has a budget of 60billion euros - half of that is spent on CAP (ie giving rich farmers money to either grow nothing or to destroy what they grow). Half!! We just expanded the EU so are in need of more structural funds (currently the structural funds account for 20% of the budget), plus we are trying to build an EU military capability but the only two countries with the defence budgets to meet the capability improvement targets are the UK and France, which means we cannot carry out Petersberg Tasks and help people in need.

Plus I hate farmers

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Boooooooooooo! Fuck CAP! The EU (or la UE!!!) has a budget of 60billion euros - half of that is spent on CAP (ie giving rich farmers money to either grow nothing or to destroy what they grow). Half!! We just expanded the EU so are in need of more structural funds (currently the structural funds account for 20% of the budget), plus we are trying to build an EU military capability but the only two countries with the defence budgets to meet the capability improvement targets are the UK and France, which means we cannot carry out Petersberg Tasks and help people in need. Plus I hate farmers

yeah, seriously marie, fuck CAP! it's SOOOOO many arguments against it, and im really curious how you can defend it... so arguments or stfu!

so....i think the CAP is necessary and useful for many reasons
first it contributes to give to european guarantees and safety for the future products they buy ,furthermore PAC contributes for the environment 's protection and also promote the culture of the bio products
but it also contributes to make the EU 's products more competitive on the world's market
that's why i think we gotta keep the CAP

I'd say it's positive as an economic institution, however it seems negative (so far anyway) as a political one.

we milked the EU for all we could back in the day. Which was ncie.


ITs good, but has flawes. But then, it is impossible to have a polical system thats perfect, especially when it incompasses so many different nationalities and standards.

I voted option 1, but as as others don't consider the EU a perfect institution. To me it seems as some of the bigger countries (France & England) need to do a little pride-swallowing before the great promises of the project can be realized.

@Arbiter: You're talking about the EU or the CAP? If "the EU", can you please be a little bit more elaborate?

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l so....i think the CAP is necessary and useful for many reasons first it contributes to give to european guarantees and safety for the future products they buy ,furthermore PAC contributes for the environment 's protection and also promote the culture of the bio products but it also contributes to make the EU 's products more competitive on the world's market that's why i think we gotta keep the CAP

Okay, so in 2004, CAP cost about 50 billion euro, that could given a country of 90 million people a free education, grade one all the way to a university degree. Think that would be a better way of using the money?

Or perhaps the reason that CAP according to some estimates kills as many as 6 600 people EVERY DAY. Thats a lot of people, but hey europeans get safe food products, thats all that matter eh!

I dont know how many different institutions and reasearches that have showed that agricultre subsidies is the nr one reason for third world countries not developing faster than they do. But as long as we all have environmental friendly food, then i guess it doesnt matter that 80% of the worlds population will stay poor.

And even for us egocentric europeans this is not only beneficial, its estimated that our food prices are about 25-80% higher than they would be without CAP. But not only that, it cost every citizen in the EU, 23 euros a week, to pay for all the subsidies.

So except for killing third world ppl, keeping the rest of the world poor, making our food more expensive and costing us a shitload of money, except for that, its also a higly unefficient way of having labour. In a market economy there shouldnt be any business that should be subsidiesed like that, year after year, without any sign of turning around. This also leads to a huge overproduction, and people working with things they shouldnt, so it really slows down the economy of europe too. If the european egriculture business is not competitive enought, either we make it competitive or we start doing something else where we can compete without government support instead.

As for food safety and environmental rules, you could still have it, its not like the car industry make safe cars just because the government gives them money for it (the government doesnt...), they simply do it because there is a consumer demand for safe products, also there is a certain minimum requirment for a car to be allowed out on the roads, the same would be applied to food (and is already!).

quote:

Originally posted by Arbiter I'd say it's positive as an economic institution, however it seems negative (so far anyway) as a political one.

Imo, i have almost the opposite opinion

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic @Arbiter: You're talking about the EU or the CAP? If "the EU", can you please be a little bit more elaborate?

This is going to be short and rather cursory as I'm about to head off to bed, but here's the short version.

I'm talking about the EU - I think that, economically, it's advantageous for Europe to pool their resources to some extent: a unified currency, strong commercial and financial ties with fairly liberal restrictions. Although there are some questionable economic initiatives in the EU, it generally encourages economic cooperation which ought to lead to economic growth.

Politically, however, the EU seems to be taking on too great a role IMO. Immigration policies have led to a myriad of problems already, and there is, as far as I can tell, a growing sense that the EU may threaten the sovereignty of its member countries. Because of this, quite a few Europeans seem relatively hostile to the EU and the vast majority of others quite apathetic towards it, as they really only identify with their home country, rather than seeing themselves as "citizens" of the EU.

I think the EU would be more effective if it spent less energy creating "policies" that are enthusiastically supported by a very dubious number of Europeans and more energy fostering the type of economic cooperation it has the potential to create. In other words, instead of trying to act as another layer of government, it ought to act as a small, simple, and efficient overseeing body for European economic affairs which helps businesses, governments, and individuals throughout Europe form mutually advantageous relationships with a minimum of bureaucratic involvement.

well erik i gotta admit u are right on some points that's why the CAP has been reformed !

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l well erik i gotta admit u are right on some points that's why the CAP has been reformed !

Exactly how has the reform lead to any significant improvment?

@Arbiter: Thanks for the clarification. I agree with your sentiments to some extend, though I don't think that the flaw is in the political ambitions of the EU, but rather the speed with which they're implemented. The unknowing masses need time to adjust.

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