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First Exit Polls Revealed, Looks Like a Strong 'non'

45% for, 55% against.

les fran�ais sont des gros cons bordel de merde !

quote:

Originally posted by d-miurge les fran�ais sont des gros cons bordel de merde !

yes, too bad they will bring europe down with them...

Do you thin it is a case of "not sure" so just put "no" to be on the safe side? I think that's what has happened, fear of commitment if you will.

If i understand it right, here are the official results:

http://www.radiofrance.fr/reportage...5/resultats.php

Look at the difference between mainland france and its territories (at least i believe thats the difference)... pretty interesting!

I read on a Danish news site, that Chirac said that his government would "draw consequences" from the result. The exact nature of these consequences will be revealed next week.
It would truely by bizarre if he steps down. Then all the people who voted "Non" to defy him, would have succeeded in their stupid approach.

quote:

Chirac's decision to give the public a referendum on the issue was a risky one; had he sent the issue straight to parliament, approval was more likely, CNN's European political editor Robin Oakley said. http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/e...e.eu/index.html

whyd he do that

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 whyd he do that

cause when he said he wanted a referendum the "yes" side was in a strong lead, and he thought that it would look good to have a referendum. Not a very smart decision imo.

Chirac himself won't.
The whole debate is about Prime Minister Raffarin. Most likely his time is over. As some smart guy said today: It's sad that such far reaching, highly important decisions are taken hostage by domestic political campaigns. Instead of voting about the actualy content, such elections turn out to be another popularity polls.

Nationalist movements use the current debate to gain political capital, the governments are short-sighted, and in the end huge projects collpase and leave a gigantic damage for years.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 whyd he do that

Because he's a proud psychopath.

All the Danish "yes"-parties (about 85% of the national parliament) has stated that this will have no influence on the process of ratification in Denmark (referendum in September), and Paul Nyrup Rasmussen, head of the social democrats in Europe, has pronounced this to be "a French problem", so I'm hopeful that we'll all move along without France (and the Netherlands).

Well at least the French can be proud of their pollsters.

Their early polls are much more accurate it seems.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic All the Danish "yes"-parties (about 85% of the national parliament) has stated that this will have no influence on the process of ratification in Denmark (referendum in September), and Paul Nyrup Rasmussen, head of the social democrats in Europe, has pronounced this to be "a French problem", so I'm hopeful that we'll all move along without France (and the Netherlands).

You know what the ppl of denmark think? You think its going to be a yes or a no?

quote:

Originally posted by d-miurge les fran�ais sont des gros cons bordel de merde !

Trop des encul� J'suis vraiment pas content la. J'ai s�rieusement envie de me cass� d'ici.

L'autre jour j'ai vus des photocopies d'une affichette qui disait ' l'Alsace 60 ans sans guerre ne changons pas �a. Votez oui � l'Europe ! "

J'avais s�rieusement envie de chial� car c'est tellement vrai. Les fran�ais se rende pas du tout compte de leur action avec ceci.

Why don't the other 24 members just ratify it and kick France out?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew cause when he said he wanted a referendum the "yes" side was in a strong lead, and he thought that it would look good to have a referendum. Not a very smart decision imo.

so what were the main reasons people were voting no?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew You know what the ppl of denmark think? You think its going to be a yes or a no?

I think it will be a yes. The last polls talk about nearly 50% yes and 35% no. We did our rebellion back in 92/93.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 Why don't the other 24 members just ratify it and kick France out?

Maybe we will. When Denmark was dragging its feet, the rest wanted to continue without us, that *should* translate into everybody moving along without France. But then again, the 3% inflation rule has demonstrated that clearly there's equal and more equal in the EU.

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 Why don't the other 24 members just ratify it and kick France out?

well, first of all, thats assuming all the other countries ratifies it, which is not very likely. the Uk and holland is widely excpected to vote no too. That was kinda more expected tho (at least the UK one), but france is one of the founders of the EU, and supposedly very EU friendly. So this is a big crisis for the union. But yeah, i hope the union goes on without france if all the other countries ratifies it.

quote:

so what were the main reasons people were voting no?

well, i think the two main problems were that they wanted to protest the domestic government, and they thought it was to economicly liberal (liberal in the european sense, not american, ie that it was too conservative in your sense ).

The later one is not really true at all, since the consitution really just take current economic treaties, and put them into one treaty, and also add some new social stuff (like that we should have a sustainable growth etc). and the french doesnt seem to realise that their social system simply doesnt work... and the first one is obviously very wrong too. A tragic day...

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I think it will be a yes. The last polls talk about nearly 50% yes and 35% no. We did our rebellion back in 92/93.

thats good, hopefully you wont do another france, ie turn the opinion towards no as you get closer to the election....

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew the Uk and holland is widely excpected to vote no too. That was kinda more expected tho (at least the UK one),

Being a sucker for disappointments, I'm already setting myself up for new ones now: Maybe all the talk about how a French "no" would mean the death to the constitution, will affect Dutch no-voters, so that they don't show up. Figuring that their show of resistance isn't as important anymore? Hah? Sounds good, right? Further, the Brits hate the French and basically see the EU as some sort of French imperialism. Maybe if the forces of "yes" in the UK play on this new situation, perhaps helped along by a quick and clear cutting off of France by the EU, they can sway the opinions of Mr & Mrs Illiterate? Yeah, I think I'm really on to something here.

so would you guys say this will just delay the process or is more serious in that it is unlikely there will ever be any sort of unified system in Europe

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Being a sucker for disappointments, I'm already setting myself up for new ones now: Maybe all the talk about how a French "no" would mean the death to the constitution, will affect Dutch no-voters, so that they don't show up. Figuring that their show of resistance isn't as important anymore? Hah? Sounds good, right? Further, the Brits hate the French and basically see the EU as some sort of French imperialism. Maybe if the forces of "yes" in the UK play on this new situation, perhaps helped along by a quick and clear cutting off of France by the EU, they can sway the opinions of Mr & Mrs Illiterate? Yeah, I think I'm really on to something here.

actually i was thinking along the same lines, at least for the UK. Many of the arguments in france was that it was too liberal too, something most UK ppl wouldnt mind in the same way. And i rather see a EU without france than without the UK. Perhaps we could get rid of CAP then...

Edit:
Just so you know, i dont seriously think that there will ever be a EU without france, but who knows...

Edit 2:

If the UK votes no, wouldnt that be proof for the french ppl that this is not an "anglo saxian" constitution? Also Poland is going to vote for the constitution, and a yes is expected, perhaps a strong yes there makes the french affraid of loosing their role as the leading "power" in the EU? Much can happen...

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 so would you guys say this will just delay the process or is more serious in that it is unlikely there will ever be any sort of unified system in Europe

id say it will only delay the process. the other countries will probably wait for a french yes, and it will happen, eventually. this is not a new situation for the EU, and our long tradition of slow unefficient negoations will pay off in the end

Im pretty sure that within 5 years (probably sooner) the constitution will be in place.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew If i understand it right, here are the official results: http://www.radiofrance.fr/reportage...5/resultats.php Look at the difference between mainland france and its territories (at least i believe thats the difference)... pretty interesting!

Interesting results.. Even though i cant read French and understand where any of the places are, i can gather that all but one of the colonies voted strongly for "yes" while Paris itself voted yes too.

It seems to me that France has the 'country-hick' syndrome that the USA has problems with. Anyone that has any connection to the outside world, (whether it be physically overseas or just dealing with the international community on a regular basis) always seem to be pro-change.

quote:

Originally posted by Dupz Interesting results.. Even though i cant read French and understand where any of the places are, i can gather that all but one of the colonies voted strongly for "yes" while Paris itself voted yes too. It seems to me that France has the 'country-hick' syndrome that the USA has problems with. Anyone that has any connection to the outside world, (whether it be physically overseas or just dealing with the international community on a regular basis) always seem to be pro-change.

Yes, it seems that most countries have this syndrome, esp the one about big cities/densly populated areas, they are always a lot more pro change. Its interesting, i wounder if its only because there are more business ppl in big cities, with contact with the rest of the world?

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Being a sucker for disappointments, I'm already setting myself up for new ones now: Maybe all the talk about how a French "no" would mean the death to the constitution, will affect Dutch no-voters, so that they don't show up. Figuring that their show of resistance isn't as important anymore? Hah? Sounds good, right? Further, the Brits hate the French and basically see the EU as some sort of French imperialism. Maybe if the forces of "yes" in the UK play on this new situation, perhaps helped along by a quick and clear cutting off of France by the EU, they can sway the opinions of Mr & Mrs Illiterate? Yeah, I think I'm really on to something here.

Another interesting scenario would be if hollands turnout simply were bellow the 30% that the dutch government have said is needed to make the vote valid. This is kinda likely, since france now voted no already, and it might seem like there is no real need to go out and vote for the dutch ppl.

Well i read it here first......been busy the last few hours.

So where now, what a mess, could be an even bigger mess come wedensday.

The no vote is even bigger than i thought it would be and the turnout at the polls has been huge, so no doubting the mood of the voters.

So what will happen now i wonder particularily if the Dutch also vote no. They are hardly going to rewrite the constitution. But i wonder what will happen to the other referenda in other countries, will they still go ahead or is there any point.

Great day for the eurosceptics, i can just hear the howls of glee particularily among the British eurosceptics, its going to make it incredably hard for Blair now to sell it to the people.

But who knows perhaps a few harsh truths will have to be learnt by the countries that have or probably will reject the constitution, either sign up or ship out, and i bet at the end of the day most people dont want that.

If France were to go it alone and leave the EU they would surely be doomed economically in longer run and i think in the cold light of day if left with a choice to either go it alone or stay within the EU, the choice has to be clear so i would predict another referendum within a couple of years and hopefully they begin to get their house in order and realise its not all about France and its unsustainable lifestyle.

But a very interesting week ahead and for once this forum will be dominated by European politics, which cant be a bad thing.

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