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Star Wars Episode III

Wtf mate? What happened to my thread?

It's living a secret life as a COR-thread.

Turned into the usual CORfest too CAPS ALL OVER THE SHOW!!!!!11111oneone.

where is lira?

its in the COR where it should be go look

this is gonna be good

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 its in the COR where it should be go look this is gonna be good

Just thought I'd quote you incase you pussy out again and delete your posts for no particular reason.....

anyway I'll repost what I put in before

I dunno why this got moved (orig. from PDD):

quote:

'In terms of evil, one of the original concepts was how does a democracy turn itself into a dictatorship,'' Lucas told a news conference at Cannes, where his final episode had its world premiere. ''The parallels between what we did in Vietnam and what we're doing in Iraq now are unbelievable.

George Lucus Quoted >CNN<

quote:

Creator George Lucas admits that his tale of a republic succumbing to dictatorship is colored by his observations of the Nixon administration and, more recently, the post-9/11 Bush administration. Fear, his Jedi often say, leads to the Dark Side; public fears, Episodes I�III suggest, can lead to the concentration of power in the hands of politicians and the erosion of democracy into authoritarianism. Some observers of the politics of Star Wars sharply criticize parts of Lucas's tale. Following the release of "Episode II: Attack of the Clones," the Objectivist Center's Ed Hudgins fired off an op-ed criticizing the film for showing Palpatine and the Sith forming an alliance of convenience with traders (the Trade Federation), bankers (the Banking Clan), unions (the Commerce Guilds), and corporations (the Corporate Alliance). "That's about as obvious a slap at business as you'll get," Hudgins bristled. "Lucas the liberal sees economic power as a danger, and fails to realize that it is political power, even in the hands of a republican government, that corrupts commerce and society."

>The FOX "viewpoint"......<



Fight the power!

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew where is lira?

I dunno, but was WickedNeo always on our mod list?

so is it not valid to be able to discuss the political implications of Star Wars here?

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish I dunno, but was WickedNeo always on our mod list?

Now that you ask, I start to doubt myself, but I seem to remember having seen his red comments ending in *thread closed* ever so often. And I dive into the other forums extremely rarely. So my answer would be "yes".

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag so is it not valid to be able to discuss the political implications of Star Wars here?

What's to discuss? They're blatantly obvious.

This is blatant defiance of moderator ruling and I will not stand for it!

You posted in the thread now your part of it.....

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic Now that you ask, I start to doubt myself, but I seem to remember having seen his red comments ending in *thread closed* ever so often. And I dive into the other forums extremely rarely. So my answer would be "yes".

Yes, he's been a mod ever since this forum originally started, but he really hasn't been too energetic in overseeing the discussions.

Usually threads are imported into the PDD, I've never seen a thread get exported ... I don't understand ... what does it mean???? Why do the mods hate star wars?

it's all a conspiracy!

oh well, i obviously missed something here today.

Well I am a bit upset, but oh well start a new one. I don't see how it doesn't fit, not only does the movie hold great political significance, but even moreso philoshopical. I have this unbelievable DVD called The Power of Myth, and in it there is an interview with George Lucas. Star Wars is merely the telling of an old tale, the oldest actually. The matrix did a very good job at telling the same tale with in the first movie, but somehow in the genius of the first movie, it was lost upon the second two. However, I stray from my point. The interviewer asks Lucas if he thinks his Star Wars story is the modern day bible/ story of Jesus Christ. He responded yes, it is much like the story of Jesus. It is a story about selflessness, not giving in to temptation, and how easy it is to become evil. The philosophy behind Star Wars is nothing short of genius, even in all its simplicity. The fact that the previous thread was deleted simply shows how people cannot seem to get beneath the surface on a movie. And I thought the messages were clear

Oh and I saw what happened to my original thread, and needless to say I would have laughed if it wasn't so scarry how dumb some people are.

Even has "imaculate conception" built into it

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Well I am a bit upset, but oh well start a new one. I don't see how it doesn't fit, not only does the movie hold great political significance, but even moreso philoshopical.

Please tell me what the political significance of this movie is. Whose opinions did it sway?

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings It is a story about selflessness, not giving in to temptation, and how easy it is to become evil.

How easy it is if you're extremely stupid and inconsistent in your ways. Anakin's turn to evil is one of the most unconvincing character developments I've ever seen on the big screen (or the small one for that matter).

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings The fact that the previous thread was deleted simply shows how people cannot seem to get beneath the surface on a movie. And I thought the messages were clear

I thought I had it figured out: Beneath the surface of computer generated landscapes is a pile of shit. Now, you tell me exactly what the great intellectual achievements are.

The intellectual achievements in Star Wars, I guess are not as clear as I thought. I am going to rewatch the dvd I have Power of Myth with the George Lucas interview to clear my thoughts and will get back on you. As for the political hints in the movie, I can't believe you would miss the entire part about the battle over the senate. Regardless of whether or not you enjoyed the movie, there is much learning that can be done from viewing it. For example, although it seems at first glance that Lucas is attempting to draw strong pollarity between good and evil, light and dark, if you look below the surface of this obvious paring, you will see the two are not opposites at all. Below the surface, Lucas defines evil as Martin Buber (Jewish theologian) has; "Evil is a lack of direction." Although I agree the character development of Anakin feels hurried in Episode III (which is shocking as Lucas had three movies to develop him), you must look past this at the general picture, or what Lucas is trying to say. Evil is simply an absence of attention, giving in to the urges that you feel inside. According to Buber, good comes from walking a moral path with much dedication. If you cannot see this parrallel to Star Wars, then I believe you may have seen the wrong movie.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings The intellectual achievements in Star Wars, I guess are not as clear as I thought. I am going to rewatch the dvd I have Power of Myth with the George Lucas interview to clear my thoughts and will get back on you. As for the political hints in the movie, I can't believe you would miss the entire part about the battle over the senate. Regardless of whether or not you enjoyed the movie, there is much learning that can be done from viewing it. For example, although it seems at first glance that Lucas is attempting to draw strong pollarity between good and evil, light and dark, if you look below the surface of this obvious paring, you will see the two are not opposites at all. Below the surface, Lucas defines evil as Martin Buber (Jewish theologian) has; "Evil is a lack of direction." Although I agree the character development of Anakin feels hurried in Episode III (which is shocking as Lucas had three movies to develop him), you must look past this at the general picture, or what Lucas is trying to say. Evil is simply an absence of attention, giving in to the urges that you feel inside. According to Buber, good comes from walking a moral path with much dedication. If you cannot see this parrallel to Star Wars, then I believe you may have seen the wrong movie.

seriously, perhaps you may be looking into this too deeply?

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings The intellectual achievements in Star Wars, I guess are not as clear as I thought.

"Intellectual achievement"??? From what you wrote I see nothing that requires an intellect to come up with, nor to fit into a movie with no coherent storyline.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings As for the political hints in the movie, I can't believe you would miss the entire part about the battle over the senate.

Well, you said that Star Wars had "political significance", which I take to be something more than simply "containing part with aspects of politics". I would have taken "significance" to mean "impact", but of course you are the one who knows best what you meant. I just state it so you know why I didn't agree with your assessment.

quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings Regardless of whether or not you enjoyed the movie, there is much learning that can be done from viewing it. For example, although it seems at first glance that Lucas is attempting to draw strong pollarity between good and evil, light and dark, if you look below the surface of this obvious paring, you will see the two are not opposites at all. Below the surface, Lucas defines evil as Martin Buber (Jewish theologian) has; "Evil is a lack of direction." Although I agree the character development of Anakin feels hurried in Episode III (which is shocking as Lucas had three movies to develop him), you must look past this at the general picture, or what Lucas is trying to say. Evil is simply an absence of attention, giving in to the urges that you feel inside. According to Buber, good comes from walking a moral path with much dedication. If you cannot see this parrallel to Star Wars, then I believe you may have seen the wrong movie.

I'm with Itarille on this one. Have you ever heard of Martin Gardner's analysis of the Washingon Monument? It was a poke at all the people who ascribe mystical essence to the pyramids of Giza, due to their orientation in relation to some stars and relations between measurements of their features. Gardner took something pretty mundane, namely the Washington Monument, and found all sorts of relationships between its dimensions and mystical matters. All to illustrate that if you look for signs you *will* find them - no matter how ridiculous your hypothesis.
I think the same applies to Star Warsism: If you look for long enough, you'll find the evidence of the religion you're advocating. There's even quite a strong case for Lucas being a pedophile, if you know how to look for signs of it.
And as to the parallel which I couldn't see: I'm not familiar with Buber's theory of evil, so it's kind of hard to draw a parallel when you watch the movie. I did attend a talk on evil by a Norwegian philosopher about a year ago, and from that I learned that there's quite a few opinions on evil. It's definitely not a given that evil is simply misguided good.
Finally, it wasn't shocking that Lucas messed up the character development of Anakin in this movie. Not shocking at all. Every single character in the Star Wars series, which hasn't been in Episode 5 or 6, is severely underdeveloped. They're all one-dimensional and boring. Consider how deeply saddened you felt when Mace flew out that window. Or how your eyes got all misty when Padme died. Right?

I agree with Itarille also. Kush, you're really overestimating the philosophical aspects of the movie, and especially political ones. It's as philosophical and political as, I dunno, Matrix. Eh..wait, you mentioned Matrix already..lemme check..damn, you did. Umm, then let's think of something philosophically similar..I know! Barney the Dinosaur!

But seriously, the philosophy in the movie can be fascinating for 12 year olds, but beyond that I hardly see any depth and philosophical relevance in the movie. Wow, the guy wanted to be good but he became bad. So what. Nothing really mysterious revealed here.

You make excellent points, expecially about the character development. I realize that I may be looking too far into things, but after seeing this interview with Lucas, cconducted in the latae 80s I believe, I was truly won over by the myth of Star Wars, I will try and watch it and write it down for you guys here, but at the same time I realize I have glossed over the major flaws of the movie.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic How easy it is if you're extremely stupid and inconsistent in your ways. Anakin's turn to evil is one of the most unconvincing character developments I've ever seen on the big screen (or the small one for that matter).

IMHO, this was intentional. How else can you explain Vader's mixed feelings in Return of The Jedi? Yes, he went down the path of the Dark Side, but did he completely go down it? No, hence his ability to toss the Emporer down that shaft to save Luke.

If there was some development to Anakin sliding down the path to the Dark Side, then what happened in ROTJ wouldn't really make sense.

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag IMHO, this was intentional. How else can you explain Vader's mixed feelings in Return of The Jedi? Yes, he went down the path of the Dark Side, but did he completely go down it? No, hence his ability to toss the Emporer down that shaft to save Luke. If there was some development to Anakin sliding down the path to the Dark Side, then what happened in ROTJ wouldn't really make sense.

So you think that Lucas intentionally made something that doesn't make sense (Anakin's killings of the Younglings and the Seperatists as well as his near-choking of Padme) in order to not render something in a 20-year old movie stupid? Makes no sense to me.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 I agree with Itarille also. Kush, you're really overestimating the philosophical aspects of the movie, and especially political ones. It's as philosophical and political as, I dunno, Matrix. Eh..wait, you mentioned Matrix already..lemme check..damn, you did. Umm, then let's think of something philosophically similar..I know! Barney the Dinosaur!

I think you're being slightly harsh on The Matrix (the first one) here. Sure, it's not an epiphany but it had two points which raised it (intellectually speaking) above most other sci-fi movies IMO: First, it had the most elegant manifestation of the philosophical consequences of Cartesian doubt I've seen so far in a movie, practically doing a movie equivalent of what Sophie's World did for books. Second, it presented a rarely touched moral question, viz. should you decide for others whether their "ignorance is bliss"?, without pushing some answers down your throat. Furthermore, both of these points were achieved without disrespecting the intelligence of the audience.
To me, that ranks far above a crude "guy turns evil and gets his just reward"-point, or a "you should learn to accept the tidings of faith" spelled out l-i-t-e-r-a-l-l-y by a central character. In Sith (and possibly Barney the Dinosaur, which I have yet to see - any good?) we are never left to figure anything out by ourselves. The biggest surprise to me as the movie unfold, was that Lucas hadn't forced McGregor to say "I'm upset and crying" when he was upset and crying in the end.

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