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scales and chords in trance

Trance composed in major is usually said to tacky 'happy trance' and most decent trance would be in minor, right? tried it. minor tends to sound rather too tragic and sentimental and doesnt sound as expressive as i hoped...using the common generic chords and progressions sounds..well...too generic! any guidelines on which scales are commonly used? would the common trance melodies be played in chord piano style or chorale? know of any common progressions used in trance and if most trance tends to stick to one scale/key all together or do they modulate between keys?.any help would be much appreciated.

I think most trance tends to stick to one minor scale in each song and usually does not modulate. That said, PVD seems to modulate in some of his tracks and I think it has a very powerful effect. (specifically I am thinking of PVD - Another Way)

Not real sure on specific tips to give though.

Minor is usually the way to go...

Remember that in trance, you're using natural minor, not harmonic or melodic minor. Meaning the 7th note of the scale isn't sharpened or anything like that (just wondering cos you said it sounded too tragic and sentimental, and that effect's often created by the sharp 7th of the harmonic minor.)

As for melodies and progressions... experiment. There's only so much you can do that'll sound good in terms of progressions, really.

And nearly all trance stays in the same key, generally modulation doesn't sound good in this type of music. But yeah, it works well in Another Way.


Just use this as a guideline, though. The key is to experiment and do whatever you think sounds good, armed with a bit of basic knowledge...

You don't have to stick to one key at all. What I once did was to start off a track in minor. And half way, during an interlude I switched to major. This made for an excellent buildup in the track to really get the crowd going!

Good luck,

Nick

quote:

Originally posted by nhibberd You don't have to stick to one key at all. What I once did was to start off a track in minor. And half way, during an interlude I switched to major. This made for an excellent buildup in the track to really get the crowd going! Good luck, Nick

Could You explain it better to people, who dont have musical education?

Can someone explain to us lamers what is the difference between C-major and A-minor? Since they both consist of exactly the same notes. Do we tell them apart simply on assumtion / fact that C-major sounds happier than latter one, or is it the same thing, simply called differently (by one's preference)?

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Originally posted by Stormy_T Can someone explain to us lamers what is the difference between C-major and A-minor? Since they both consist of exactly the same notes. Do we tell them apart simply on assumtion / fact that C-major sounds happier than latter one, or is it the same thing, simply called differently (by one's preference)?

A minor starts on A, C major starts on C. On a piano the notes are the same.

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Originally posted by auujay A minor starts on A, C major starts on C. On a piano the notes are the same.

OK, I know that. Maybe I should refrase: How would we know which melody is written in which of those 2 scales if we knew the melody uses (i.e.) only white keys on a piano (C,D,E,F,G,A,B)?

One way to describe it is that if it's in A minor the 'pull' sensed by your ears will be more towards A, since A is the tonic note, not C.

And because of this (to do with how the scales are built and so on), it's gonna sound sound more emotional/less 'bright' and happy than it would if it was in C major.

I guess the second explanation is really the best, since unless you have pretty good pitch you can't just listen to a tune and sense that the strong note is A.

Sorry I'm kinda sleepy so if it's not clear enough, ask in more detail or something...

quote:

Originally posted by Stormy_T OK, I know that. Maybe I should refrase: How would we know which melody is written in which of those 2 scales if we knew the melody uses (i.e.) only white keys on a piano (C,D,E,F,G,A,B)?

You should be able to tell which notes are more common. The root, 4th and 5th are very common and are different for A minor and C major. A minor's 4th and 5th being D and E, while C major's is F and G.

special k -atb pvd?
has a massive key change

and its obvious

but i know what youre talking about
and im happy

Switching between minor and major chords can make any one of those chords sound either dark or light.
Also, what sounds dark to one person might not sound so dark to another, and so on. Epic trance relies primarily on the Aeolian mode, or natural minor mode, for its emotional impact. This is the same mode that is used in a lot of film music, and additionally, medieval chant, as well as celtic folk music.
If it's sounding too depressing, change one of your minor chords to major ones. If that sounds too dissonant, change it back and change something else. It's a matter of playing it by ear.
Also, I've found that even a very depressing melody played at 142 BPM does not sound all that depressing at all, and if one were to play it independent of a beat, it would sound more like a requiem than a dance anthem. Dynamics and tempo are important as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Stormy_T what is the difference between C-major and A-minor? Since they both consist of exactly the same notes.

They don't consist of the exact same notes - A-minor is made of A, C and E. C-major is C, E and G.

I think (but I'm not 100% sure its correct) it's Amin7 and Cmaj6 which are made of the same notes - A C E G.

quote:

Originally posted by skycrush They don't consist of the exact same notes - A-minor is made of A, C and E. C-major is C, E and G. I think (but I'm not 100% sure its correct) it's Amin7 and Cmaj6 which are made of the same notes - A C E G.

cause u start with the first note, or bass note on the key A?

what u can do.. is that u can try to make an A-Minor Scale in ur piano roll.. and u select all the notes which consists of 7 notes.. move them up so u have for instance the lower note starting on F, and viola u have the notes for F Minor..

just a tip

an A minor 7th cannot be the same as a C major 6th because the Am7 starts from A. and the Cmaj6 starts from C.

i explained this ages ago in a thread which i forget the name of. chords and scales are interelated. a scale is just an ascending or descending series of notes in whole steps.

eg. a scale from root C = C, D, E, F, G, A, B and back to C

if A is the root you start from A and ascend/descend in whole note intervals.

if the first note of the scale is the root (also called tonic), the 2nd is called the major 2nd, 3rd is called major 3rd, perfect 4th, perfect 5th, major 6th, major 7th, perfect octave.

basic chords consist of a triad of notes. this is: root, major 3rd, perfect 5th.

therefore a C chord = C, E, G. corresponding to the 1st, 3rd and 5th note of the scale.

you can add extra notes in harmony to change the dynamic of the chord or to accentuate certain aspects of it but those are the key notes.

a Cmaj6 would be a C chord +6th note of the scale: C, E, G, A

for an Am7 you would start counting notes from A.

a minor chord is root, flattened 3rd, perfect 5th. therefore an A minor = A, C, E.

an A minor 7th is an A minor + 7th note of the scale from A.

i.e. A, C, E, G

an Am7 and a Cmaj6 share many of the same notes in harmony but the root is completely different and if you play 1 after the other you can hear the difference because of this. subtle. but they are not the same.

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there is no formula for writing trance. and you should not pick a scale like you pick a tv and then stick with it for life. anyone who tells you that is likely filling you full of shit.

the only thing that is common to all trance based music is that it has a constant rhythym and popular trance usually consists of chords and scales that resolve fully. i.e. its melodic.

beyond that, you can do what the hell you like. pure theory in music is more akin to mathematics than anything else. its just counting up in steps. what makes good trance so amazing is how it builds and resolves and how it never stops moving.

typically you can hear alot of trance type songs start with a single note tapped rhythym as in a bassline. good example: tiesto's in search of sunrise mix of silence. everyone has heard it. starts out as a single tapped note in key of A. as the song builds extra harmonies are introduced to give it more texture but the bassline stays in root and drives the song. towards the end of the track. root drops to F, then up to G, then back to A and back down to G.

then it adds 5ths only it flattens the A to an A minor for this lovely sad lift. then it adds 5ths again only an octave higher for that melodic resolution right at the end of the track.

Hey dude! Long Time!

How are / is exams / life?

Once again, Derivative layeth the smack down. You've been missed.


Question for you .... I'm writing a track in A minor at the moment however at the break, the melody starts on the C, but it still uses the A minor scale. Is this melody at the break then considered to be in C Major because it starts on the C? Or is it the A Major 3rd because C note is the 3rd note in the A minor Scale.

Or does it even matter? I'm suspecting they are essentially exactly the same thing and like you said, just a matter or mathematical somantics.

Anyway, it seems to sound fine. Pretty happy and uplifting, but it works nonetheless...

howdy ^^

the root will still be in A but you are adding additional harmonies to it in relation to the root note. key changes are fiddly because you have to count up again from a different root. doing it live is a bitch unless you have really good mental arithmetic. hope that helps.

yo mef - ended up quitting my degree because it sucks ass and i spend more time producing than i do working for my degree ^^ im gonna stick around southampton and beg for a job in some local studios and or find work as a digital media assistant. at this point in time i dont care if im sweeping floors and making tea - as long as i can be in a studio/keep my current producing habit going and i can make enough to pay for food and rent.

its a real drag studying something you hate

quote:

Originally posted by skycrush They don't consist of the exact same notes - A-minor is made of A, C and E. C-major is C, E and G. I think (but I'm not 100% sure its correct) it's Amin7 and Cmaj6 which are made of the same notes - A C E G.

If you read carefully, you'll see I was refering to scales, not chords. You can have different chords in same scale. Actually, chord progression is quite common in trance music.

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Originally posted by Derivative yo mef - ended up quitting my degree because it sucks ass and i spend more time producing than i do working for my degree ^^ im gonna stick around southampton and beg for a job in some local studios and or find work as a digital media assistant. at this point in time i dont care if im sweeping floors and making tea - as long as i can be in a studio/keep my current producing habit going and i can make enough to pay for food and rent. its a real drag studying something you hate

woo thats weird! ive pretty much done exactly the same thing! WEIRD!

im in the process of getting a job to fund my music. U fancy a pint sometime? pm me

All the best mate!

martin

quote:

Originally posted by Stormy_T If you read carefully, you'll see I was refering to scales, not chords. You can have different chords in same scale. Actually, chord progression is quite common in trance music.

oops! guess I should pay closer attention...

Aeolian mode

if possible could someone expalin what Aeolian mode is ????

quote:

woo thats weird! ive pretty much done exactly the same thing! WEIRD! im in the process of getting a job to fund my music. U fancy a pint sometime? pm me All the best mate! martin

think ill take you up on that ^^ chemistry got you down too?

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if possible could someone explain what Aeolian mode is ????

not exactly sure what the notes are without checking it. but moded scales are just variations on normal scales that resolve differently.

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Originally posted by Derivative think ill take you up on that ^^ chemistry got you down too?

yeah and money issues. got a job interview on tuesday morning though

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