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Muslims continue to oppress women

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050602...ehind_the_wheel

Saudis Outraged Over Women-Drive Proposal

By DONNA ABU-NASR, Associated Press WriterThu Jun 2,10:21 AM ET

He just wanted his colleagues in the government's legislative arm to discuss the possibility of conducting a study into the feasibility of reversing the ban on women drivers � the only prohibition of its kind in the world.

But Consultative Council member Mohammad al-Zulfa's proposal has unleashed a storm in this conservative country where the subject of women drivers remains taboo.

Al-Zulfa's cell phone now constantly rings with furious Saudis accusing him of encouraging women to commit the double sins of discarding their veils and mixing with men. He gets phone text messages calling on Allah to freeze his blood. Chat rooms bristle with insulting accusations that al-Zulfa is "driven by carnal instincts with 454 horsepower."

There even have been calls to kick al-Zulfa from the council and strip him of his Saudi nationality.

The uproar may be astounding to outsiders. But in Saudi Arabia, where the religious establishment has the upper hand in defining women's freedoms, the issue touches on the kingdom's strict Islamic lifestyle.

Conservatives, who believe women should be shielded from strange men, say driving will allow a woman to leave home whenever she pleases and go wherever she wishes. Some say it will present her with opportunities to violate Islamic law, such as exposing her eyes while driving or interacting with strange men, like police officers or mechanics.

"Driving by women leads to evil," Munir al-Shahrani wrote in a letter to the editor of the Al-Watan daily. "Can you imagine what it will be like if her car broke down? She would have to seek help from men."

But al-Zulfa contends neither the law nor Islam bans women from driving. Instead, the ban is based on fatwas, or Islamic edicts, by senior clerics who say that any driving by women would create situations for sinful temptation.

It is the same argument used to restrict other freedoms. Without written permission from a male guardian, women may not travel, get an education or work. Regardless of permission, they are not allowed to mix with men in public or leave home without wearing black cloaks, called abayas.

Some 50 women who defied the ban and drove in November 1990 � when U.S. troops were protecting Saudi Arabia during Iraq's invasion of Kuwait � were jailed for one day, their passports were confiscated and they lost their jobs.

The driving prohibition has forced families to hire live-in drivers, who, strangely, are allowed to be alone with women. Al-Zulfa said clerics have deemed this a lesser evil than driving. Women whose families cannot afford to pay $300 to $400 a month for drivers rely on male relatives to take them around.

Al-Zulfa brought up the issue a month ago in an open session of the Consultative Council, an appointed body that acts like a parliament.

The session focused on a new traffic law, and the Council members were discussing government statistics about more than 5,000 traffic deaths each year. They also were discussing the fact that the large number of foreign drivers � about 1 million � have economic repercussions.

"I know that talking about women driving is taboo, so I decided to take advantage of our discussions to bring up the topic," said the Western-educated al-Zulfa.

Al-Zulfa, 61, said he proposed that a study be conducted to review the issue, arguing that allowing women behind the wheel would save Saudis both money and lives � since he believes women are cautious drivers.

Al-Zulfa suggested that only women over age 35 or 40 be allowed to drive and only in cities. On highways, he said, they could drive if accompanied by male guardians.

Al-Zulfa put the proposal in writing and sent it to the council's presidency so it can appoint a date for discussing it. But apparently worried about the conservatives' reaction, council head, Sheik Saleh bin Humaid, has not responded.

Despite the harsh outcry, not all the reaction has been negative.

Abdulrahman al-Rashed, a Saudi who is general manager of Al-Arabiya television, wrote in a recent column in Asharq al-Awsat paper: "It's inconceivable that in a country of 25 million, a third of them are women who wait for a driver every day to take them to school, the hospital and relatives' homes."

Many women activists also welcomed al-Zulfa's suggestion. But others lashed out at him for using the issue to project himself as a reformer.

In a strongly worded article, Wajiha al-Huweidar said Saudi women will not allow "the intellectuals to shine and their names to glitter at our expense.

"We will not permit anyone and we have not appointed anyone to speak on our behalf," she said.

While I admittedly only read the big red portion, I cannot help but agree that women behind the wheel are indeed evil. I'm sure I don't agree with anything else the guy said, however.

What if they set up a AAA service run by women for women? Would that alleviate his concerns?

damn right.

its about time we got those bitches from behind the wheel and put them into the kitchen.


HOnestly, you not gonna anyone to disagree with the fact that women are evil when behind the wheel.

I agree.. Woman behind a steering wheel is evil and scary!

whats all the fuss, they couldn't possibly be as bad as asian women drivers

quote:

Originally posted by josh4 whats all the fuss, they couldn't possibly be as bad as asian women drivers

fuckin aye

its the Saudi Goverment/Fundametalists, not Muslims you idiot

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z its the Saudi Goverment/Fundametalists, not Muslims you idiot


the day blacks distinguish between white people is the day i'll distinguish between the various groups of Muslims

quote:

Originally posted by josh4  the day blacks distinguish between white people is the day i'll distinguish between the various groups of Muslims

so I guess all Americans are a bunch of rednecks too then.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z its the Saudi Goverment/Fundametalists, not Muslims you idiot

i agree, but to put it differently: its arab men and their culture that are suppressing women, and the arab men happen to be muslim.


if one looked at arab cristians in jordan, lebanon, israel, palestine, and elsewhere, i'd bet a dollar that one would find similar suppression. this leads me to believe that the culprit is not the religion per se, but the culture in the region (the culture of which religion is only a part of). there may also be a biolgical basis too, but that's another topic.

Okey maybe this wouldve helped me but i didnt read anything in the thread

Here we go again on how Islam is evil. All fucking religion IS

To decieve ppl in making them believe that there is something in a afterlife is wrong.

And those fucking fucks like tony Robbins and Joel Osween thier fucking con artists and they should be treated like CONS that they are.

The American Governement, mostly the Bush Administration, what a bunch of stupid fucks and hypocrites and liars.

They go out talking about how the saudi governement should quit human trafficking and improve thier treatment of women.

When the American governemnt allows human trafficking and human rights abuse. Look at the 10-20 Million undocumented immigrants. Most of them are TRAFFICKED into the United States. How can we oppose Human Trafficking when we have prolly the biggest problem with human trafficking?

Most of them don't have health insurance and are poor as fuck. The American governemnt does nothing to prevent them from entering and once they enter businesses can exploit them for long hours and shitty pay.

Also hispanic males treat their women pretty badly too.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid Also hispanic males treat their women pretty badly too.

but they are not islamic, so its not important.
Women have allways got the short end of the stick, hell it was only a couple of hundred years ago we were burning witches. History hasnt been kind to the women, and there are plenty of men around the world *cough* red states *cough* that still think a womans place in the kitchen and no place else. Its the culture of uneducated men oppressing women, not one religion or another.

Throughout history men have used women as an easy scapegoat for their own insecurities... Men have oppressed women not because women are inheretly evil, but simply because the CAN. Oppressing women because 'men might be tempted by the sight of a women', isnt the fault of a woman but of a horny male.. but lets blame the woman anyway..

Arab nations will never move forward when only half of their population are active social participants.. Sure, western countries still oppress their women (in some way) but at least we fukn let them have some human dignity.

It is widely in the West that muslim women are supressed. It is assumed that they have no rights and r treated as second class-citizens. By hearing sensational stories appearing in the media aboout honour killings ec ec of countries who handles the Sharia like Jordn and Pakistan. The regimess of these countries refuse to treat this as a capital crime.In their eyes is this in violation of Shariah.
There has been a civalization, so u can't handle this things in 2005

Relgion, culture, education and many other things equally play a role in how women are mistreated in today's soceity.

Saudi Arabia's fanatic society put many restraints on their women. It is probably their way of life.

But what I really want to know is, what the majority of their women thinks (not some liberal Saudi women group) ? If they are cool with the (perceived by us) oppression, I dont' see a problem.

All for people's free will.

ah shiet. just more 3rd world crap. but we cannot expect them to treat women the same, after all, all they do is raise the children, cook and clean.

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by josh4  the day blacks distinguish between white people is the day i'll distinguish between the various groups of Muslims

What do black ppl have to do with Muslims?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z What do black ppl have to do with Muslims?

well arent a lot of blacks muslims

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange i agree, but to put it differently: its arab men and their culture that are suppressing women, and the arab men happen to be muslim. if one looked at arab cristians in jordan, lebanon, israel, palestine, and elsewhere, i'd bet a dollar that one would find similar suppression. this leads me to believe that the culprit is not the religion per se, but the culture in the region (the culture of which religion is only a part of). there may also be a biolgical basis too, but that's another topic.

I agree. But this image of Arab culture is wildly exagerated. Saudi Arabia, without a doubt, has the most extreme and fundamentalist Goverment in the entrie Middle East. That's the only place in the Middle East, with maybe a few exceptions, where stupid shit like this happens and they have dumb laws like this.

The reason I pointed that out and said the Saudi Goverment/Fudamentalists is because it's not reflective of reality in many other Muslim countries/societies. When people who don't know Muslims or don't know anything about/understand Islam, are many times mislead to believe that Islam is oppresive of women (which is a common misconception in the West). And ppl like shadoWolf like to propogate such misconception. For example, the threads called "Muslims continue to oppress women" which is not the case. There are white Muslims, black Muslims, Arab muslims, asain Muslims, brown Muslims and any other ethnicity you can think of. It's the Saudi Goverment/Fundamentalist that oppress women. My point is, the appropriate name for the thread would have been "Saudi Goverment/Fundamentalist continue to oppress women."

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid well arent a lot of blacks muslims

Alot of black ppl are Christian, atheist and agnostic too.

@ josh4, I still don't understand why you said that. All black ppl(probably not even a majority) aren't Muslim. Neigther am I black incase you were directing that comment at me.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer so I guess all Americans are a bunch of rednecks too then.

nice one

gotta say this

what happens in saudia arabia, is just in saudia arabia, damn, men get their hands cut off when they steal , what is that?that doesnt happen anywhere!
and other nasty shi*t too.
arab countries and their people are diffrent, i say they should not be one,I happen to live in an arab country, n there no nonsense like that, thats only in saudia arabia.

to put it straight, its not muslims and its not arabs.
(n not just this subject, all the other crap u get from the news)
arab nations got major problems thats true but maybe u just have something against them.
people are people everywhere.
believe me
crazy people are all around us, not cuz theyr muslims, arabs, christians or jews. it means that has to do anything with it,
its sick to think that.
besides, women are shitty drivers and should be banned

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf

you moron.what if those women chosed to dress like that and it wasnt forced upon them?is that hard to believe?

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