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Is ASOT actually all trance?

I've been listening to the more recent ASOT episodes, and I have a feeling this may be a matter of semantics, but many of the songs Armin plays do not sound like trance. Or, is it simply "progressive" trance that he is playing in his sets? The tempo of the songs alone have me wondering what genre of songs they are at some points.

Re: Is ASOT actually all trance?

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Originally posted by Deam I've been listening to the more recent ASOT episodes, and I have a feeling this may be a matter of semantics, but many of the songs Armin plays do not sound like trance. Or, is it simply "progressive" trance that he is playing in his sets? The tempo of the songs alone have me wondering what genre of songs they are at some points.

Armin plays trance. What does tempo have to do with anything, as a DJ you can change the tempo to whatever you wish.

Armin spins whatever he wants... no set has to be strictly Trance, plus there are many forms of Trance... Its not A State Of, Same Tempo Eventually Might Get Boring, Trance (ASOSTEMGBT)

It's symantics... Every DJ explores sub-genres... Armin does not play ONLY trance... Just like Tiesto doesn't spin only tech-trance... ISOS 4 had quite a bit progressive trance in it as well...

well... he chimes in every now and then saying "bringing you the best in trance and progressive" which leads me to believe he spins both trance and progressive

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Originally posted by Krysta_101 well... he chimes in every now and then saying "bringing you the best in trance and progressive" which leads me to believe he spins both trance and progressive

Well he says "The Best" which is far from the truth

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Originally posted by sandstorm03 Well he says "The Best" which is far from the truth

Isn't that a matter of taste? Not that I think he's playing "The Best".

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Originally posted by sandstorm03 Well he says "The Best" which is far from the truth

if one wanted the best, one would listen to sasha

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Originally posted by Zenchowdah if one wanted the best, one would listen to sasha

Electro Funky House Doesn't do it for me, unfortunately .

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Originally posted by tactik Isn't that a matter of taste? Not that I think he's playing "The Best".

Well yes and no. But when someone admits he doesnt totally like all the tracks he plays, it means something.

"Armin plays trance. What does tempo have to do with anything, as a DJ you can change the tempo to whatever you wish."

Well, from my understanding, the tempo of the music, i.e. the BPM, can help in determing the genre. Sure, a DJ can change the tempo (pitch) to make a song faster, but that doesn't mean the genre has changed. For instance, a house song played at 140BPM is still house, just played faster. In the case of Armin though, the songs appear to be played at their original tempo. However, for me, when I hear slower, darker songs I don't initially think of them as trance, but progressive, which is why the quote above regarding "Trance AND Progressive" seems to answer my question. Then we get into the question of "what is progressive", which is too confusing to get into anyways In my primitive ways, I consider something progressive when it isn't quite house, and not quite trance.

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Originally posted by Deam Well, from my understanding, the tempo of the music, i.e. the BPM, can help in determing the genre. Sure, a DJ can change the tempo (pitch) to make a song faster, but that doesn't mean the genre has changed. For instance, a house song played at 140BPM is still house, just played faster. In the case of Armin though, the songs appear to be played at their original tempo.

So how is it different if someone makes a Trance track @ 120 or 150? Its just a setting in cubase or what not.

Because, I am referring to what the song was originally recorded in. It's one thing if the song is pitched up or down minorly to match the mix, but a 10BPM difference is not subtle. A song that used to be house played at 15BPM higher, in my opinion, would not be a "house" song, as the BPM is part of the genre. As well, a trance song played at 120BPM wouldn't really be "trance" either, again, in my opinion.

However, are you denying the notion that BPM and tempo can be indicative of genre? If so, then there is nothing really left to talk about. But in ASOT, Armin plays slower tunes, tunes which have not just been slowed down 5-10 BPMs, but are being played at their original speed. We may all have preconcieved notions of what a genre is, so it's hard to really discuss. But since Armin himself says he plays progressive too, it's really moot.

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Originally posted by Deam Because, I am referring to what the song was originally recorded in. It's one thing if the song is pitched up or down minorly to match the mix, but a 10BPM difference is not subtle. A song that used to be house played at 15BPM higher, in my opinion, would not be a "house" song, as the BPM is part of the genre. As well, a trance song played at 120BPM wouldn't really be "trance" either, again, in my opinion. However, are you denying the notion that BPM and tempo can be indicative of genre? If so, then there is nothing really left to talk about. But in ASOT, Armin plays slower tunes, tunes which have not just been slowed down 5-10 BPMs, but are being played at their original speed. We may all have preconcieved notions of what a genre is, so it's hard to really discuss. But since Armin himself says he plays progressive too, it's really moot.

BPM is one thing to help label what genre the song is, but it is not needed. So there is nothing left to talk about.

So if you get a song in its original form, and it is 110 BPM, you would still consider it trance? Or a song at 160BPM house?

Yes. Slow trance or fast house. Or else what the fuck would it be?

Take at look at this link:

BPM description

It seems to say what I am trying to say, maybe in a more succinct and clear manner. The relevant quote:

"the chart above shows, music genres are generally confined to a specific BPM range. For example, a house track would not be considered "house" (in the traditional sense) if it had a tempo of 70 BPM. Likewise, a hip hop track would not be considered "hip hop" (again, in the traditional sense) if its BPM was pitched up to 140 BPM."

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Originally posted by Deam Take at look at this link: BPM description It seems to say what I am trying to say, maybe in a more succinct and clear manner. The relevant quote: "the chart above shows, music genres are generally confined to a specific BPM range. For example, a house track would not be considered "house" (in the traditional sense) if it had a tempo of 70 BPM. Likewise, a hip hop track would not be considered "hip hop" (again, in the traditional sense) if its BPM was pitched up to 140 BPM."

well where is progressive then?

Why are you so concerned with genres? Who gives a damn what genre armin or any other dj plays...progressive, trance, even house. As long as they do their job and make you dance, it doesn't matter. When I buy vinyls, I pick from a wide variety of genres (trance, prog. trance, tech trance, prog, prog house). I think some people get hung up on this "genre" thing too much.

There is no need to get agressive. I was curious for my own personal knowledge, since I foudn that while listening to ASOT, several of the tracks being played to not fit in with what I consider trance. The reason I was curious is because I didn't think that slower tracks would be considered trance, as opposed to progressive house, etc, and wanted to know others opinions. However, I was then told that BPM really doesn't define the genre, even though again, I was under the impression that BPM can be a key factor in determining genre and style.

I don't think this "As long as they do their job and make you dance, it doesn't matter." is really answering my question.

Classical music has a variety of styles, and people who enjoy classical music like to know the time period, style, origins, etc, simply because that is part of the enjoyment they get from the music. Just because the music makes me dance doesn't mean I no longer need to have an interest in genre and style. I simply would like to know to get a better understanding of the music. It's minutiae, but interesting nevertheless.

My friend, you'd probably have had a hell of a time trying to figure it out when trance was first starting, and the BPM range of a typical trance compilation would go from perhaps 60 to 160 or even higher. The difference there is they were compilations, not DJ mixes, and therefore unconstrained by a slim BPM range to create a decent flow. Of course, the term was much more broad then as well, so some stuff that might get called ambient or techno or hardcore today still got called trance (aah, such simpler times).

BPM can be a determining factor for some genres (like hardcore) but, most of the time it isn't. It's the general presentation (sounds, rhythm patterns, atmosphere) that defines a track.

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Originally posted by Sykonee aah, such simpler times

Indeed. I remember a time when there were only two terms in use here in Iceland for EDM (back in 91 or 92). Everything was either hardcore or softcore (the dj's knew better though, of course).

quote:

Originally posted by Deam Take at look at this link: BPM description It seems to say what I am trying to say, maybe in a more succinct and clear manner. The relevant quote: "the chart above shows, music genres are generally confined to a specific BPM range. For example, a house track would not be considered "house" (in the traditional sense) if it had a tempo of 70 BPM. Likewise, a hip hop track would not be considered "hip hop" (again, in the traditional sense) if its BPM was pitched up to 140 BPM."

Not everything you read on the Internet is true. What you're suggesting is that if you sped house up it changes genre. To what? What sounds exactly like house, but is faster? House! It's ridiculous to think that speeding up a track changes its fundamental genre.

The point of that link, is that genres focus on certain BPM ranges. These tempos are what time has shown to be the best BPM for each genre, so producers tend to stick within them. So if you find a track that is 160BPM, chances are it isn't house, but just because it's 160BPM doesn't force it to be a different genre.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Not everything you read on the Internet is true. What you're suggesting is that if you sped house up it changes genre. To what? What sounds exactly like house, but is faster? House! It's ridiculous to think that speeding up a track changes its fundamental genre. The point of that link, is that genres focus on certain BPM ranges. These tempos are what time has shown to be the best BPM for each genre, so producers tend to stick within them. So if you find a track that is 160BPM, chances are it isn't house, but just because it's 160BPM doesn't force it to be a different genre.

I just have to say that I agree with this view. Most genres are about a feeling and I don't see how a feeling would change just because you simply speed up or slow down a track. A happy song is a happy song no matter what the tempo is.

I agree with that, if I take classical music and make it 7 x faster, the instruments, time signature, etc, remain classical. The key part of that website though is the concept of "traditional sense". You are right that a trance song played slower or faster is still trance, technically, but not what one would traditionally expect when they think of trance. While I may be wrong, I would never consider a song at 180BPM house, or a song at 60BPM trance. It may have once been house or trance, but it is no longer once it has been manipulated in this way. Ironically, if you took a rock song and speed it up to dance music speeds, often the average person will think that they made a "techno version".

I also agree that BPM is not definitive, but it is usually indicative, of genre. Also, if Armin says himself that he plays both trance AND progressive, does it not suggest that I am somewhat correct in suggesting that not all of the tracks he plays are trance? On the same topic, would you consider what Markus Schulz plays as all trance? I find he too plays a lot of progressive, or, at a minimum, tracks that aren't necessarily trance.

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