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Chirac ( Britain's behaviour was "pathetic")

From: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4106250.stm

Well I haven't posted in here in over a year but this EU summit just got under my skin. Monsieur Chirac really is an uncouthed inidividual. This clown has the audacity to suggest this "French President Jacques Chirac said Britain's behaviour was "pathetic", adding he was shocked by the "arrogance of several rich countries" in the talks".

Does this balding, senile not realize that those words can be applied to his own stance at the talks. Why should French farmers be subsidized at such a high ratio for such a developed country like France. While Poland for example would do well with some of that CAP help. Mr. Blair stated that he was willing to negotiate the Brtitish $3 Billion rebate if other nations were willing to look at the overall discussion of reforming the EU budget spending and especially the Common Agricultural Policy which France is a huge beneficiary of, how about some solidarity there Chirac, you pompous blowhard. So much for free trade and equality. I was Norway and Switzerland I would stay away from the EU.

While his populace in France just finished rejecting the constitution he managed to turn the summit into a debate about British rebate, unreal. Can you say suckers. Where is Jos� Bov� Bov� and all the leftists who preach about multinationals and its evils while they continue to protect their way of subsidization in France, they really care about farmers in the Developing World. Why, the French farmers cannot compete in a free market, the answer is clear. Vive le syst�me social.

As remarked in another forum by someone "How predictable. The French and Dutch vote against the Constitution. The EU budget is ready to collapse because of the CAP spending 49% of it on 5% of the Euro population and 3% of EU output...but Britain's rebate is to blame for the mess and the focus of attack. How easily and readily the newer members fall into line behind Chirac in the mistaken belief that they will get their noses in the trough....Time to get out of this mad hatter's tea party."

What is fairness in the EU I ask you.

Chirac is a cockend, his old Europe views are taking the EU backward not forward, and whats all this with farming? when the demand of the services of any other industry in history has declined, the industry has declined, thats the way the world goes round, spending 40% of the EU budget to produce crops that WON'T be used because we have a ridiculous surplus, that is so logic-defying it beggers belief, what a waste, what progress
Still, its come back at him because it turns out theres plenty of other influncial countries not satisfied with the CAP, namely Spain, Italy and Holland, third largest EU contributor, and the stupid old man will be voted out at the next French elections (soon-ish aren't they?), and Shroeder will give way, in September, to the conservative woman over in Germany who'll porbably give France a bit less of a rimming which will be nice, those guys are talking about getting the mark back aren't they? hehe that'd be funny.

nicely summed up NYCTrancefan, couldnt agree more and if you had been following the discussions here you would know that pretty much all the EU ppl here would agree with you

nice to see you back too

A soloution would be too scrap CAP entirly, and replace it with national subsidies. In order to work with the rome treaty they could make so that they have a cap on how much they can spend on agriculte subsidies... that way countries like france could continue their senseless spending till they reach the point when they realise they gotta stop, wont hurt anyone other than themselves. that would probably piss off farmers in countries like sweden that would close to zero in subsidies tho, but who cares? Im aware that its more complicated than this, but somehow it should be possible to solve it in a similair way where CAP is divided into a national thing.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew A soloution would be too scrap CAP entirly, and replace it with national subsidies. In order to work with the rome treaty they could make so that they have a cap on how much they can spend on agriculte subsidies... that way countries like france could continue their senseless spending till they reach the point when they realise they gotta stop, wont hurt anyone other than themselves. that would probably piss off farmers in countries like sweden that would close to zero in subsidies tho, but who cares? Im aware that its more complicated than this, but somehow it should be possible to solve it in a similair way where CAP is divided into a national thing.

I dont think that would be allowed under EU law as it would mean commodities within the EU market would have an unfair advantage over other commodities within Europe (ie the French onions would be cheaper than elsewhere)

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley I dont think that would be allowed under EU law as it would mean commodities within the EU market would have an unfair advantage over other commodities within Europe (ie the French onions would be cheaper than elsewhere)

yeah i know, but you can get excemptions from that. and also thats why my idea included a spending cap equaliant to todays CAP share in that country. and if france had to pay their whole share themselves, perhaps they would be more keen to reform agriculture policies!

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew and if france had to pay their whole share themselves, perhaps they would be more keen to reform agriculture policies!

I think that sums up why they can have the attitude they do on such a subject matter as the CAP. This issue of Britain giving back its rebate is a red herring by Chirac and if I have to hear one more word about the "Anglo Saxon" business model from the French bourgouis and elite. If Britain scraps its rebate what is France doing to help out the new members as far as their policies, did Chirac even pay attention to the vote a few weeks ago, I think he missed it along with that Letzeburg, Juncker who keeps making lame jokes at every EU press conference, such as Europe is not America's subsidiary. Get over yourself and worry about Europe and its future Juncker, just as Chirac needs to do. The constitution is voted down and they seem to suggest that the people got it wrong, I wonder why.

I just hope that Blair has a pair and doesn't give into any pressure until there is a full reform of the way spending takes place, after all how could he look at the British people and say he gave up the rebate without anything to show for it as far as reforming spending in the EU. Unlike Chirac who says he has no interest in opening up the CAP to negotiation, as that is a nonstarter, Blair has said lets look at spending and our rebate what is Chirac afraid of I wonder. Doesn't he have another Franco-German summit to attend with Schroeder, like the rest of Europe doesn't exist. How do other leaders stand for this

Yeah, I agree, Chirac is really as hypocritical as you can get. Especially with the UK willing to reconsider its debate if France reconsiders CAP. He already screwed up the EU constitution and now he's screwing up the budget too. And instead of him quitting the job, his subordinates are forced to do it. Can't wait for the french presidential elections. When are they due anyway?

So, chirac wont show up for the first day of the next (Tony Blair hosted) G8 meeting. He has decided to be in singapore waiting for the decision by IOC of where the olympic games will end up, paris or london. Also many british newspapers think that he will do everything in his power to destroy Britain's EU presidency this fall!

Yay go chirac

btw, hopefully the olypmic games goes to London, would be awesome if chirac had to come to a G8 meeting late, because he had to wait for london getting the olympic games... perhaps some of his pride would be lost then =)

aww i don't agree with you guys ....i think chirac is doing right and that UK sucks ....blair at least !
well maybe it's because im french and too involved with things about france but i dunno i hate blair's politics and it's a shame he didn't lose the elections

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l aww i don't agree with you guys ....i think chirac is doing right and that UK sucks ....blair at least ! well maybe it's because im french and too involved with things about france but i dunno i hate blair's politics and it's a shame he didn't lose the elections

Its one thing to be against Blair and the war in Iraq but as far as that goes Chirac milked that for what it was worth in France. To me the whole lot of Schroeder, Chirac, Blair and G.W. should be gone for different reasons, with that said Chirac is what he is, truly an arrogant individual when it comes to his viewpoint of Europe and how the French system should be some guiding platform for Europe. What platform is that high unemployment, stagnant growth and a social system that needs to be subsidized to be maintained. Sorry to say it, we're friends h0tsweetbabyd0l but France under Chirac is living on borrowed time. Blair is correct when he asks what is the future of Europe, certainly the Common Agricultural Policy is not it as some suggested at the EU summit, Chirac included. Look at the British economy and the French economy over the past few years and they speak for themselves. I honestly cannot see a future for Europe under the current French economic system, that is the reality.

Let the Brits give up their rebate, the French renogotiate the CAP that benefits them and thereby the poorer nations of the EU will benefit more, why is Chirac so against that "solidarity." You say you don't like Blair's politics but you don't comment on Chirac and his statements at the EU summit, certainly you don't think the Brits should give up $3 billion, while France keeps it CAP benefits and probably benefits more from Britain doing that and what would Britain have to show for giving up their rebate.

i think an europe with an anglo saxon system would be wrong ....
i agree with you that france is right now in the hole but yeah UK has a great economy and very little unemployment but the differents between rich and poor is huge ,the social system not so good so UK has still a lot of problems to deal with
i think as i said previously in some posts that the CAP is a good thing and we should keep it

When 10% of your people are unemployed is that rather a large cap between rich and poor?

I mean if you want to rectify it maybe take some money from the rich farmers and give it too the something like 14% of people below the poverty line in the uk?

First of all, i pretty much agreed with everything you said NYCTrancefan

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l i think an europe with an anglo saxon system would be wrong .... i agree with you that france is right now in the hole but yeah UK has a great economy and very little unemployment but the differents between rich and poor is huge ,the social system not so good so UK has still a lot of problems to deal with

You can have a country with socialist values, without beeing fucking backwards... Look at the scandinavian countries, instead of trying to maintain a system that dont work, they have tried to maintain their systems in a way that goes well with modern ecnomic policies, all of them have very sound economies.

And really, the gap in the UK is not that big compared to what france have now, esp with your high unemployment...

quote:

i think as i said previously in some posts that the CAP is a good thing and we should keep it

You still didnt really rebut all our arguments of why you want CAP left, there really is no sound reason for it. CAP will be europe's end...

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l i think an europe with an anglo saxon system would be wrong .... i agree with you that france is right now in the hole but yeah UK has a great economy and very little unemployment but the differents between rich and poor is huge ,the social system not so good so UK has still a lot of problems to deal with i think as i said previously in some posts that the CAP is a good thing and we should keep it

The thing about that is this however, I don't know the inner workings of Poland, Slovakia, Estonia, Latvia, etc. but those nations don't have a social system like France if I am inocorrect then please let me know. I watch and read French news and every day there is a strike there, only a few days ago it was over the privatization of a freight train company which the people didn't want. In order for Europe to support such a large social welfare model as in France there is going to have to be a lot of growth and by the way I doubt Blair want's a "Anglo-Saxon" business model, a term I truly hate by the way, to be adopted by Europe, at the same time other nations cannot be supporting the lifestyles of others for their social services, vacations, pensions and farming system. This is the problem I see, Europe continually references America and the multi-nationals, at their own detriment. Where is the growth in Europe coming from.

Europe should not be worried about an Anglo-Saxon model but the French model being forced upon them as Chirac looks intent on doing, since without growth that model cannot create a successful and powerful Europe in the future that stands on par with China and America while keeping its population having a positive outlook of the EU project.

i think it's wrong from chirac to want to impose our model and our systems ...we should let all the country doing what they want and get the system they want ...
but anyways as we talked before on msn erik i agree we should follow scandinavian countries ....

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l i think it's wrong from chirac to want to impose our model and our systems ...we should let all the country doing what they want and get the system they want ... but anyways as we talked before on msn erik i agree we should follow scandinavian countries ....

but marie, CAP IS imposing your model on other countries!

oOH ..... i dunno anymore then

I think that the main issue here is not CAP, but the fact that Chirac complains about british subsidies when overall french subsidies are actually larger, and attacks Britain for not wanting to give up on the rebate although Blair said that he's willing to reconsider the rebate if France makes a compromise and decreases the CAP, something Chirac has clearly refused. In other words, I wouldn't even mind his hard stance on the CAP if it weren't for such hypocrisy.

That of course doesn't mean that I'm a great fan of Blair either. I think it will be good when they both leave their offices.

With regards to the UK rebate, i mean seriously what the hell is Chirac trying to pull? We pay the second most NET as it is into the EU, albeit a long way behind Germany, still considerably more than France, as a very rich nation now I think we can and should pay more in, but Chirac is willing to make absolutely no compramise over it, just a straight demand that we give up the rebate, lunacy! I believe France has found new enemies in Europe.

quote:

Originally posted by h0tsweetbabyd0l aww i don't agree with you guys ....i think chirac is doing right and that UK sucks ....blair at least ! well maybe it's because im french and too involved with things about france but i dunno i hate blair's politics and it's a shame he didn't lose the elections

Blair's politics? I take it you mean JUST Iraq? But its not like the French would undertake anything like Iraq without the permission of the UN is it?

The thing with Blair is he will be judged by Iraq. He (well, Labour) brought in the minimum wage, he's made the UK's economy the best in Europe (ish!) he's campaigning for aid for Africa and for measures for the effects of climate change (whats France's view on those two issues then?) and he is currently (rightly) pressuring the French to reform CAP (and luckily the UK has its rebate to use as bait, which also suggests the UK is prepared to give it up, providing the French play ball too)

France is completely hypocritical in everything they do. They block the UN resolution against Iraq not because they did not believe in the war but because they wanted to excersize power. They would have been more than happy to help out if they weren't so arrogant. And following the outbreak of war they play the high and mighty moral stance with Germany, forgetting that 4 years previously they both bombed Serbia with no UN resolution...hmmmmm. And now onto Europe. Blame the UK. France fucked up on the referendum and so its the UK's fault there is a crisis because the UK has a rebate! CAP? No France needs CAP but the UK does not need it's rebate! Chirac can suck my beatty swollocks

Its coming up to some anniversary of the battle of Trafalgar and I say do the reinactments with the present militaries!

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley he's made the UK's economy the best in Europe (ish!) he's campaigning for aid for Africa and for measures for the effects of climate change

*cough* brown *cough*

quote:

Originally posted by Dervish *cough* brown *cough*

I dont see Brown's name down on the invertation list to Gleneagles!

just cos not-so-fat tony didn't live upto his part of the deal

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Let the Brits give up their rebate, the French renogotiate the CAP that benefits them and thereby the poorer nations of the EU will benefit more, why is Chirac so against that "solidarity."

Seriously tho, this is an illusion, and a little unfair to boot.

Some seem to think the EU is in practice somehow about socialistic spreading of the goodies. It simply isn't. It's a business and economic venture indeed for the benefit of the whole, but this doesn't mean countries are suddenly no longer self-interested. (Do you typically enter a business deal for the purposes of making money to give away?) And like it or not, the EU was France's baby.

When the club agreed to begin admitting smaller fry, it was on the specific proviso that they would NOT be entitled to CAP-type goodies until a certain period of time had elapsed, dependent on the individual country and their economic performance/dedication to reform (which is to say their degree of "westernization." The EU is and was also intended to be a political weapon to be hung like the sword of Damokles over the heads of club-hopefuls -- to its benefit it has been instrumental in speeding the progress of e.g., the former Soviet bloc countries).

The original 12 hold considerable clout; some even have the power to summarialy refuse membership to others in said club.

So, complaining that the CAP should be scrapped and/or benefits handed down to e.g., Poland is naive and ignores the above realities (arguably, this thinking goes, Poland and a host of others are already being subsidized: they have lower relative taxes, will be attracting corporate/labour because of EU membership, and then balancing the books/deficits with EU money out of German, French and Dutch pockets).

I'm not defending France's actions, but neither should they be talked about within the context of "being against...solidarity." That's a low-blow and just misunderstands the realities of the powers of the original club members.

Cheers,
-Noble

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