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-- Think the banning of smoking is over? Think again!
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Think the banning of smoking is over? Think again!

They are addicted to telling you how to live it seems....

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Dark days ahead for lighting up Bar, restaurant owners angry, call for compensation ignored. Ontario passes tough anti-smoking bill but activists vow to fight for total ban Toronto Star- June 9, 2005 by Rob Ferguson Anti-tobacco activists vowed yesterday to keep pressing for stricter restrictions on smoking after the Ontario Legislature passed one of North America's toughest laws against lighting up. While their ultimate goal remains a total ban on tobacco products, a push continues to curb a habit that kills 16,000 people a year in Ontario - the biggest preventable cause of death - and costs the health-care system $1.7 billion annually. The wish list includes higher cigarette taxes, bans on smoking on outdoor patios, at building entrances and in cars with children, reducing the number of stores selling cigarettes and protection for tenants in buildings with common ventilation systems. "There is a lot to do," said Michael Perley, director of the Ontario Campaign for Action on Tobacco, noting Ontario is behind its target of raising tobacco taxes to the national average. Activists envy the results in California where both smoking and cancer rates have dropped after years of such measures. For now, Health Minister George Smitherman said he'll concentrate on implementing the Smoke-Free Ontario Act approved yesterday in a 71-6 vote. The six dissenters were Progressive Conservatives, several from ridings in tobacco country. The law, replacing a patchwork of municipal non-smoking bylaws and banning smoking in all indoor work and public places, comes into effect next May 31. On that date, the 2 million or 20 per cent of Ontarians who smoke will find designated smoking rooms in bars and restaurants outlawed - leaving homes, cars and the great outdoors among the few places to puff. Smoking will be permitted on outdoor patios, providing they're not somehow enclosed. The rare exceptions include separately ventilated smoking rooms in nursing homes and psychiatric hospitals, where patients must be able to smoke without the help of staff, and specialty cigar shops. Laws on tobacco sales to minors are also being toughened and smoking will be prohibited in vehicles used for work, such as delivery trucks. By May 31, 2008, stores will no longer be able to display cigarettes publicly on so-called "power walls." The restrictions are designed to reduce exposure to deadly second-hand smoke, prompt more smokers to quit and dissuade others, mainly children and youths, from starting. "I think this is a really, really signature step toward a climate ... where the ravages of second-hand smoke are no longer present and where Ontario workers will be protected from them," Smitherman said. Health benefits of California's mid-1990s smoking ban have already shown up in statistics, with declines in six of nine tobacco-related cancers, said state health department spokesman Ken August. The adult smoking rate in the state is now 15 per cent, down one-third since higher cigarette taxes were imposed in 1988. About 85 per cent of Ontario municipalities, including Toronto, now have no-smoking bylaws, so the new act will create a level playing field in cities and towns across the province. Its impact will be felt most in communities with weak or non-existent bylaws, a list that includes Windsor, Brockville, Gananoque and several other municipalities in eastern and northwest Ontario, Perley said. Despite the fact it's on aboriginal land and could be exempt from the law, Casino Rama, which allows smoking throughout most of its complex, said it will comply. "We don't expect to see any drop in business," said spokeswoman Jenna Hunter. Smitherman said he's worried other First Nations communities may pass bylaws to ignore the law, but will work to persuade them not to in hopes of reducing "very, very high" smoking rates among aboriginals. Opponents of the act were out in full force yesterday, angry that the government did not provide for compensation to bar and restaurant owners who spent many thousands of dollars building separately ventilated smoking rooms permitted under municipal bylaws. "Their concerns have been ignored," said Douglas Needham, president of the Canadian Restaurant and Foodservices Association, noting pub and bar sales have slumped 25 per cent in three years and 4,100 jobs lost. Lobbyists for smokers' rights groups also vowed not to give up the fight against the bill. "Just because it has been passed doesn't mean there can't be future amendments ... they (smokers) are always going to be looking to be treated with fairness and civility in the future," said Nancy Daigneault, president of Mychoice.ca, funded entirely by the Canadian Tobacco Manufacturers Association to the tune of $2.5 million. "We had hoped the McGuinty government would have at least listened to adult smokers and treat them fairly and give them an opportunity to either have their own clubs or designated smoking rooms." The anti-tobacco bill was strengthened from its original version, with new measures to ban smoking 24 hours a day in regulated home daycare centres, and dates set for tearing down store cigarette displays. Those displays, for which store owners are paid thousands of dollars by tobacco firms must have any colourful advertising banners removed starting next spring and must come down entirely by May 31, 2008, with cigarettes stored out of public view. Tobacco farmers have criticized the government for providing no more than $50 million to help them and their communities ease their dependence on tobacco. Agriculture Minister Steve Peters defended the money as the largest investment by a government in a transition strategy.

I cant believe they want to ban smoking on patios and enterances now. This is getting way out of hand. Its bad enough that people are forced outside to begin with and now thats not even good enough?

Something needs to be done about these people.

motherfuckers....

Interesting that the vote is 71-6, so it's not just Libs that are supporting this.

Sheeeeet nigga

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While their ultimate goal remains a total ban on tobacco products, a push continues to curb a habit that kills 16,000 people a year in Ontario - the biggest preventable cause of death - and costs the health-care system $1.7 billion annually.

at least i will be LIVING! im tired of having to breath smoke! why do i have to suffer ? compensate me for the damage youre causing me.

man they're moving fast.

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Originally posted by Goashem at least i will be LIVING! im tired of having to breath smoke! why do i have to suffer ? compensate me for the damage youre causing me.

they do... you know how much money people pay in cigarette taxes every year that subsidizes your taxes?

you dont have to breathe smoke anymore. These people are just nitpicking for the hell of it now just to prove a point. Thats what zealism is. Unmitigated fanatasism. what non smokers should be scared of, is the extent that people will go to and worse, get away with, to inflict their beliefs on others. One day this could be someone trying to tell you how to live your life based on something you like to do that for whatever reasons they can think of, they dont agree with it.

I know smoking has inelastic demand, but if they ban smoking in such places, shouldn't it hurt their tax revenues? Banning smoking on patios will effectively stop smoking at bars which are places where there is an increased amount of cigarette smoking.

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Originally posted by The Highroller I know smoking has inelastic demand, but if they ban smoking in such places, shouldn't it hurt their tax revenues? Banning smoking on patios will effectively stop smoking at bars which are places where there is an increased amount of cigarette smoking.

It will kill business even more. Not to mention the precident this sets for controlling behaviour in other realms of society. There is no need for this bullshit. Non Smokers have reached the point where they no longer have to breathe smoke. Banning DSRs and patio smoking is just utter nonsense. I was reluctant about the current law but it seems a fair comprimise even though i still believe it tramples on business owners' rights. GOing beyond the current set up though is just nit picking and social engineering. No one can claim that any further laws will be for the protection of non smokers since non smokers have no business being in smoking areas to begin with.

I hear someone is now trying to ban drive thrus because they promote a sendentary lifestyle and pollution which costs our health care system money. Where will this saving us from ourselves BS end????

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Originally posted by Jayx1 It will kill business even more. Not to mention the precident this sets for controlling behaviour in other realms of society. There is no need for this bullshit. Non Smokers have reached the point where they no longer have to breathe smoke. Banning DSRs and patio smoking is just utter nonsense.

Although I agree with you, did you even read what I said?

yes you are saying that it will kill tax revenues...but they have thought of that. They are raising taxes more and more on cigs. Dont worry, the government isnt that stupid.

Not like the city of toronto who raised ticket fines only to discover that this actually acted as a deterrant to illegal parking. Revenues from parking fines are down this year and city hall is complaining! Shows you that parking enforcement is just a revenue generator after all. They WANT you to break the law.

i meant compensate me in a more direct way. as a middle class person i dont get to see too much money from the government (not to mention the government is stealing that money to win the election). but i do get to breath enough smoke when im walking outside. id love to see the complete ban of smoking in ALL public places.

I'm sure they've done some kind of cost-benefit analysis on this and have reached the conclusion that it'll save more money on health care than they will lost in tax revenue of death missile sales.

Government is just another business people, and they're trying to slash costs. I'm just glad I'm not, or ever have been a smoker. The only bad thing this is gonna do for me is make smoking weed in tobacco friendly places more difficult.

I wish that cigarettes were illegal and that I could be a convicted fellon if caught with them in my posession.

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Originally posted by Goashem i meant compensate me in a more direct way. as a middle class person i dont get to see too much money from the government (not to mention the government is stealing that money to win the election). but i do get to breath enough smoke when im walking outside. id love to see the complete ban of smoking in ALL public places.

if that bothers you so much then please dont drive your car so i dont have to breathe your fumes. The fumes from cars are probably 10000 X more harmfull then the 10 seconds a month that you probably get a drift of cig smoke when outside.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 if that bothers you so much then please dont drive your car so i dont have to breathe your fumes. The fumes from cars are probably 10000 X more harmfull then the 10 seconds a month that you probably get a drift of cig smoke when outside.

That's a good point Jay, but I have to say the science of your arguement is not at all true. Cigarettes smoke is FAR more dangerous to humans than car fumes. If you watched the national tonight you would be able to draw that exact same conclusion, as there was a story on smog causing deaths, and after interviewing a doctor, claimed that cigarettes are far more dangerous to the public than smog. It went as far as to say smog had virtually no effect of the respiratory system of moderately physically fit people.

so walking down a busy street every day full of busses and cars is healthier over all than catching a passing whiff of cigarette smoke from some guy on the street once in a blue moon? I cant even remember the last time that happened to me.

If you believe this then i have swampland in the everglades for sale.

If people smoking outdoors bothers people then they need to get a life.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 if that bothers you so much then please dont drive your car so i dont have to breathe your fumes. The fumes from cars are probably 10000 X more harmfull then the 10 seconds a month that you probably get a drift of cig smoke when outside.

i dont drive a car
you talk about being all pro choice, well i rather NOT smell cigarette smoke. so it really annoys me when someone smokes and i cant do shit about it.

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Originally posted by Sly_Guy there was a story on smog causing deaths, and after interviewing a doctor, claimed that cigarettes are far more dangerous to the public than smog.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who watches CBC news (great news organization btw) - I felt old watching the national/journal every night...

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Originally posted by Goashem i dont drive a car you talk about being all pro choice, well i rather NOT smell cigarette smoke. so it really annoys me when someone smokes and i cant do shit about it.

do you take the bus? Do you have people drive you places? what about when you fart? why should i be forced to endure that discomfort?

it may sound funny but people are going to do things that affect you in some way or another just as you do things that affect them. Thats the trade off that people are forgetting that living in a society is all about.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 do you take the bus? Do you have people drive you places? what about when you fart? why should i be forced to endure that discomfort? it may sound funny but people are going to do things that affect you in some way or another just as you do things that affect them. Thats the trade off that people are forgetting that living in a society is all about.

ok you have to make a difference between necessities and wants. it is not a necessity to smoke. it is a necessity to get my ass to work so i can make money and eat. you take this cigarrete arguement to extremes. yes people will do things to effect me but if one of those things is something that i do not like in my life and the government wants to ban it im all for it.

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Originally posted by Goashem ok you have to make a difference between necessities and wants. it is not a necessity to smoke. it is a necessity to get my ass to work so i can make money and eat. you take this cigarrete arguement to extremes. yes people will do things to effect me but if one of those things is something that i do not like in my life and the government wants to ban it im all for it.

what about the day the government goes to the same extremes to ban something that you like?

What then?

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Originally posted by Jayx1 so walking down a busy street every day full of busses and cars is healthier over all than catching a passing whiff of cigarette smoke from some guy on the street once in a blue moon? I cant even remember the last time that happened to me. If you believe this then i have swampland in the everglades for sale. If people smoking outdoors bothers people then they need to get a life.

I'm not disagreeing with your point jay, I'm simply stating that based on daily routines, it's not sound in the sense that the damage done to your biological person is not equal.

I don't like cigarette smoke, but I can't in good conscience make the decision to smoke for people for them. Smoking outside is fine by me, indoors it is not. Simply because indoors I may not have a choice to inhale it, where as outdoors, I can walk away more easily.

*yawn*

can someone just post the link to the 500 threads where this has already been endlessly debated?

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Originally posted by MarkT *yawn* can someone just post the link to the 500 threads where this has already been endlessly debated?

yeah but it has moved on to even more bans so the topic is not going away anytime soon.

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