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-- Copy Protection - File Sharing might be done for ...
Copy Protection - File Sharing might be done for ...
It may be a case of �if you can�t beat �em, change the law�.
After repeatedly losing in court over the sharing of music on the Internet, Canada�s recording industry may finally be about to win one. And it could change what you�ll be able to do on your computer forever.
The federal government has introduced a bill that will crack down on the practice of using programs like Kazaa and BitTorrent, by essentially making it illegal to put songs into a shared directory.
Those files can be accessed by the programs and seen by other users, who can then pick and choose what they want to copy.
Only those who hold the legal rights to a tune will be able to make something available, allowing amateur or independent musicians to still offer up their work, while protecting the big record companies.
Bill C-60 is an overhaul of Canada�s increasingly outdated Copyright Act, and addresses everything from computers to CD burning.
It aims to stop users from subverting copy protection on compact discs, although making duplicates of CDs you already own for your own personal use � like your MP3 player- would remain legal.
�The message to everybody out there [is] that it's not free because it's on the Internet,� warns Heritage Minister Liza Frulla.
The new law would exempt Internet Service Providers from liability. Instead, they�d send offenders a notice that a rights holder believes they�re offering up illegally obtained material for others.
It would demand it be removed or the user could face a lawsuit, similar to the ones filed by the industry in the U.S.
Record company execs are hailing the changes, noting they�ve lost millions in sales to the practice. Their previous legal efforts to prevent the copying have always resulted in failure.
"It's now pretty obvious ... the Canadian government intends this activity, uploading, to be illegal,� observes Graham Henderson, president of the Canadian Recording Industry Association. �There's now no issue about that."
But critics contend the bill is overkill, and could have unforeseen consequences for academic researchers looking to share their findings with others.
"This bill is a massive, massive giveaway to rights holders," fumes law professor David Fewer of the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic. "These are rights that belong to users currently, to researchers and to consumers."
The bill isn�t expected to become law until next spring, when those user rights may suddenly turn into very legal wrongs.
June 21, 2005
http://www.pulse24.com/Business/Top...21-001/page.asp
thats fine, because live sets are still not copyrighted.
and most sets are sanctioned by the dj themselves. so i think most of us here, are ok.
Good... maybe people will actually buy music again. As long as i can get live to air sets from other countries ill be happy (such as essential mix and carl cox global)
File sharing has hurt the electronic scene the most since most of the money was made on actual record sales as opposed to merchandising and tours. This is why so many small labels have gone under and why so many people have stopped producing and gone on to get what they refer to as "legit" jobs. This is also why big labels wont touch electronic music. You can make much more money selling the image of rap stars than you can an underground dj. In fact EDM is often imageless which is part of it's charm. This is why i resent guys like tiesto who ride more on the image then the music.
i find music production and talent to be more legit than most "legit" jobs. Too bad most people find it ok to steal from a lot of smaller artists.
Just like the states, there'll be too many people who continue to break the law despite the conditions. Yes a few people will be picked out by the recording industry task force, but for the most part, people will continue to share files.
Filesharing will NEVER be done for....
Karim
Good if they make this law then somebody should sue the government into recinding the blank media tarrif that they impose to supposedly pay back artists for music that may or may not be copied onto blank tapes and CDs.
The recording artists i know have never received a penny from this fund.
no-smoking copyrights-obsessed society.
I'm wondering what's gonna be their next "can't-do"
| quote: |
| Originally posted by niveole no-smoking copyrights-obsessed society. I'm wondering what's gonna be their next "can't-do" |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 stealing is wrong |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 Good... maybe people will actually buy music again. As long as i can get live to air sets from other countries ill be happy (such as essential mix and carl cox global) File sharing has hurt the electronic scene the most since most of the money was made on actual record sales as opposed to merchandising and tours. This is why so many small labels have gone under and why so many people have stopped producing and gone on to get what they refer to as "legit" jobs. This is also why big labels wont touch electronic music. You can make much more money selling the image of rap stars than you can an underground dj. In fact EDM is often imageless which is part of it's charm. This is why i resent guys like tiesto who ride more on the image then the music. i find music production and talent to be more legit than most "legit" jobs. Too bad most people find it ok to steal from a lot of smaller artists. |
i have a whole bunch of friends in the recording industry that would disagree. And considering that 2 of them are juno winners as well i'd tend to believe them.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 i have a whole bunch of friends in the recording industry that would disagree. And considering that 2 of them are juno winners as well i'd tend to believe them. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by fayraree You have EDM buddies that won Junos? I believe that's what walkindude was talking about; soaring popularity through file sharing and minimal $$$ made on CDs and most of it made DJing live...Tiesto just made more money by spinning at EuroDisney...WORKING it... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by fayraree You have EDM buddies that won Junos? |
This would be pure jokes to see anyone try to crack down on ALL the illegal file sharers. This is why private FTP's are choice right now.
What ever happened to the taxes on burnable media? Is that not enough money for them anymore or something?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by cmack This would be pure jokes to see anyone try to crack down on ALL the illegal file sharers. This is why private FTP's are choice right now. What ever happened to the taxes on burnable media? Is that not enough money for them anymore or something? |
There have been a lot of valid points brought up here.
In particular the state of EDM sales.
In Canada and the US we have some of the highest licensing fees in the world for music - which is why in Europe you see hundreds of compilations released every month versus the dozen of so released here domestically. And the only ones that were doing really well were the MUCHMUSIC series of DANCE MIX and BIG SHINY TUNES cds - in part to the massive marketing campaigns and very little competition from other compilations - in the late 90's compilations started to flood the market as EURO Compilations series DJ LINE/NUMUZIK had a success stint when EURO went top 40. Movie Soundtracks were even outselling artist albums as the Movie Houses realized that they had an untapped market in which to brand the movies and release compilations with exclusive tracks and songs. A classic EDM example of Soundtracks sales - Mortal Combat 1&2 and the Blade Soundtrack - you had people coming in to buy the New Order - Confusion (PUMP PANEL REMIX) on the Blade soundtrack - which is a hard assed acid/techno rinse - yet if it were not for that movie - most people who dismiss/call most EDM as TECHNO 
would never have been interested in this song - Lord knows when I played it clubs back in 1996 everyone was like what is this shit?? - 2 or 3 years later these same people were like WOW this is F'in COOL! I want this song! 
While working at a major independant label (with over 30 million in sales yearly) I have noticed a few things.......
Some of the most well known and heavily branded record label/compilation series companies have folded/downsized - MOONSHINE - MINISTRY OF SOUND (took a huge profit loss in 2003 due to the FisherSpooner Album - lost millions - subsequently revamped their business model and now make 30 percent of its sales through ringtones (UK) ) - HOOJ CHOONS......
MOONSHINE WAS A EDM COMPILATION/ARTIST ALBUM STAPLE AND A 10 YEAR VETERAN IN NORTH AMERICAN EDM LABELS
with a heavy roster of Exclusive DJ's - Carl Cox, DJ DAN, Misstress Barbara, John Kelly, Keoki, Christopher Lawrence, Tall Paul, Mixed Live series, DMC Licensing of MIXMAG LIVE SERIES, United DJ's of America series, The DJS Touring as MOONSHINE OVER AMERICA for years - EVEN RELEASED FERRY CORSTEN'S - RIGHT OF WAY ALBUM (their last)...........MOONSHINE was a domestic label to be reckoned with.....compared to the UK labels.......cds much cheaper than the 30-40 dollar import cost - I know because my early Rising High/Harthouse/EYE Q compilations from Germany were costing me that from Play De Record and Traxx Records.
Most people do not realize that the retailers themselves are paying anywhere from 10.90 (lowbudget major top 40 release with 10% deal on 100 units) to 18.90 many of the albums available through FUSION III imports mainly.
When I ran a Sam The Record Man back home - my boss always said that TOP 40 sales do not make him money - catalogue sales do. It is your bin copies that retail for 19.99-24.99 that you make you money on - having a deep current/well stocked catalogue is where you make the bulk of your money - at 40 points a cd cost price at 10.90 sells for 18.99 - thats 8.00 bucks - when you sell an Eminem cd (eg) cost is 11.85-12.30 (depending on % discount) - you usually have to sell it for 12.99-13.99 thats only .70 - 2.00 dollars max (places like Music World were price gougers - limited selection bought in bulk).
Granted prices have come down (cost wise) UNIVERSAL made the big push and slashed its catalogue prices by 25% but that was only after HMV pressured them into it by threatening to not stock their releases EMI and BMG followed suit shortly thereafter when HMV was not gonna stock The Red Hot Chili Peppers Album in 2002 if it did not get a 12-15% discount on bulk sales - the norm was 5-8% - 10% if you were lucky and buying 1000's of copies.
Places like Walmart are now the pariahs of the music industry right now - they are pushing to sell all cds at 9.99 (USD) and because of the mode of the buying public they may very well get away with it - as of current statistics - traditional music retailers no longer control the bulk of music sales anymore - 1-2 out of every 5 cds sold in North America is from a Walmart store - a huge increase over the last 5-10 years when they were barely selling 1 in 20. This clout has the majors scrambling they cannot afford to lose this 20-40% market share with Walmart and will eventually have to concede to Walmarts demands - Walmart has done this with other product lines - they actual force companies to sell at below cost in some instances in order to carry stock - because of the WalMart WE ARE THE CHEAPEST philosphy. And this is where merchandising comes in - not only are they huge data-miners....they are experts on merchandising. Example (Titanic Movie) retailer cost in 1999/2000 when released 21.99 (Walmart sells for 19.99) Sams had a price matching program in place but could not price match this price because it was below our actual purchase price. In turn the Titanic movie would be located at the back of the Walmart store and chances are when you had to walk through the entire store to find it you would also see something else you wanted therefore increasing the average sale. Music retailers dont quite work the same way - you usually know what you want before you enter a music store and because a music store is not multi/varied in a number of products (just cds/DVDs) the music retailers lose this customer to the Walmart one.
Enough about Walmart.......
Downloading has had a double edged sword effect on EDM sales and profits in North America especially - since 2001 there has been a downward turn in EDM cd sales - compilations flooded the markets and there was a major push to release alot of them (many very shitty) THIS IS TECHNO/THIS IS TRANCE/THIS IS JUNGLE (might as well have been called "THIS IS SHIT - compilation with only 3 really good songs on it but because you are getting 2-3 cds - it must be good!!") this flooding of compilations and money spent on marketing also overlapped with the growing napster/MP3 downloading sites and the compilation market bottomed out in by 2002.
Moonshine compilations sales in Canada were easily selling 8-20,000 copies which is a very good number for an independant with an EDM album - you have 10 or so of those releases a month you have 2-4 gold record type sales on your hands (Canadian Gold record sales status is 50,000 - 10% that of the US - as we are essentially 10% of the population of the US).
Our company's biggest break was with the PRODIGY album FAT OF THE LAND in 1997 - it went on to sell over 300,000 copies in Canada. A first for an indpendant (triple platinum) and with a very good distribution deal 30% of every album sold was ours.....12.70 cost @ 30% distribution fee = 3.78 X 300,000 units = 1.1 million dollars off of that release alone - staggering - there has yet to be an album that has sold that well EDM wise in Canada. Essentially 1 in 100 people in Canada owned that CD - amazing (and it wasn't event the Prodigy's best album IMO)
But needless to say downloading has hurt the traditional record label set-ups.......lost profits from downloading are real but in the meantime - the internet has opened up a WHOLE NEW CONSCIOUSNESS to the EDM experience and what it is/who it is/why it is.........I would hazard to guess that most people 5 years ago were no where near as EDUCATED as they are now in the DJ's - Artists who produce/the track names/ which remix titles....etc.
The only way to get your information on what was new/upcoming was to buy your Mixmag/Muzik magazine every month, befriend a DJ, or buy European compilations at ridiculously expensvie prices......the internet has allowed someone to TYPE in Paul Oakenfold - and have access to songs/mixes that would not have been available unless you recorded them when he played here or buy a mixed comp every 6 months to keep updated.
This has lead to the increased awareness of various DJs and now we have a TOP 100 compared to the 5-10 Top Jocks that were spinning in the 90's.......and the amount of artists producing tracks has increased as well as more people became knowledgable and the demand for new music was created. Advances in technology has also made it much easier to produce a quality track - when before you needed a studio filled with equipment to achieve this.....
It is true that the person that puts a record is lucky if he sells 500-5000 copies of the actual LP - club play is essential and the LP is more a marketing tool than anything - hence all the big DJ's are promoed with free copies.......licensing is where you make a fair deal of money - instead of the penny rate royalites per album sold - huge dance tracks are licensed for exclusive rights by certain labels....some of these tracks fetching 200,000 dollars or more! Based on the fact that this song will sell the compilation.......now that people can get the same songs on a DJ MIX download such as ASOT for example......people are no longer buying the compilations because by the time the compilation comes out the tracks are usually already old (the lead time to market is not quick enough to keep up with the demand of downloaded material) if you bought the recent AVB double disc or even the Tiesto ISOS 4 for that matter - you probably have already had these songs for a few weeks if not months before the compilation was available in stores.
Dj's are now making more money than ever playing gigs - this is true - but this was not always the case......the DJ's have realised that because of the increased demands of the knowledgable clubgoer - that now many people are going for the actual experience (ROCKSTAR) show that these Dj's put on now - (some are still all about the drugs and clueless) but most who go are going because it is a certain DJ spinning and they are familiar with the style being played - expecting to hear certain tracks and quick to judge if the DJ does not play exactly what they think he should.........
This rant may have been a bit off topic - but I was really trying to bring up a few real points about the way the music retail/label/artist sales environment has progressed over the last 10 years....yes it true that there must be new ways to market and get music out there - while giving customers satifaction for the dollar spent. Labels have lost huge revenues but they were running on a model that was created in the late 80's of massive A&R costs in research and development - video costs - THEY have created this inflated money scheme and way of putting people out there - well the internet has changed that - and perhaps for the better..........the labels screwed the consumer over with the advent of the CD - while discontinuing the cd single format in favour of gouging the consumer for 20 bucks instead of $2-$4 with a full cd that really only had 2-3 singles on it to begin with - no wonder consumers are pissed - knowing that 3 singles bought at 2.99 would have given you the songs that were worth owning instead of 20 dollars with a bunch of filler shit thrown in...........
Singles market needs to resurface here in North America - with added bonus materials not available anywhere - interesting insightful graphics that will actually make someone go out and drop 2-4 bucks for a mastered copy single.
Europe has always maintained its singles market and hence is the reason why their dance culture is 15 years ahead of ours......fully intergrated in all aspects of life - lets just hope we dont turn into too much of the musical snob - that has perpetuated in Britain since the Summer of Love in '88.......
| quote: |
| Originally posted by naesean3 There have been a lot of valid points brought up here. In particular the state of EDM sales. In Canada and the US we have some of the highest licensing fees in the world for music - which is why in Europe you see hundreds of compilations released every month versus the dozen of so released here domestically. And the only ones that were doing really well were the MUCHMUSIC series of DANCE MIX and BIG SHINY TUNES cds - in part to the massive marketing campaigns and very little competition from other compilations - in the late 90's compilations started to flood the market as EURO Compilations series DJ LINE/NUMUZIK had a success stint when EURO went top 40. Movie Soundtracks were even outselling artist albums as the Movie Houses realized that they had an untapped market in which to brand the movies and release compilations with exclusive tracks and songs. A classic EDM example of Soundtracks sales - Mortal Combat 1&2 and the Blade Soundtrack - you had people coming in to buy the New Order - Confusion (PUMP PANEL REMIX) on the Blade soundtrack - which is a hard assed acid/techno rinse - yet if it were not for that movie - most people who dismiss/call most EDM as TECHNO would never have been interested in this song - Lord knows when I played it clubs back in 1996 everyone was like what is this shit?? - 2 or 3 years later these same people were like WOW this is F'in COOL! I want this song! While working at a major independant label (with over 30 million in sales yearly) I have noticed a few things....... Some of the most well known and heavily branded record label/compilation series companies have folded/downsized - MOONSHINE - MINISTRY OF SOUND (took a huge profit loss in 2003 due to the FisherSpooner Album - lost millions - subsequently revamped their business model and now make 30 percent of its sales through ringtones (UK) ) - HOOJ CHOONS...... MOONSHINE WAS A EDM COMPILATION/ARTIST ALBUM STAPLE AND A 10 YEAR VETERAN IN NORTH AMERICAN EDM LABELS with a heavy roster of Exclusive DJ's - Carl Cox, DJ DAN, Misstress Barbara, John Kelly, Keoki, Christopher Lawrence, Tall Paul, Mixed Live series, DMC Licensing of MIXMAG LIVE SERIES, United DJ's of America series, The DJS Touring as MOONSHINE OVER AMERICA for years - EVEN RELEASED FERRY CORSTEN'S - RIGHT OF WAY ALBUM (their last)...........MOONSHINE was a domestic label to be reckoned with.....compared to the UK labels.......cds much cheaper than the 30-40 dollar import cost - I know because my early Rising High/Harthouse/EYE Q compilations from Germany were costing me that from Play De Record and Traxx Records. Most people do not realize that the retailers themselves are paying anywhere from 10.90 (lowbudget major top 40 release with 10% deal on 100 units) to 18.90 many of the albums available through FUSION III imports mainly. When I ran a Sam The Record Man back home - my boss always said that TOP 40 sales do not make him money - catalogue sales do. It is your bin copies that retail for 19.99-24.99 that you make you money on - having a deep current/well stocked catalogue is where you make the bulk of your money - at 40 points a cd cost price at 10.90 sells for 18.99 - thats 8.00 bucks - when you sell an Eminem cd (eg) cost is 11.85-12.30 (depending on % discount) - you usually have to sell it for 12.99-13.99 thats only .70 - 2.00 dollars max (places like Music World were price gougers - limited selection bought in bulk). Granted prices have come down (cost wise) UNIVERSAL made the big push and slashed its catalogue prices by 25% but that was only after HMV pressured them into it by threatening to not stock their releases EMI and BMG followed suit shortly thereafter when HMV was not gonna stock The Red Hot Chili Peppers Album in 2002 if it did not get a 12-15% discount on bulk sales - the norm was 5-8% - 10% if you were lucky and buying 1000's of copies. Places like Walmart are now the pariahs of the music industry right now - they are pushing to sell all cds at 9.99 (USD) and because of the mode of the buying public they may very well get away with it - as of current statistics - traditional music retailers no longer control the bulk of music sales anymore - 1-2 out of every 5 cds sold in North America is from a Walmart store - a huge increase over the last 5-10 years when they were barely selling 1 in 20. This clout has the majors scrambling they cannot afford to lose this 20-40% market share with Walmart and will eventually have to concede to Walmarts demands - Walmart has done this with other product lines - they actual force companies to sell at below cost in some instances in order to carry stock - because of the WalMart WE ARE THE CHEAPEST philosphy. And this is where merchandising comes in - not only are they huge data-miners....they are experts on merchandising. Example (Titanic Movie) retailer cost in 1999/2000 when released 21.99 (Walmart sells for 19.99) Sams had a price matching program in place but could not price match this price because it was below our actual purchase price. In turn the Titanic movie would be located at the back of the Walmart store and chances are when you had to walk through the entire store to find it you would also see something else you wanted therefore increasing the average sale. Music retailers dont quite work the same way - you usually know what you want before you enter a music store and because a music store is not multi/varied in a number of products (just cds/DVDs) the music retailers lose this customer to the Walmart one. Enough about Walmart....... Downloading has had a double edged sword effect on EDM sales and profits in North America especially - since 2001 there has been a downward turn in EDM cd sales - compilations flooded the markets and there was a major push to release alot of them (many very shitty) THIS IS TECHNO/THIS IS TRANCE/THIS IS JUNGLE (might as well have been called "THIS IS SHIT - compilation with only 3 really good songs on it but because you are getting 2-3 cds - it must be good!!") this flooding of compilations and money spent on marketing also overlapped with the growing napster/MP3 downloading sites and the compilation market bottomed out in by 2002. Moonshine compilations sales in Canada were easily selling 8-20,000 copies which is a very good number for an independant with an EDM album - you have 10 or so of those releases a month you have 2-4 gold record type sales on your hands (Canadian Gold record sales status is 50,000 - 10% that of the US - as we are essentially 10% of the population of the US). Our company's biggest break was with the PRODIGY album FAT OF THE LAND in 1997 - it went on to sell over 300,000 copies in Canada. A first for an indpendant (triple platinum) and with a very good distribution deal 30% of every album sold was ours.....12.70 cost @ 30% distribution fee = 3.78 X 300,000 units = 1.1 million dollars off of that release alone - staggering - there has yet to be an album that has sold that well EDM wise in Canada. Essentially 1 in 100 people in Canada owned that CD - amazing (and it wasn't event the Prodigy's best album IMO) But needless to say downloading has hurt the traditional record label set-ups.......lost profits from downloading are real but in the meantime - the internet has opened up a WHOLE NEW CONSCIOUSNESS to the EDM experience and what it is/who it is/why it is.........I would hazard to guess that most people 5 years ago were no where near as EDUCATED as they are now in the DJ's - Artists who produce/the track names/ which remix titles....etc. The only way to get your information on what was new/upcoming was to buy your Mixmag/Muzik magazine every month, befriend a DJ, or buy European compilations at ridiculously expensvie prices......the internet has allowed someone to TYPE in Paul Oakenfold - and have access to songs/mixes that would not have been available unless you recorded them when he played here or buy a mixed comp every 6 months to keep updated. This has lead to the increased awareness of various DJs and now we have a TOP 100 compared to the 5-10 Top Jocks that were spinning in the 90's.......and the amount of artists producing tracks has increased as well as more people became knowledgable and the demand for new music was created. Advances in technology has also made it much easier to produce a quality track - when before you needed a studio filled with equipment to achieve this..... It is true that the person that puts a record is lucky if he sells 500-5000 copies of the actual LP - club play is essential and the LP is more a marketing tool than anything - hence all the big DJ's are promoed with free copies.......licensing is where you make a fair deal of money - instead of the penny rate royalites per album sold - huge dance tracks are licensed for exclusive rights by certain labels....some of these tracks fetching 200,000 dollars or more! Based on the fact that this song will sell the compilation.......now that people can get the same songs on a DJ MIX download such as ASOT for example......people are no longer buying the compilations because by the time the compilation comes out the tracks are usually already old (the lead time to market is not quick enough to keep up with the demand of downloaded material) if you bought the recent AVB double disc or even the Tiesto ISOS 4 for that matter - you probably have already had these songs for a few weeks if not months before the compilation was available in stores. Dj's are now making more money than ever playing gigs - this is true - but this was not always the case......the DJ's have realised that because of the increased demands of the knowledgable clubgoer - that now many people are going for the actual experience (ROCKSTAR) show that these Dj's put on now - (some are still all about the drugs and clueless) but most who go are going because it is a certain DJ spinning and they are familiar with the style being played - expecting to hear certain tracks and quick to judge if the DJ does not play exactly what they think he should......... This rant may have been a bit off topic - but I was really trying to bring up a few real points about the way the music retail/label/artist sales environment has progressed over the last 10 years....yes it true that there must be new ways to market and get music out there - while giving customers satifaction for the dollar spent. Labels have lost huge revenues but they were running on a model that was created in the late 80's of massive A&R costs in research and development - video costs - THEY have created this inflated money scheme and way of putting people out there - well the internet has changed that - and perhaps for the better..........the labels screwed the consumer over with the advent of the CD - while discontinuing the cd single format in favour of gouging the consumer for 20 bucks instead of $2-$4 with a full cd that really only had 2-3 singles on it to begin with - no wonder consumers are pissed - knowing that 3 singles bought at 2.99 would have given you the songs that were worth owning instead of 20 dollars with a bunch of filler shit thrown in........... Singles market needs to resurface here in North America - with added bonus materials not available anywhere - interesting insightful graphics that will actually make someone go out and drop 2-4 bucks for a mastered copy single. Europe has always maintained its singles market and hence is the reason why their dance culture is 15 years ahead of ours......fully intergrated in all aspects of life - lets just hope we dont turn into too much of the musical snob - that has perpetuated in Britain since the Summer of Love in '88....... |
wow -- speachless.
Very good points. The music industry in North America has certainly shot itself in the foot as well for the very reasons you just mentioned. However because EDM sales are low, very few labels here are willing to get involved which is one of the reasons why although we have a lot of good talent in Canada and the US, most new acts are coming out of Europe.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jayx1 Very good points. The music industry in North America has certainly shot itself in the foot as well for the very reasons you just mentioned. However because EDM sales are low, very few labels here are willing to get involved which is one of the reasons why although we have a lot of good talent in Canada and the US, most new acts are coming out of Europe. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by naesean3 exactly - we lost Distinctive/Turbo/Topaz and many others since 2002 due to the decline in sales - it is much cheaper for stores to order from labels (import)instead of warehouse stocking them with a distro company...... and yes many independants have folded as well - but as you were mentioning - grass roots level - marketing - such as the showcasing of Canadian Talent on Radio in an EDM format would help that - pirate radio - made a huge impact on the dance scene - and the fact the singles were released in Europe meant that it could actually be requested and the radios could play it - Dance stations sprouted up because the requests warranted a DANCE MUSIC VOICE for radio....clubs and radio play a very important role in this scene - and instead of everyone trying to be cut-throat and gouge each other - there really should be a social network/community type strategy that helps to support and lift the image higher - instead of keeping it mid-level and struggling - the money aspect really has to be put aside a bit and real efforts made to ensure we capitalize on our strengths....college radio can only do so much and CRTC laws does give room for Canadian artists to manouver with in terms of radio play.....we just need to get those tracks out there available for requesting......we fall in line behind our sports teams and lift them up to such high levels of esteem......as you said many locals are worthy of just such heights of grandure and respect...... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Sean Cassidy There have been a lot of valid points brought up here. In particular the state of EDM sales. In Canada and the US we have some of the highest licensing fees in the world for music - which is why in Europe you see hundreds of compilations released every month versus the dozen of so released here domestically. And the only ones that were doing really well were the MUCHMUSIC series of DANCE MIX and BIG SHINY TUNES cds - in part to the massive marketing campaigns and very little competition from other compilations - in the late 90's compilations started to flood the market as EURO Compilations series DJ LINE/NUMUZIK had a success stint when EURO went top 40. Movie Soundtracks were even outselling artist albums as the Movie Houses realized that they had an untapped market in which to brand the movies and release compilations with exclusive tracks and songs. A classic EDM example of Soundtracks sales - Mortal Combat 1&2 and the Blade Soundtrack - you had people coming in to buy the New Order - Confusion (PUMP PANEL REMIX) on the Blade soundtrack - which is a hard assed acid/techno rinse - yet if it were not for that movie - most people who dismiss/call most EDM as TECHNO would never have been interested in this song - Lord knows when I played it clubs back in 1996 everyone was like what is this shit?? - 2 or 3 years later these same people were like WOW this is F'in COOL! I want this song! While working at a major independant label (with over 30 million in sales yearly) I have noticed a few things....... Some of the most well known and heavily branded record label/compilation series companies have folded/downsized - MOONSHINE - MINISTRY OF SOUND (took a huge profit loss in 2003 due to the FisherSpooner Album - lost millions - subsequently revamped their business model and now make 30 percent of its sales through ringtones (UK) ) - HOOJ CHOONS...... MOONSHINE WAS A EDM COMPILATION/ARTIST ALBUM STAPLE AND A 10 YEAR VETERAN IN NORTH AMERICAN EDM LABELS with a heavy roster of Exclusive DJ's - Carl Cox, DJ DAN, Misstress Barbara, John Kelly, Keoki, Christopher Lawrence, Tall Paul, Mixed Live series, DMC Licensing of MIXMAG LIVE SERIES, United DJ's of America series, The DJS Touring as MOONSHINE OVER AMERICA for years - EVEN RELEASED FERRY CORSTEN'S - RIGHT OF WAY ALBUM (their last)...........MOONSHINE was a domestic label to be reckoned with.....compared to the UK labels.......cds much cheaper than the 30-40 dollar import cost - I know because my early Rising High/Harthouse/EYE Q compilations from Germany were costing me that from Play De Record and Traxx Records. Most people do not realize that the retailers themselves are paying anywhere from 10.90 (lowbudget major top 40 release with 10% deal on 100 units) to 18.90 many of the albums available through FUSION III imports mainly. When I ran a Sam The Record Man back home - my boss always said that TOP 40 sales do not make him money - catalogue sales do. It is your bin copies that retail for 19.99-24.99 that you make you money on - having a deep current/well stocked catalogue is where you make the bulk of your money - at 40 points a cd cost price at 10.90 sells for 18.99 - thats 8.00 bucks - when you sell an Eminem cd (eg) cost is 11.85-12.30 (depending on % discount) - you usually have to sell it for 12.99-13.99 thats only .70 - 2.00 dollars max (places like Music World were price gougers - limited selection bought in bulk). Granted prices have come down (cost wise) UNIVERSAL made the big push and slashed its catalogue prices by 25% but that was only after HMV pressured them into it by threatening to not stock their releases EMI and BMG followed suit shortly thereafter when HMV was not gonna stock The Red Hot Chili Peppers Album in 2002 if it did not get a 12-15% discount on bulk sales - the norm was 5-8% - 10% if you were lucky and buying 1000's of copies. Places like Walmart are now the pariahs of the music industry right now - they are pushing to sell all cds at 9.99 (USD) and because of the mode of the buying public they may very well get away with it - as of current statistics - traditional music retailers no longer control the bulk of music sales anymore - 1-2 out of every 5 cds sold in North America is from a Walmart store - a huge increase over the last 5-10 years when they were barely selling 1 in 20. This clout has the majors scrambling they cannot afford to lose this 20-40% market share with Walmart and will eventually have to concede to Walmarts demands - Walmart has done this with other product lines - they actual force companies to sell at below cost in some instances in order to carry stock - because of the WalMart WE ARE THE CHEAPEST philosphy. And this is where merchandising comes in - not only are they huge data-miners....they are experts on merchandising. Example (Titanic Movie) retailer cost in 1999/2000 when released 21.99 (Walmart sells for 19.99) Sams had a price matching program in place but could not price match this price because it was below our actual purchase price. In turn the Titanic movie would be located at the back of the Walmart store and chances are when you had to walk through the entire store to find it you would also see something else you wanted therefore increasing the average sale. Music retailers dont quite work the same way - you usually know what you want before you enter a music store and because a music store is not multi/varied in a number of products (just cds/DVDs) the music retailers lose this customer to the Walmart one. Enough about Walmart....... Downloading has had a double edged sword effect on EDM sales and profits in North America especially - since 2001 there has been a downward turn in EDM cd sales - compilations flooded the markets and there was a major push to release alot of them (many very shitty) THIS IS TECHNO/THIS IS TRANCE/THIS IS JUNGLE (might as well have been called "THIS IS SHIT - compilation with only 3 really good songs on it but because you are getting 2-3 cds - it must be good!!") this flooding of compilations and money spent on marketing also overlapped with the growing napster/MP3 downloading sites and the compilation market bottomed out in by 2002. Moonshine compilations sales in Canada were easily selling 8-20,000 copies which is a very good number for an independant with an EDM album - you have 10 or so of those releases a month you have 2-4 gold record type sales on your hands (Canadian Gold record sales status is 50,000 - 10% that of the US - as we are essentially 10% of the population of the US). Our company's biggest break was with the PRODIGY album FAT OF THE LAND in 1997 - it went on to sell over 300,000 copies in Canada. A first for an indpendant (triple platinum) and with a very good distribution deal 30% of every album sold was ours.....12.70 cost @ 30% distribution fee = 3.78 X 300,000 units = 1.1 million dollars off of that release alone - staggering - there has yet to be an album that has sold that well EDM wise in Canada. Essentially 1 in 100 people in Canada owned that CD - amazing (and it wasn't event the Prodigy's best album IMO) But needless to say downloading has hurt the traditional record label set-ups.......lost profits from downloading are real but in the meantime - the internet has opened up a WHOLE NEW CONSCIOUSNESS to the EDM experience and what it is/who it is/why it is.........I would hazard to guess that most people 5 years ago were no where near as EDUCATED as they are now in the DJ's - Artists who produce/the track names/ which remix titles....etc. The only way to get your information on what was new/upcoming was to buy your Mixmag/Muzik magazine every month, befriend a DJ, or buy European compilations at ridiculously expensvie prices......the internet has allowed someone to TYPE in Paul Oakenfold - and have access to songs/mixes that would not have been available unless you recorded them when he played here or buy a mixed comp every 6 months to keep updated. This has lead to the increased awareness of various DJs and now we have a TOP 100 compared to the 5-10 Top Jocks that were spinning in the 90's.......and the amount of artists producing tracks has increased as well as more people became knowledgable and the demand for new music was created. Advances in technology has also made it much easier to produce a quality track - when before you needed a studio filled with equipment to achieve this..... It is true that the person that puts a record is lucky if he sells 500-5000 copies of the actual LP - club play is essential and the LP is more a marketing tool than anything - hence all the big DJ's are promoed with free copies.......licensing is where you make a fair deal of money - instead of the penny rate royalites per album sold - huge dance tracks are licensed for exclusive rights by certain labels....some of these tracks fetching 200,000 dollars or more! Based on the fact that this song will sell the compilation.......now that people can get the same songs on a DJ MIX download such as ASOT for example......people are no longer buying the compilations because by the time the compilation comes out the tracks are usually already old (the lead time to market is not quick enough to keep up with the demand of downloaded material) if you bought the recent AVB double disc or even the Tiesto ISOS 4 for that matter - you probably have already had these songs for a few weeks if not months before the compilation was available in stores. Dj's are now making more money than ever playing gigs - this is true - but this was not always the case......the DJ's have realised that because of the increased demands of the knowledgable clubgoer - that now many people are going for the actual experience (ROCKSTAR) show that these Dj's put on now - (some are still all about the drugs and clueless) but most who go are going because it is a certain DJ spinning and they are familiar with the style being played - expecting to hear certain tracks and quick to judge if the DJ does not play exactly what they think he should......... This rant may have been a bit off topic - but I was really trying to bring up a few real points about the way the music retail/label/artist sales environment has progressed over the last 10 years....yes it true that there must be new ways to market and get music out there - while giving customers satifaction for the dollar spent. Labels have lost huge revenues but they were running on a model that was created in the late 80's of massive A&R costs in research and development - video costs - THEY have created this inflated money scheme and way of putting people out there - well the internet has changed that - and perhaps for the better..........the labels screwed the consumer over with the advent of the CD - while discontinuing the cd single format in favour of gouging the consumer for 20 bucks instead of $2-$4 with a full cd that really only had 2-3 singles on it to begin with - no wonder consumers are pissed - knowing that 3 singles bought at 2.99 would have given you the songs that were worth owning instead of 20 dollars with a bunch of filler shit thrown in........... Singles market needs to resurface here in North America - with added bonus materials not available anywhere - interesting insightful graphics that will actually make someone go out and drop 2-4 bucks for a mastered copy single. Europe has always maintained its singles market and hence is the reason why their dance culture is 15 years ahead of ours......fully intergrated in all aspects of life - lets just hope we dont turn into too much of the musical snob - that has perpetuated in Britain since the Summer of Love in '88....... |
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| Originally posted by naesean3 and this was the shorter version!!! I did not even get into rave cultural aspects of what we have lost in terms of massive gains we made in the 90's!!!! Another time......another thread!! |
LOL!
Yes, stealing is wrong. Yes, the copyright laws are ridiculously outdated and these revisions are not a moment too soon. Yes, we have a levy on blank media which supposedly compensates copyright holders. Yes, the levy simply goes right into the federal government's deep pockets. And no, don't expect our Liberal government to abolish the levy if/when the new bill is introduced. (Lower taxes? Ha.)
No, there is no conclusive or even plausible evidence that file sharing is responsible for the decline of music sales. The decline is much more closely correlated with the absurd price hikes, market saturation, and overall decline in quality of the music - and yes, this includes our "beloved" EDM.
Irrespective of this bill, the labels will continue to sink because they are not fighting a war on copyright violators, they are fighting a war on a new age of low-cost media production and distribution technologies accessible to the common man. Cheap cameras, synthesizers, and arrangement software took care of the production, and torrents and the eDonkey/KAD networks are taking care of the distribution.
It's now within reach of just about anyone to distribute a few free samples of their work en masse on the 'net and, following that exposure, independently release singles on pay-per-listen sites. The only mitigating factors, of course, are talent and effort - a situation very dissimilar to the "old" production and distribution world which is governed by connections, names, and image. It's the feudalism of the dark ages vs. the free markets of the atomic age, and we already know who wins.
This legislation is right, and the government is right to push ahead with it, but it will not help the recording/motion picture industries. They're on a sinking ship - time to say goodbye to these old dinosaurs, ring out the old and ring in the new.
It's not unique to the recording industry, either, it's happening everywhere - just look at the blogosphere vs. the media monoliths. The fat cats can bitch and moan all the want, but no amount of legal spending is going to dig them out of their hole. They had their day in the sun, but now it's over - they should have embraced the internet and the P2P world when they had the chance.
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