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IR Reform

im not saying that any system of organisation or structure should be beyond reproach or reform, but i believe its a worker's right to have access to a separate & independent body to judge whether a dissmissal has been for cause.

the howard govt's plans to prevent that safeguard from being utilised by certain sections of australia's workforce is a disgrace.

discuss. if you give a fuck.

yeah if i lost my job id kill myself
but thats just me taking the easy way out again

dont know too much on the topic, just heard the ads that have been going around the tv stations. enlighten me please

Don't really give a fuck, but can someone actually say (without bias) what the reforms are?
Cos all I'm hearing is union whining so I got no idea whats going on.

as far as i understand it, and i might have the wrong end of howard's butt-raping stick- workers in businesses with fewer than 100 employees will not have access to unfair dismissal tribunals if they are sacked. theres other stuff, but as far as i can tell not a big deal.

its never going to bother my employment, and im not saying all (relatively) small business are a bunch of arseholes, but bad shit does happen to the powerless in these situations and i reckon something should be in place to reduce the instances of abuse by businesses or their managers.

I've heard of just as many small businesses get fucked over cos they had some retard working for them that they wanted to get rid of but couldn't cos of dumb industrial relations laws.

What really annoys me is the WA govts spending of tax money on their anti-reform advertising and paying public servants for protest time. Meanwhile teachers and nurses keep getting shitty pay and conditions.

quote:

Originally posted by Antistatic I've heard of just as many small businesses get fucked over cos they had some retard working for them that they wanted to get rid of but couldn't cos of dumb industrial relations laws.

Exactly! Alot of ppl cry poor but what about those who get raped by the current unfair dimissal laws.

Honest ppl who have invested their own money in a business, take all the risk, work their arses off and get fucked over by some dickhead who knows the company cant fire him regardless off what he does.

Good and bad in everything, you'll never please everyone.

oh thtop it!

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott Good and bad in everything, you'll never please everyone.

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott Honest ppl who have invested their own money in a business, take all the risk, work their arses off and get fucked over by some dickhead who knows the company cant fire him regardless off what he does.

id like to know how exactly businesses get raped with current tribunals. if they have a reason to fire someone, then there shouldnt be a problem. sure, no system is perfect but id prefer businesses getting raped rather than employees.

the disparity in the power relationship means that someone should be looking out for the employee. if a business can show reasonable grounds for dismissal, then its a non-issue. cant believe that anyone would support laws that meant anyone could get fired at anytime for no reason especially given that new employees have a 3 (soon to be 6) month temporary status, where they can be dismissed at any time.

in my experiences
its been the people who work hard in big companies (like myself)
getting raped because of the slack kahtns who work in the same business..

and they know they cant get fired!!

the answer is quite simple. Instead of working for someone else and feeling raped, work 'for' yourself. Very hard to argue with yourself and you have only yourself to blame when shit hits the fan.

It's like anything in life and everyone, everyone will try exploit whatever they can if there is an opening to do so. Food for thought I guess and a sign of the times

quote:

Originally posted by 00soups00 in my experiences its been the people who work hard in big companies (like myself) getting raped because of the slack kahtns who work in the same business..

yeah, that must really chew into your TA-posting time

and i agree christos, but it just takes simple economic theory to realise not *everyone* can work for themselves. and we all know not everyone possesses that capability in the first place.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN id like to know how exactly businesses get raped with current tribunals. if they have a reason to fire someone, then there shouldnt be a problem. sure, no system is perfect but id prefer businesses getting raped rather than employees.

No ofence mate, but I'd love to see you invest a million dollars of your own money into a venture then not be able to fire somebody who is stealing from you without paying him to leave due to unfair dismissal laws (as my parenmts had to do).

Generally if you do your job well you'll be an asset to the company you work for. Talk to most company owners and they'll tell you their greatest asset is their staff.

I'm sure if you do your job well your boss wont want to lose you by dicking you around.

Most employers complain that it is hard to find good staff so again, do your job well - why would they fire you?

I dont plan to be an employee for any longer then i have to, so for me....go johnny go! This could save me alot of bullshit in time to come.

haha, no offence taken

firstly, your parents invested $MILLION??? scottie, have i ever told you what a wonderful bloke i think you are?

i do take your point. and as ive said above, im not saying that IR reform isnt needed, or that tribunals are perfect. perhaps other changes (such as not having to pay thieving cvnts cash) can be instituted. im sure some kind of middle ground could be found, tho maybe im naive.

i still think those external bodies should exist though.

yes, lots of businesses do recognise their good staff. but a lot dont. for every tale of woe you could raise in defence of reforms, i can raise one too in defence of status quo. theres also the issue of staff that ARE good at their jobs, but other issues within the workplace arise. there are all kinds of reasons someone might (imo illegally) want to get rid of a staff member. im sure you know of instances where ppl get fvcked around by their work.

i argue that the power lies with business already (coz a lot of people will never bother to use these tribunals in the first place) and it shouldnt be increased.

Yeah I agree that the bodies shouldn't be abolished all together, but I loathe the bullshit that the unions go on with all the time.

I think reforms are as far as it will go tbh. I think the government is doing some clever negotiating with the unions.... offer absolutely nothing then agree on some small offer after some arguing/protesting etc.

By saying they will outright abolish the lot I think they are just giving themselves more room to move in the negotiations that will likely eventuate.

I'm an employee in a company with less then 100 staff so believe it or not these changes could adversly affect me, however i honestly think i stand to gain in the long run, so to will the economy.

I think the part of the reform that is worse is the part about employers being able to negotiate individual contratc with employees.

This is a big disadvantage to many unskilled workers out there.

How hard can it be to strike a balance - the power has shifted from one extreme to another.

Unions and Liberals - both clueless whales.

quote:

Originally posted by Antistatic Meanwhile teachers and nurses keep getting shitty pay and conditions.

i heart j00

quote:

Originally posted by AussieTrance How hard can it be to strike a balance - the power has shifted from one extreme to another. Unions and Liberals - both clueless whales.

Smartest post so far!

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott Smartest post so far!

If he'd added Labor, Democrats and any other party, THEN he'd have the smartest post so far

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter If he'd added Labor, Democrats and any other party, THEN he'd have the smartest post so far

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott I think reforms are as far as it will go tbh. I think the government is doing some clever negotiating with the unions.... offer absolutely nothing then agree on some small offer after some arguing/protesting etc.

nah, i disagree. this has been something they've wanted to do since they came into office and has been a background feature always. and by that i mean abolishing the right of any worker in a small business from accessing tribunals.

when they have control of the senate as parliament resumes this will be going through at some stage for sure. unless the union movement can get enough people agitated about it (i dont think so) amendments will be flying through to the keeper quicker than shane warne's last fuck.

having said that, i wont be out helping, coz im awfully lazy and got better things to do. im just ideologically opposed to the concept. esp in small business, where unions arent as prevelant, and workers are less informed about all kinds of things that are important. ive witnessed heaps of bullshit in employment situations, and i feel for those a bit younger & less experienced in what a real cvnt the working experience can be.

if IR needs reforming, good. reform it. but dont discriminate between different styles & types of workforces by preventing a large number of employees from accessing equal options.

christ. hmmmm. when did that become 4 paragraphs? sorry

edit: yeah, i had to edit cvnt back in coz i dont believe in censorship due to using naughty words

I think the problem is that we are dealing with two extreme's. The current situation which is just plain bullshit and the proposed new situation which is just as bad but at the other end.

I heard 150,000 protested in cbd today so maybe that will keep johnny from going to crazy with it all.

quote:

Originally posted by narcism i heart j00

quote:

Originally posted by batemanscott I think the problem is that we are dealing with two extreme's. The current situation which is just plain bullshit and the proposed new situation which is just as bad but at the other end. I heard 150,000 protested in cbd today so maybe that will keep johnny from going to crazy with it all.

i hope youre right, and i generally agree with you if we can find the middle ground, perhaps the libs can too. tho somehow i doubt it!

I'm in a Union, wear a blue singlet and drink VB, and i think the proposed reforms are shithouse.

And I'm also sick of all these damn foreigners taken the farken jobs.

And this country went down the shitter when we gave women the vote. First that, now guys have to fork out heaps for child support and we've got bloody poofs running around out in the open.

Its a bloody disgrace.

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