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The Perfect Kick - Here's How

I've had one or two PMs lately asking me how to get a good Kick sound. This seems to be as a consequence of my questioning the virility of some kicks that are showing up in tracks for review. The sound of these kicks have varied, from light window-tapping
to puke hitting the pan of a WC.

So here goes. These settings are very, very specific and have taken a lot of time to get right. They work for me, so they might just work for you. If some of the settings seem odd or bizarre, try them first before flaming me saying "That can't be right".

This presumes of course that you have a good quality kick sample to being with, and haven't just recorded granny swatting a fly with a newspaper. Raw 909s are ok, but need layering with another sample which is a bit more sleazy and dirty.

Samples MUST be in mono (as should be the bass), otherwise these settings are screwed.

The input level of the sample should be at 0db or a little less.

EQ
Use the high-pass filter to roll of frequencies less than 40hz.
Use the notch filter at around 800hz.
That will do for now. You can get creative later.

Compression
Here we're looking for gain reduction of 8db.

Threshold: -10db
Attack: 0ms
Release: 50 to 100ms
Ratio: 8:1
Knee: hard

Set the make-up gain so that the level comes back to 0db.

(Using the Logic compressor make sure Peak is selected and you can use
the auto-gain feature)

So far so good.

The Kick and Bass must be compressed together.
So create a stereo Group in Cubase or a stereo Bus object in Logic.
Set the kick channel output to that group or bus.

Insert a compressor here. Gain reduction should be -6db.

Threshold: -8db
Attack: 0ms
Release: 80ms
Ratio: 9:1
Knee: hard to soft

Do NOT adjust the make-up gain. Leave it at 0.

The channel fader should be reading -8db with just the kick playing.
Why -8? well you need to produce a mix with an overall output level of -3 to -4db.
When you add in all of the other elements that's what the mix should be.

Mastering will then bring up the overall level and the final level for the kick
should be -3db mastered.

Now suck and see.

wow i will try this tonight, i am really looking forward to it... thanks for these (hopefully) great tips!!!

Thank you.

cheers dude.....

just what i needed my kicks have been mainly trial and error recently.

Awesome! Gotta try this later tonight!
Thx mate!

Re: The Perfect Kick - Here's How

quote:

Originally posted by Dave West The channel fader should be reading -8db with just the kick playing. Why -8? well you need to produce a mix with an overall output level of -3 to -4db. When you add in all of the other elements that's what the mix should be. Mastering will then bring up the overall level and the final level for the kick should be -3db mastered.

This is so very true, as is the -3 dB mastered level - good stuff.

Personally, I would say use a slightly higher compressor attack time than 0 ms though (somewhere around ~1 ms), at least on the kick compressor alone. But, it all depends on the track in question and whether you're after a smoother or punchier sound of course.

But, why the 800 Hz notch filter, if I may ask? I often consider the ~800 Hz range off limits when EQing a kick, as it both is and isn't a very important range, in that it often is already at a good level and boosting/cutting here doesn't really do anything for the kick. Any reason for it that I might be missing?

Otherwise, your tips are great. Especially the last part, which should hopefully also result in people creating cleaner mixdowns and less heavily limited masters. Some of the parameters (ratio, GR) are getting a bit high for my taste though, and I tend to use a slightly lower release, but these settings will certainly work.

Not to take over your great tutorial though, but if anyone is interested in some EQ settings to try, I posted a similar tutorial to a question on another board here.

Re: Re: The Perfect Kick - Here's How

quote:

Originally posted by Atlantis-AR This is so very true, as is the -3 dB mastered level - good stuff.

Why is this? Isnt a kick the loudest part of a track and if so, why should it be at -3dB mastered?

I've read numberous mastering tutorials and threads that state the final master should be close to 0dB or just slightly under this?

??*confused*??

Re: Re: Re: The Perfect Kick - Here's How

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl Why is this? Isnt a kick the loudest part of a track and if so, why should it be at -3dB mastered? I've read numberous mastering tutorials and threads that state the final master should be close to 0dB or just slightly under this? ??*confused*??

Sure, the master should be close to 0 dB (I recommend -0.3 dB however), but that doesn't mean the kick should be raised to this level as well. There are other instruments in the mix too, and having the kick peak at around -3.0 dB then allows for the waveform height to increase by an additional 2.7 dB for these.

OK, so in the final master with everything else bar the kick and bass turned off should read -3dB?

That makes more sense. Thanks for taking the time to explaining it.

=)

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl OK, so in the final master with everything else bar the kick and bass turned off should read -3dB? That makes more sense. Thanks for taking the time to explaining it. =)

You can't turn the kick and bass off in the master. (unless of course you mean the scenario described below)

In the mix however, the kick should peak at around -8 dB, as Dave West said too.

When you come to mastering the tune, often the kick will play on its own at the beginning, and this is where you can check to see if it peaks at around -3 dB.

Great post! There is a part that was a little unclear to me though. You said:

quote:

The Kick and Bass must be compressed together. So create a stereo Group in Cubase or a stereo Bus object in Logic. Set the kick channel output to that group or bus. Insert a compressor here. Gain reduction should be -6db. Threshold: -8db Attack: 0ms Release: 80ms Ratio: 9:1 Knee: hard to soft

I assume the bass should be routed to that buss/group as well? This also means that the kick will be compressed twice then (not including mastering compression), is that desirable?
One more thing, in my experience, when compressing the bass and the kick together the volumes of both have to be adjusted very carefully, otherwise, if for instance the bass volume is set too high it will drown out the kick. Or am I doing something wrong?

-REMIDI

quote:

Originally posted by DJREMIDI I assume the bass should be routed to that buss/group as well? This also means that the kick will be compressed twice then (not including mastering compression), is that desirable?

Yes

quote:

One more thing, in my experience, when compressing the bass and the kick together the volumes of both have to be adjusted very carefully, otherwise, if for instance the bass volume is set too high it will drown out the kick. Or am I doing something wrong?

Good point.
Typical settings I use for a mono bass are...

Fader Volume: -6db to -10db depending on the bass source
EQ: High-Pass at 50hz and a notch at 400hz, low-pass at 4khz

The bass needs to be compressed also prior to being routed to the Kick/Bass bus.

Threshold: -12db
Attack: .5 to 1ms
Release: 50ms
Ratio: 4:1
Makeup-gain: +4db

To get the kick/bass combination flowing well, use the level fader on the bass - leave the kick alone.

need samples !!!!

Just a word on the subject of which software compressor to use. For the kick, a compressor capable of true hard-knee behaviour is required. So don't even bother trying to use any of the Waves compressors for this (C1, RComp) as they don't do hard-knee and leave you with a nasty little transient spike. Waves themselves recommend using the L1 or L2 limiters for this purpose but to my ear this sounds like shite.

In my experience good results can be achieved using the (now discontinued) plug-ins from the TC Native Bundle. Best of all I've found to be the humble Logic Compressor.

If I haven't mentioned any other - it's cos I haven't tried them.

muchos gracias

Ok folks, here's a kick and bass loop I've just thrown together in Logic using the settings I talked about earlier.

http://www.dwsounds.com/music/kick_and_bass_sample.mp3

Remember that although the various compression settings are fairly constant, use the eq notch to get the sound you're after. Move that notch around until the kick jumps out at you and gives you a good smack.

it was about time a good post showed up in this forum, definately the best read since ages

Here's the same basic loop but this time done in Cubase using the TC Native compressor.

http://www.dwsounds.com/music/kick_...mple_cubase.mp3

Both loops have been "Mastered" using the TC Powercore Master X3 but you can get the same result using the VintageWarmer or Waves L2/L3.

Mastering in this sense, is just a temporary fix to get the track levels to demo standard. If you do indeed write the next Ibiza Floor-Filler then it's safe to assume that you won't be mastering it.

And just one final trick to get those kicks giving your audience concussion. It's known as Parallel or Invisible Compression.

Here's one I made earlier...

http://www.dwsounds.com/music/invis...omp_example.mp3

This supplements the low end and gives you that extra thump, and here's how it's done.

Take a very hard-knee compressor (Not C1 or RComp) or a limiter and place it on a new group channel or bus.

Now from your kick channel, send around -6db of the kick to this new group channel - yes, just like a send effect. You can vary the send level depending on how big a headache you want to have.

The settings for the compressor are

Threshold: -50db
Ratio: 2:1
Attack: 0 (must be zero)
Release: 350ms (experiment with this)
Gain: None

You should be seeing around 20db of gain reduction.

You could also duplicate the kick track (if it's audio) and apply the effect on the duplicated track.

This is how you would have to do it in Fruity and Live, as they don't not have any delay compensation.

Ok. I'm done.
So no more girly kicks then?

Dave, your kicks sound fucking girly to me

One final, final tip. If you ever really need someone to lower the tone - find yourself and aussie.

hahahah @ window tapping, that'd be me.

i'll apply some of this methodology later tonight when im fixing my tune, dave. see how we go

Just a dang fine post Dave.
Brilliant. Your stuff is indeed thumpin' man!
GOtta hand it to ya for sharing what is probably a very h00g trade secret for most of the "bigshots" in the industry.

Thanks again!

quote:

Originally posted by Digital Aura Just a dang fine post Dave. Brilliant. Your stuff is indeed thumpin' man! GOtta hand it to ya for sharing what is probably a very h00g trade secret for most of the "bigshots" in the industry. Thanks again!

Cheers!
Most of this information is to be had in bits and pieces around the place, in books and forum posts. What was always lacking when I was looking for it was the specifics. Like, here's a loop and here are the track settings for that loop. What I've published may not be perfect for every loop but for those who are using the trial-and-error approach it's a very good place to start.

Can I clarify two things here:

1. Eq after compression or before?

2. When you say "notch", are you actually referring to cutting away that very tiny band around 800 Hz? Or should I be thinking more along the lines of boosting a range of frequencies in that area (bandpass), and if so, what would you say is a good starting point for the gain and Q factor?

Looks like some kick ass advice here, thanks!

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