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This is ONE of the reasons why we can't have 19,000+ Parties in Toronto EVER AGAIN!
Do cops extort paid jobs from rave promoters?
Police threaten to close events unless officers are hired
Toronto police are ignoring city council and demanding that rave promoters hire dozens of extra officers to work the lucrative all-night circuit, dance community sources say.
The choice is simple -- pay up or shut it down. Promoters of an event last Saturday were forced to hire 70 officers at a minimum $528 a pop, for a total of about $40,000. Two weeks ago, another event was cancelled when promoters refused to meet police demands to triple the number of paid-duty jobs.
Kim Stanford, chair of the Safe Dance Committee, says police forced Goin' Deep Productions to hire more than 50 extra officers -- for at least $44 an hour -- to work last Saturday's event at the city-owned Better Living Centre.
"They're essentially pricing out legal raves," says Stanford, who was part of a task force of city officials and dance promoters that drafted a list of guidelines for Toronto raves last year. The protocol, which was passed unanimously by city council, dictate that a rave should be in a building that's properly zoned for such an event. There are also guidelines for capacity, fire exits, ventilation and water supply, as well as requirements for the number of ambulance workers and police officers on hand.
According to the city protocol, one paid-duty officer (PDO) is required for every 500 ravers.
Goin' Deep had planned a party for about 8,000, which would have meant hiring 16 to 20 officers for the night. But Stanford says police demanded that promoters bring the total to 70.
"There really isn't violence at raves," she says. "There isn't a great need for paid-duty officers. We're augmenting their budgets for PDOs in uniform that are in the parking lot drinking coffee."
Stanford says promoters are also being required to pay for the presence of undercover officers. "That is a dangerous precedent," she says. "When that type of thing becomes required for people to congregate -- whoa."
Stanford's comments follow two recent monster raves downtown that resulted in scores of drug-related charges.
In March, 19 people were arrested at the Better Living Centre during what was described as Toronto's biggest-ever rave raid. Reports of additional arrests at Goin' Deep's event began filtering out hours after the 8pm start time at the same venue last Saturday, eventually totalling 57 drug-related charges against 24 people.
Attempts to reach Goin' Deep honchos were unsuccessful.
Police spokesperson Constable Devin Kealey says police don't release the number of paid-duty officers working any given party. But he agrees that an estimate of 70 would be accurate for Saturday's rave.
"It was significant," he says. "I can tell you that. There was definitely high police visibility.... That would be a fair number. It would be in that neighbourhood."
Kealey denies that police ignored the city's guidelines in requiring that promoters hire 70 officers for the night.
"My understanding is that they were using the protocol. The problem was the numbers given were all guesstimates of what the total number would be."
Sources agree that the police have more or less followed the protocols -- until recently.
City councillor and Police Services Board member Olivia Chow wants to know why cops are suddenly throwing them out.
"The protocols, after a lot of work from all city departments, were recommended and adopted by the city," she says.
Chow notes that city police helped set the protocols. "These are the folks that said using this number would be appropriate," says Chow. "Those guidelines should be followed. If they're not, then why do we bother having a protocol? We went through a whole process with 14 Division and other folks from the police. They said this is what's most appropriate. If they want to change it, let's just say it up front and we'll work on it. But don't just ignore it."
Stanford says police forced the cancellation of an April 15 rave at the Docks by ordering the promoter, Hullabaloo, to triple the number of paid-duty officers required by the protocol.
Since Hullabaloo had been expecting 2,600 people, only five or six paid-duty officers were needed. According to various sources, police demanded that as many as 15 be put on the payroll.
"The promoter, the head of the security company and the owner of the docks went to police, as per city protocol, to request paid-duty officers," Stanford says. The three were brought into a room with 16 police officers and told that if PDOs or undercover officers found any evidence of illegal activity -- like a single joint -- they would shut the party down, arrest the Docks' security chief and take away the club's liquor licence.
Hullabaloo pulled the plug.
For the moment, promoters aren't talking, and neither are Docks' crewmen. Stanford says that has everything to do with recent crackdowns on just about anything open after last call.
"They're afraid of the police," she says. "They fear repercussions. Promoters are feeling harassed, they're feeling like they can't make comments to the press, because they're being targeted already."
A Hullabaloo source who requested anonymity said, "I can confirm that they were asking for three times as many police as we had for our event at the Docks two months earlier. Same promoters, same venue, nothing bad happened at the Docks, yet they were asking for three times as many cops. They wanted enough police to shut the party down should they need to do so.
"They told me that they don't recognize the protocols."
NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT
The Police Services Board has asked Chief Julian Fantino to come up with a policy on paid-duty work. In the meantime, it seems to be open season.
At 51 Division, Superintendent Don Mantle has expressed concern about the amount of paid-duty time being put in at raves. His statement came during the 51 Division community forum with Fantino on April 18. "Our foot-patrol officers on several occasions were asked to work in other divisions," said Mantle. "This was because of several raves and special events being carried out in the downtown core. This became a concern because the community wants foot-patrol officers from 51 Division to address 51 Division concerns."
Officers on paid duty make a standard hourly wage of $44, a figure that rises with rank. If more than three cops are hired, a commander must also be put on the payroll at $48 an hour and up. When 10 paid-duty officers are hired, a second commander has to be signed on, and so on.
Typical paid-duty gigs include rock concerts, baseball games, society weddings and bingos. Corporate Communications Staff Sergeant Fred Ellarby says there is no formula for calculating the number of paid-duty officers required for these events.
"It would depend on the group," he says. "If Lawrence Welk is coming, you'll need one guy at the door. When Ozzy Osbourne was in during his bat-biting stage, it was a lot. It really is going to depend on what your target audience is, what the activity is and a million different variables."
Ellarby says there are no figures on the number of person hours Toronto cops put in each year. Same for the average cop's paid-duty take.
"There is no average officer. I think I've done two or three paid duties in my career, as opposed to some guys who do them every time they're off. The last time I was on shift, there was one guy on my platoon that did most of the paid duties. Other people never did them, so there really isn't an average."
Ellarby says some officers "want to do it as a full-time job and will spend as much of their off-duty time as they can."
http://www.eye.net/eye/issue/issue_04.27.00/news/cops.html
The old protocal was ... for every 500 ppl = 1 cop, the new one is 25ppl = 1 cop
You do the math! Pretty fucking sad we lost it all ...
FUCKING cops. I WILL bitch to my cousin who is attending cop college in August. Apparently he has a huge recommendation from the chief event. We'll see.
So far, it is fucking BS.
THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. I CANT BELIEVE THE SHIT IM HEARING TODAY!!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Jem_hadar THAT'S FUCKING BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!!!!! JESUS FUCKING CHRIST. I CANT BELIEVE THE SHIT IM HEARING TODAY!! |
Same old shit. Draw a line, and see how far back you can stretch it. Seems everyone is just concerned with screwing the next guy over. Sad to see that our 'finest' aren't exempt from this.
From now on ... no one on TOTA should bitch about, how come Toronto can't throw massive events like the ones they have in Europe???
Myself and many old skoolers, have been telling you noobs for months and months about what happen in 1999 with Rave Protocal, I finaly found a nice artical to show you guys.
PODs are one of the major reasons ... the others are the convention centres with their own protocals.
Convention Centre Protocals :
Venue Rental 50,000 - 100,000 depending on size
PPL capped to 6000ppl
Venue must be cleaned and cleared by 6am, there for you event must end at 3am. Cleaning and stage crew comes in to clean and clear everything out.
Paid Duty Officers must be on site with whatever the recent city protocal. (25 ppl = 1 cop x 44 - 48+ hr)
Many promoters have been trying so hard to find a loop hole or some how by pass this unfair protocal for years, but it's impossible in Toronto. It's the carved in stone and never can be changed.
Yeah, this is old news. Haven't you noticed in the past couple of years the police presence at events and even foot patrol has nearly trippled? Most of the time they're standing around doing shit or harassing people.
| quote: |
| "It would depend on the group," he says. "If Lawrence Welk is coming, you'll need one guy at the door. When Ozzy Osbourne was in during his bat-biting stage, it was a lot. It really is going to depend on what your target audience is, what the activity is and a million different variables." |
^^E2EK1EL, Amb_ and Tordan are right....this is old newz now.
IMHO This is one Facked up city!!! 
The beauracracy is getting worse and worse. I'm so tired of it 
and it is this, that makes me ashamed of our system. I'm sure life in Amsterdam is way better than this crap, even if the homes are cramped and tiny and the work is tight....it can't be worse than the direction Toronto has been heading for over the past few years (Tiny little condo's at mega prices. Being taxed for everything except the air we breathe....which is probably their next target)
It saddens me to say that I lost the faith and trust in our Police force and govt officials since 2000, when action officially started against Raves. It's interesting how they'll allow non-violent raves, so long as they can extort $$$ from it.
Why is it that I don't see them extorting $$$ from the hip hop club owners...Seems to me, they are always guaranteed to have some form of armed violence whereas Raves never do.
P.S. TO THOSE IN POLITICAL ARGUMENT MODE.....GET LOST THIS IS NOT ABOUT POLITICS....IT'S ABOUT CANADIAN CORRUPTION & GREED BY OUR COPS WHO FEEL THEY CAN BEND THE LAW....AND THEIR SUPERIORS, WHO FEEL THEY ARE ABOVE THE LAW!!!
old news....We used to have such a healthy scene, why is it that politicians and the public fear what they don't understand, and take such an adversarial stance towards other people's good time. What happened to choice and individuality?
SAVE THE RAVERS FROM THEMSELVES!!!
This still goes on today.
Look at those 6 pay-duty coppers that sit outside Guv all night in the van (eating hotdogs, shottin' the shit).
Its really too bad that it has to be this way.
After going up to montreal for swirl back in may I really saw how great things could go if things like this didn't get in the way.
Police were there actually helping work the door and then once you got inside there were no problems.
Seems like a better system to have police helping and visible rather than cracking down on the promoters and individual drug users.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by amb_ Old news |
re: unreal..
Ya i agree is kinda old news but non the less very interesting for those who have only started partying in recent days. I remember hearing about stories from friends back in early high school and stuff about raves and the huge venues they used to be held at. I only wish i had the chance to experience a party in the 90s with the friends i knew that partied back then. But then i think had i started partying back then, i dont know where or what i would be doing with my life now.
Re: re: unreal..
| quote: |
| Originally posted by moneyman Ya i agree is kinda old news but non the less very interesting for those who have only started partying in recent days. I remember hearing about stories from friends back in early high school and stuff about raves and the huge venues they used to be held at. I only wish i had the chance to experience a party in the 90s with the friends i knew that partied back then. But then i think had i started partying back then, i dont know where or what i would be doing with my life now. |
Yes this is very old new, this artical was made in 2000.
You have to educate the new commers and give them the reason / turth of what we went through in the past. It's not like I look down on the noobs at all.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by E2EK1EL Yes this is very old new, this artical was made in 2000. You have to educate the new commers and give them the reason / turth of what we went through in the past. It's not like I look down on the noobs at all. |
old news, but at least it gives those newer to the scene an idea of why we can't do what other places can. It sucks, but it's where we live.
What I don't understand is why they bust our balls so much when there is so much more violence in regular clubs. Toronto and Canada are so narrowminded with their laws, its horrible.
No drinking until you are 19
Bars close at 2:00 AM
X amount of paid duty officers required for an afterhours event
blah blah blah
The thing is, we are so entrenched in our ways that any change will cause people to either freak out or abuse their priviledges. The rest of the world is just fine with the way they live because they are brought up with those rules hammered into their heads. We can live in any setting, its change that we have problems with.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by rabbitjoker This still goes on today. Look at those 6 pay-duty coppers that sit outside Guv all night in the van (eating hotdogs, shottin' the shit). |
It was the whole undemocratic rave crackdown that opened my eyes to sham being pulled on Canadians in our so called free society. That is the event that started my political views about how much we truely live in a dictatorship. We like to fool ourselves into thinking we are free and liberal when pretty much our whole lives in canada have already been predetermined by the government from what kind of dog you can own, to what time you can stay out at night to even what kind of alcohol you can drink and which tv channels you are allowed to watch.
Its pathetic
And yet how many police officers are present at a hip-hop club?? (where 90% of club violence takes place?)
I have been going to raves/dance events/festivals for 5 years now and have not seen one SPEC of violence.....
I have also been going to hip hop clubs for 6 years, and have heard of MANY shootings, seen MANY MANY fights, and have even been PRESENT at a stabbing.....
makes sense
Its all about control which leads to payoffs money and votes.
We have highly organized corruption. So well organized that most people are oblivious to it.
this is why Montreal will always be ahead of us in the Major event functions. Sad to say but there are alot of close minded people in Toronto. I can't believe that i am going to be a cop....oh for shame
| quote: |
| Originally posted by yankeeBaby And yet how many police officers are present at a hip-hop club?? (where 90% of club violence takes place?) I have been going to raves/dance events/festivals for 5 years now and have not seen one SPEC of violence..... I have also been going to hip hop clubs for 6 years, and have heard of MANY shootings, seen MANY MANY fights, and have even been PRESENT at a stabbing..... makes sense |
You are so right about this one....weird how our president will enforce "good Christian" values in so many aspects of our lives, but can't (or won't) control the damn music videos on tv. Friggin jesus.
my boyfriend is a bouncer at a hip hop club in NY and has seen more violent shite than I care to see in a lifetime....
(note: thank god, the club was taken over this year by new owners and cleaned up a bit...I don't worry as much that he doesn't come back alive from his damn job!)
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