Muslim scholars slam London attack

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-- Muslim scholars slam London attack

Posted by josh4 on Jul-16-2005 17:13:

Muslim scholars slam London attack

quote:
Muslim scholars slam London attack

LONDON, England (AP) -- Muslim leaders and scholars met at London's largest mosque to condemn the July 7 terrorist attacks in the British capital, saying the perpetrators violated the Quran by killing innocent civilians and that no one should consider them martyrs.

But the 22 imams and scholars stopped short of condemning all suicide bombings, saying those that target occupying forces in countries such as Israel and Iraq are sometimes justified.

"There should be a clear distinction between the suicide bombing of those who are trying to defend themselves from occupiers, which is something different from those who kill civilians, which is a big crime," said Sayed Mohammed Musawi, the head of the World Islamic League in London.

"The media in the West are mixing the difference between these two, and the result is that some of our Muslim youth are becoming more frustrated and they think that both are the same, even though Muslim law forbids killing any innocent lives."

He spoke at a news conference that the leaders and scholars held Friday at the London Central Mosque after reading their statement condemning the July 7 attacks, and everyone in the group appeared to agree with Musawi.

In their statement, which quoted the Quran, the imams and scholars said the terrorism in London by a small group of radicals had victimized Muslims around the world by raising "Islamophobia" among the general public.

"We are firmly of the view that these killings had absolutely no sanction in Islam, nor is there any justification whatsoever in our noble religion for such evil actions. It is our understanding that those who carried out the bombings in London should in no sense be regarded as martyrs," the statement said.

It urged all Muslims and non-Muslims to help authorities investigate the crime and to punish those who helped plan the atrocity.

The statement also said that racism, unemployment and economic deprivation that Muslims face in poor sections of cities such as Leeds -- where three of the suspected bombers lived -- "may be alienating some of our children and driving them toward the path of anger and desperation" in ways that are prohibited by Islam.

The statement did not mention the fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Israel or Chechnya, but it urged "the international community to work toward just and lasting peace settlements in the world's areas of conflict and help eliminate the grievances that seem to nurture a spiral of violence."

Because the London attacks have been linked by the media to Islam, the statement said, they have damaged relations between Muslims and non-Muslims in Britain and undermined long-standing interfaith efforts by Christian, Jewish and Muslim groups.

By portraying the terrorist attacks as a Muslim problem, the media have engaged in "character assassinations" of Muslim scholars and "denigration" of the Muslim community, the statement said.

Find this article at:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/e...m.ap/index.html

well they finally publicly condemn terrorist attacks but whos fault is it that some terrorists mix up "right" suicide bombings and "wrong" ones? ours, the West's fault.

Posted by George Smiley on Jul-16-2005 17:19:

Re: Muslim scholars slam London attack

quote:
Originally posted by josh4
well they finally publicly condemn terrorist attacks but whos fault is it that some terrorists mix up "right" suicide bombings and "wrong" ones? ours, the West's fault.

What do you mean "finally"??

Posted by hardcore trancer on Jul-16-2005 19:21:

Re: Muslim scholars slam London attack

Posted by Yoepus on Jul-16-2005 19:38:

Re: Re: Muslim scholars slam London attack

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Muslims and most muslim leaders have always condemned terrorists attacks.so wtf are you talking about?

Right... as long as they aren't in Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan....

Posted by josh4 on Jul-16-2005 19:43:

Re: Re: Muslim scholars slam London attack

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Muslims and most muslim leaders have always condemned terrorists attacks.so wtf are you talking about?

well i meant "officially" as in having leaders put pen to paper

Posted by hardcore trancer on Jul-16-2005 20:16:

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Originally posted by Yoepus
Right... as long as they aren't in Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan....

Incase you forgot there is a war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

and Isreal well lets not make this another Israel vs. Palestine thread.

Posted by josh4 on Jul-16-2005 20:34:

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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Incase you forgot there is a war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

and Isreal well lets not make this another Israel vs. Palestine thread.

ya wouldn't want one of you guys to blow it up

i'm kidding! really. lol

Posted by Yoepus on Jul-16-2005 21:21:

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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Incase you forgot there is a war going on in Iraq and Afghanistan.

and Isreal well lets not make this another Israel vs. Palestine thread.

So theres a war, right. Do muslims not believe in following Geneva conventions then? Is that not in line with their religious beliefs and teaching?

Posted by svens_bath on Jul-16-2005 21:25:

well that muslim spokeperson is clearly confused himself then, as suicide is forbidden in the religion..so there cant really be any disticntion between the places suicide bombers attack. this is why i think that education will go a long way to slow the recruitment of terrorists..if they can understand that they arent actually going to heaven then they wont join up...the problem is that a lot of the muslim spokespeople/preachers (as are most of the general public i would guess) are misonformed about issues in the world, and in their own religion

Posted by hardcore trancer on Jul-16-2005 23:55:

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Posted by tamk on Jul-17-2005 00:00:

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quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
So theres a war, right. Do muslims not believe in following Geneva conventions then? Is that not in line with their religious beliefs and teaching?

isn't bombing civilian weddings against geneva conventions, what about shooting an unarmed man and his son on the streets on palestine.

collateral damage you will say, and there you have the schism in opinion.

most of the mulsim world don't see the difference in what some people in the west are doing their people and what some of their people are doing that they think only affects the west.

Posted by Yoepus on Jul-17-2005 18:17:

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Originally posted by tamk
isn't bombing civilian weddings against geneva conventions, what about shooting an unarmed man and his son on the streets on palestine.

no these examples are not against geneva conveition.

Torture, indiscriminate killing of civilians, massacres, transfers, shooting at neutral (medical) targets, abusing neutral protection, hiding in civilian quarters, not wearing a uniform, these are all violations.

quote:

most of the mulsim world don't see the difference in what some people in the west are doing their people and what some of their people are doing that they think only affects the west.

Perhaps this is because there religious leaders do not attempt to educate them of these differences.

Posted by hardcore trancer on Jul-17-2005 20:03:

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Posted by Yoepus on Jul-17-2005 20:34:

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quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
would you like me to show you how many times the U.S has broken the Geneva conventions?

This isn't my point.

My point is that the US says it fights by Geneva Convention - the Americans want to fight fair.

Muslim terrorist do not recongize, signed, or agreed to Geneva - they have no intention of fighting fair.

I am saying that perhaps it should be the duty of religious imams and muslims leaders to say, "hey fight fair".

Posted by tamk on Jul-17-2005 20:38:

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quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
Torture, indiscriminate killing of civilians, massacres, transfers, shooting at neutral (medical) targets, abusing neutral protection, hiding in civilian quarters, not wearing a uniform, these are all violations.

half of what do desribe is what the US and Israel have been and are guilty off. murder of innocent civilains has not been the exclusive purvey of muslim terrorists.

in my mind there is no difference to what happend in london and what happed to that wedding party in iraq and numerous of other places in the muslim world. they are all just as abhorrent.

Posted by tamk on Jul-17-2005 20:41:

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quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus

I am saying that perhaps it should be the duty of religious imams and muslims leaders to say, "hey fight fair".

the geneva conventions were signed by "nations-states" with the ability to defend themselves. what about those who havent the privilage of being defended by a state, like in bosnia, who do they ask for deliverance.

Posted by Yoepus on Jul-17-2005 21:00:

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quote:
Originally posted by tamk
the geneva conventions were signed by "nations-states" with the ability to defend themselves. what about those who havent the privilage of being defended by a state, like in bosnia, who do they ask for deliverance.

military groups of no nationality (.i.e Partisans, gurellias, other para-military forces) can be signors and protected by genvea under the condition that they abide by its conventions.

Posted by Yoepus on Jul-17-2005 21:03:

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quote:
Originally posted by tamk
the geneva conventions were signed by "nations-states" with the ability to defend themselves. what about those who havent the privilage of being defended by a state, like in bosnia, who do they ask for deliverance.

I see. I think exaclty the same way. I think there is no difference between a man who got into a car wreck and a serial-psycopathic-murderer.

Posted by tamk on Jul-17-2005 22:38:

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quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
I see. I think exaclty the same way. I think there is no difference between a man who got into a car wreck and a serial-psycopathic-murderer.

great analogy. i applaud your analysis.

Posted by Yoepus on Jul-18-2005 02:58:

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quote:
Originally posted by tamk
great analogy. i applaud your analysis.

right, there is a difference between killing somebody and mudering someone.

Posted by tamk on Jul-18-2005 03:30:

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quote:
Originally posted by Yoepus
right, there is a difference between killing somebody and mudering someone.

yea bombing a wedding party is like a car crash, the pilot wasn't paying attention to the target.