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British police murder innocent Brazilian

quote:

Shot man not connected to bombing Police cordoned off a 200-metre area around the station A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was unconnected to the incidents, police have confirmed. The man, who died at Stockwell Tube on Friday, has been named by police as Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27. Two other men have been arrested and are being questioned after bombers targeted three Tube trains and a bus. A suspect package found in north-west London may be linked to Thursday's attacks, police believe. 'Tragedy' Brazilian diplomats in London said they had been told by police the man who was shot dead by police on Friday was a Brazilian. An earlier Scotland Yard statement read: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification. "We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005. "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets." Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London, said: "The police acted to do what they believed necessary to protect the lives of the public. "This tragedy has added another victim to the toll of deaths for which the terrorists bear responsibility." A package was found by a member of the public in bushes in Little Wormwood Scrubs on Saturday morning. Good response to CCTV plea 'They unloaded five bullets' A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "Explosives officers attended the scene. An initial examination suggests that the object may be linked to devices found at four locations in London on July 21." Police said it would be subject to "detailed forensic analysis". Police have also raided a house in Streatham Hill, south London, in connection with the failed attacks. The statement confirmed the man had been followed by police from a house in Tulse Hill that was under surveillance. His death is being investigated by officers from the MPS Directorate of Professional Standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. John O'Connor, former commander of the Met Police, told the BBC the consequences of the shooting were likely to be "quite horrendous". He said he expected officers to face criminal charges, and other officers could even refuse to carry weapons. But Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights group Liberty, said it was too early to judge what the effects would be. She called for a "prompt, comprehensive and independent investigation".

Heard he worked as an electrican and was going to work. Murdering scum. Should be given life. Ken livingstone has some fuckn cheeck aswell.

Its a shame. and now the British police has some explaining to do.

wouldnt like to be a muslim/dark skinned person living in london now, they all have targets on there heads(5 of them aswell no doubt)

demon is that marduk in your avatar??? that guy sucks! worst player! anyway, what the hell was the guy thinking? lets run from the cops whats the worst that can happen?!

I don't really blame the London police they are inexperianced with guns and handling terror as well as most countries. This does not give them a right to kill every dark/muslim person their its just likely that mistakes are bound to happen.

Infairness, if he was brazialian maybe his english wasnt the best?

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid I don't really blame the London police they are inexperianced with guns and handling terror as well as most countries.

There actually one of the countries with the most experience in handling terrorists.

apperantly the guy was an illegal immigrant that didnt know english at all
i thought british cops dont carry guns specifically because of this reason ?

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Originally posted by Goashem apperantly the guy was an illegal immigrant that didnt know english at all i thought british cops dont carry guns specifically because of this reason ?

Special armed police forces do though. THey had been following since he left his apartment.


Makes you wonder, why they didnt try and arrest outside the apartment? If they were so worried about the publics safety, why wait till he reaches a fucking train station until confronting him?!

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Originally posted by Michael19 Special armed police forces do though. THey had been following since he left his apartment. Makes you wonder, why they didnt try and arrest outside the apartment? If they were so worried about the publics safety, why wait till he reaches a fucking train station until confronting him?!

o o its a conspiracy

Its a very sad thing that this had to happen, and its a very hard way to learn a lesson. You cant jump to conclusions and shoot anyone who looks suspect.

On the other hand, I can sort of understand why they would do it. A dark skinned man, in a heavy jacket in the middle of summer, going into the train station, and form what cops say, he was looking suspicious in the way he acted. PLUS he started running from them.

Like someone mentioned, these police officers are not really trained for this kind of stuff, and with the mixture of their anxiety and adrenaline, it proved to be fatal for this person. Its sad to know that the terrorist are enjoying this display of paranoia.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 Makes you wonder, why they didnt try and arrest outside the apartment? If they were so worried about the publics safety, why wait till he reaches a fucking train station until confronting him?!

Because if he wasn't carrying out an imminent attack then it would be in the police's best interest to follow him, see where he goes, and see who he interacts with. That way they can capture the entire cell instead of taking one guy down while the rest escape. So in going to the train station and acting "suspcious" according to reports, it probably seemed like he was going to carry out an attack. At which point the police attempted to arrest him and get him to stop. If he ignored these orders and warnings, and proceeded to run to a crowded train, I can conceivably imagine that to the officers on the ground, he may have posed an iminent danger to the public and thus warranted lethal force. You people are all calling them murderers, and the only details you have are 5 or so bylines. Yup I'm sure that's all the info you need to know for sure that these policemen are murderers.

So what if the brazillian had been a suicide bomber? If he had been under surveillance the police has some reasonable suspicion that he was a terrorist. What if the policemen had warned him to stop, he ignored them, the police had a chance to stop him but didn't, and he ended up blowing himself up when he reached the crowded train, inflicting 20-30 deaths? You all would be calling for the cops to be fired ...

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Because if he wasn't carrying out an imminent attack then it would be in the police's best interest to follow him, see where he goes, and see who he interacts with. That way they can capture the entire cell instead of taking one guy down while the rest escape. So in going to the train station and acting "suspcious" according to reports, it probably seemed like he was going to carry out an attack. At which point the police attempted to arrest him and get him to stop. If he ignored these orders and warnings, and proceeded to run to a crowded train, I can conceivably imagine that to the officers on the ground, he may have posed an iminent danger to the public and thus warranted lethal force. You people are all calling them murderers, and the only details you have are 5 or so bylines. Yup I'm sure that's all the info you need to know for sure that these policemen are murderers.

THey thought he was a suspect from the failed bombings a day before, so surely it was clear they thought he was a imminent threat. I find it hard to believe how he suddenly started acting suspiciously only when he entered the train station.

It looks rather clear cut at the moment.

Whether he knew English or not, if you see armed officers chasing your ass, yelling at you, you STOP.
Who the hell runs??? I'm sure that's exactly what the officers were thinking too when they made their decision.
However, 5 bullets is a little excessive.

I feel sorry for all the muslims in London right now .Their lives wont never be the same.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer I feel sorry for all the muslims in London right now .Their lives wont never be the same.

I would go beyond London.
I'm sure it's rough on all of them in the Western culture.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Whether he knew English or not, if you see armed officers chasing your ass, yelling at you, you STOP. Who the hell runs??? I'm sure that's exactly what the officers were thinking too when they made their decision. However, 5 bullets is a little excessive.

They were plain clothes cops, how they hell was he meant to know?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Whether he knew English or not, if you see armed officers chasing your ass, yelling at you, you STOP. Who the hell runs??? I'm sure that's exactly what the officers were thinking too when they made their decision. However, 5 bullets is a little excessive.

yup 5 bullets in the head is waaaaaaaaaay tooo excessive.

every muslim in London now is walking around with a bullseye on their head.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 THey thought he was a suspect from the failed bombings a day before, so surely it was clear they thought he was a imminent threat. I find it hard to believe how he suddenly started acting suspiciously only when he entered the train station. It looks rather clear cut at the moment.

How is it clear cut? You don't even have the direct accounts from the officers themselves for christ's sake. Or the detailed account from any witnesses. At the most you have one or two specific quotes that the media included in an article that's less than 3 or 4 paragraphs. That's clear cut?? He didn't have a backpack which has been the MO of all previous terrorist attacks. Maybe they thought he was going to meet with co-conspirators to plan new attacks. You find it hard to believe he started acting suspicously when he got to the train station? On what mountain of evidence are you basing this on? I'm all ears ... you clearly have some additional insight in this whole affair that the rest of us lack ...

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer yup 5 bullets in the head is waaaaaaaaaay tooo excessive. every muslim in London now is walking around with a bullseye on their head.

It wasn't 5 bullets in the head to the best of my knowledge. And 5 bullets is not that unreasonable. If two or three officers are firing while running and they are shooting to kill, You can easily fire 2-3 rounds in one second alone.

Occ:

Based on your earlier post I guess it would be better to endanger the riding public to a potential stray shot fired from a policemans' gun than to apprehend the suspect and interrogate him?

If proper police procedure were to be done it would not have to be to endanger anyone not involved.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 Occ: Based on your earlier post I guess it would be better to endanger the riding public to a potential stray shot fired from a policemans' gun than to apprehend the suspect and interrogate him? If proper police procedure were to be done it would not have to be to endanger anyone not involved.

I have no idea what the situational layout of the event was. Perhaps the policemen had a clear shot. If they clearly tried to apprehend him and failed, that's not a viable option anymore. It seems their options were:

A) Use lethal force.

or

B) Allow him to get on the train.

Option A does not necessarily mean that the public was endangered. Option B clearly could have. So perhaps they followed the proper procedures that lead to an unfortunate mishap. Granted I'm speculating as well, but I'm not arguing for their guilt or innocence. I'm arguing against any kind of premature judging with so little facts.

"As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified," said Whitby.
"He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time.
"He half-tripped, was half-pushed to the floor. The policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand, he held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him.
'He looked like a cornered fox'

When the armed officers reached the platform with their guns drawn, they shouted at everyone to get down. As waiting passengers and those already on a train that had pulled into the station dived to the floor, the suspect jumped on the train. Two witnesses said that as he entered the train he tripped, ending up half in and half out of the carriage, on all fours. Within seconds, as the clock tower outside the station chimed 10am, the officers caught up with the man and pushed him hard to the floor. Witnesses said that they then fired up to five bullets into him at close range, killing him instantly.
Suspect shot dead 'had no bomb'

You've been watching too many crime dramas like NYPD Blue or CSI.

EDIT:

If the man was suspected to be carrying a bomb then why in the world would anyone try and subdue him physically on an occupied carriage where the possibility of detonation is high?

The autopsy report on entry and exit wounds would be very very interesting here.

quote:

Originally posted by ogvh5150 "As the man got on the train I looked at his face. He looked from left to right, but he basically looked like a cornered rabbit, like a cornered fox. He looked absolutely petrified," said Whitby. "He sort of tripped but they were hotly pursuing him and couldn't have been more than two or three feet behind him at this time. "He half-tripped, was half-pushed to the floor. The policeman nearest to me had the black automatic pistol in his left hand, he held it down to the guy and unloaded five shots into him. 'He looked like a cornered fox' When the armed officers reached the platform with their guns drawn, they shouted at everyone to get down. As waiting passengers and those already on a train that had pulled into the station dived to the floor, the suspect jumped on the train. Two witnesses said that as he entered the train he tripped, ending up half in and half out of the carriage, on all fours. Within seconds, as the clock tower outside the station chimed 10am, the officers caught up with the man and pushed him hard to the floor. Witnesses said that they then fired up to five bullets into him at close range, killing him instantly. Suspect shot dead 'had no bomb' You've been watching too many crime dramas like NYPD Blue or CSI. EDIT: If the man was suspected to be carrying a bomb then why in the world would anyone try and subdue him physically on an occupied carriage where the possibility of detonation is high? The autopsy report on entry and exit wounds would be very very interesting here.

Huh? How is my argument that since we don't know all the facts at hand we shouldn't rush to judgement imply that I've been watching too much tv crime dramas? Like I said, it would be nice to have the account from the police officers you know just so we have perspective from all sides.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I've been watching too much tv crime dramas?

i've been trying to tell you that for a long time

quote:

Originally posted by occrider How is it clear cut? You don't even have the direct accounts from the officers themselves for christ's sake. Or the detailed account from any witnesses. At the most you have one or two specific quotes that the media included in an article that's less than 3 or 4 paragraphs. That's clear cut?? He didn't have a backpack which has been the MO of all previous terrorist attacks. Maybe they thought he was going to meet with co-conspirators to plan new attacks. You find it hard to believe he started acting suspicously when he got to the train station? On what mountain of evidence are you basing this on? I'm all ears ... you clearly have some additional insight in this whole affair that the rest of us lack ...

Direct accounts from the officers? Not needed. THey will try and cover there assess as much as possible, its going to be very hard to believe what they say.

Now going on what impartial witnessess have said, its seems clear cut to me. Obviously i will wait to see it all come out, but i cant see my opinion on the subject changing alot.

They thought he was going with the conspirators later on? If they felt he had no bomb and wasnt a threat why shoot him 5 times in the head?

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