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Beatmatching - End Mixing
Hi.
Been dj-ing for awhile now, but still learning beatmatching though. When i'm beatmatching and doing a little set of tracks, i can get the tracks beatmacthed pretty gud, then i test it over to make sure they are running at the same speed. They sound pretty equal. Then i cue up the track and start blending in the 2 tracks. But for seem reason the tracks get out of sync. I don't understand because when i tested it, the 2 tracks were equal. Is it because of the cueing do you think?
Thanks, Chris.
It will only stay in phase if you're EXACTLY on the beat. If there's even a .05% difference between the two tracks, they will go out of phase during a long layer.
how long do you test them for...
i use this for the moment to test my beatmaching...and i run them for at least a min and see if they run out of sync...usually if they don't then you should be pretty safe to asume they will not.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJ_Ikronix It will only stay in phase if you're EXACTLY on the beat. If there's even a .05% difference between the two tracks, they will go out of phase during a long layer. |
I don't really know howl ong i test it for. When i think it's equal and ste them both off and see how long they last without drifting. If they stay in tune for quite a bit i leave them. I think it's my cueing. You could set them off in tune but obviously one is faster than the other because it is never perfect, so if you cue it up not exactly on line then they will drift. So i might have to get them on cue properly.
Thanks for the advice.
do you test to see if they match by letting them play before or after you cue?
again i'm using cdj 1000 mk2, that might be the one thing that helps because i can cue and just press play without having to worry about making sure the cd gets up to speed. what do you use?
stuff that i do...is i find the right bpm, then cue and then try to see if they stay in sink...once all that is done...then i press cue and wait for when the time comes to bring it in.
^you will rarely drop a track "perfectly" without having to make adjustments. this is what i do.. and this has never failed me yet..
you get the track beatmatched as well as you possibly can. then cue it back.. drop it when you want. use the pitch slider to match it up (hopefully it should only take you about 4 beats or so) and start dropping it in. if it goes out of sync.. split it in two (separate headphone cups) so you can tell if the incoming track is too fast or too slow.
if it's too slow, kick the slider sharply up, then move it back to just a hair faster than the original speed (this will hopefully increase the bpm just enough to get it back in sync). here's a shitty drawing (* being where the slider is at, =>showing the movement of the slider)
step 1: -10 ----------0---*-------- +10
step 2: -10 ----------0----====>* +10
step 3: -10 ----------0----*<==-- +10
if it's too fast.. do the opposite. but instead of kicking it up, kick it down quickly, then move it back to just a hair slower than the original speed.
step 1: -10 ----------0------*--- +10
step 2: -10 ----------0*<==---- +10
step 3: -10 ----------0--==>*-- +10
(terrible drawing, i know. that and when you move the pitch slider back, you just move it a fraction of an inch faster or slower than originally placed)
what you're doing is correcting the speed of the track, then moving the slider to just a little faster or a little slower than what you had it originally to keep it beatmatched. if it goes out of sync again, lather, rinse, repeat.
imo you shouldn't depend on getting the tracks matched (or "testing them" like you said) at the beginning and expect them to stay in sync when you actually drop the track later on. sometimes if you're doing a quick mix, you don't even have the time to match them first, you just gotta drop it and trust yourself. hope this helped you out
oh yeah on a sidenote, people always say to use the pitch slider instead of putting pressure on the platter to correct the track.. when i first started i never listened to that advice, but now i realize that you'll have a MUCH more accurate mix if you use the sliders.. so train yourself to depend on them now and it'll save you a lot of time later.
edit: had to redo the pictures
nice diagrams...they definitely hit the point...
anyhow...adjustments have to be made if the songs is out of sync...i never made reference to that...because i was trying to simply answer hiw question if anyone else tests before instead of simply just bringing the song...a lot of assumptions were made...you have enough time to set the tempo of your incoming track, enough time to test the bass..see if it matches...but the thing is you have the extra few minutes to fiddle around with the incoming song...
the reason why i try to test it before i actually drop the song is to make sure the slider is at the right point...because sometimes you may touch the slider too much and get it out of sync even more...therefore i try to help myself and beatmatch the best i can before i bring the song in...and by doing this i know that the songs are either in a good sync or fairly close...by matching the incoming song's beat to the outgoing song, but not playing it out yet, i can adjust the slider as many time as i want until i get it set at the point i want...so when i press play...i know the songs are at the same speed all it's left to do is allign the bass, and bring it in.
by doing this, i can just allign them by pushing the platter, or the bent buttons if it's a denon :P
hope that explains my reason for testing if the songs are in sync before...
Thanks alot guys, that helped alot. Will try that out.
I know what you mean though about just testing them. I need to beatmatch them as best as i can and then mix the track in and make adjustments throughout the mix, is that what your saying?
Cheers guys.
wacth out too, sometimes when your spinning vinyl you'll notice as the styllus gets to the center of the record the song goes a little faster. I usually wait til the end to match em up.
ajustments may not be necesary...but let's be seriuos most of the time they will be...
the only thing that i found is if i take that minute and sorta test to see if the songs are in sync before i bring it in, the ajustments are not that big...usually just a bit of a push to the platter...
and i've also noticed sometimes that the song may get a bit faster, enough to throw you of sync towards the end of the song...but then you need to know your songs...so practice 
Keep in mind I have cd-players.
What I do is listen to the next track in the cans to set the cue right on the first beat, or whenever I want to start bringing it in. Then hit the cue button so it goes back to the cue point and listen to the live track in the cans. On beat (and in-phrase) I hit the play button on the second track (fader still down), and use the pitch bend buttons to beatmatch the tracks. Once I hear them drifting, I use the pitchbend again, and if they drift farther apart, I pitch bend the opposite direction and move the slider. If they come closer, I move the slider in the same direction. This goes on until they are speedmatched as well as beatmatched, and usually takes no more than 20-30 seconds.
Afterwards, I let it play for about 30 seconds or so, this is generally enough for me to hear any slight drifting in beats, and I use this time to perform any acute corrections necessary, so that it's perfectly (or near-perfectly) beat and speedmatched.
Using this method, I was able to get tracks matched up 80% of the time within 3 days of getting my gear. After two weeks I was up to 90%, maybe 95%. Then I bought new cd players to start scratching, and my beatmatching dropped down to 50%, as I kept overcorrecting with the more sensitive players (Denon dns-5000). However, after about a month of practice, I can successfully pull off 3+ minute mixes, which allows me to do stuff with three decks (which, by the way, is much harder than it sounds).
^and the pitch bend function imo is the feature that sets cdj's apart from decks. i wish i had some cdjs
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Omega_Blue ^and the pitch bend function imo is the feature that sets cdj's apart from decks. i wish i had some cdjs |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Radders2003 Thanks alot guys, that helped alot. Will try that out. I know what you mean though about just testing them. I need to beatmatch them as best as i can and then mix the track in and make adjustments throughout the mix, is that what your saying? Cheers guys. |
It has to be what you said. When the stylus gets closer to the centre of the record. I can tell the record gets faster. This is why my mixes are a bit off.
When i'm beatmatching they are excellent, and they never drift. So i'm expecting a good mix. But as the stylus gets closer to the centre of the record, the record gets faster. I think this is unfair, is there anyway you can correct this problem?
I've just realised too, that it's not really my beatmatching that's the problem, it's the stylus to the centre of the record problem.
So could i beatmatch the records, and deliberately make the 2nd record faster than normal????
Cheers.
This is what i've been trying:
Beatmatching the 2 records, then when i'm about to drop the record, increase the pitch of the about to drop record, to make it come in line with the record that's already (this is because the record will start to play faster when it's near the centre of the record. Is that how you do it?
i never noticed that songs get faster the closer you get to the end of the groove! i've been on belt drives too long i guess, those things have a mind of their own. speeding up, slowing down... they are pretty moody.
speeding up the record is an option. i don't feel comfortable w/it, but it can be done. -it's the opposite of what i used to do all the time.
the reasons i don't feel comfortable w/it, is one, i'm not used to it... 2 because since this is new info, i have no concept as to how much faster the song gets (it can't be that much can it???) so i'm afraid of speeding up to much, and train wreck'n it.
I just don't know what to do. I'm starting to wonder if it's my decks!
It's weird, i'm beatmatching my records and they sound perfect, and the beats can stay in line for almost 40-50 seconds before they start to drift. Then i make a tiny adjustment and it sounds perfect. But when i drop the record in and then start to blend the 2 records together, they start to drift easily..?? But i've just tested it and it lasted for almost a minute? and yet they drift after 20 seconds or so..?
It could be a number of things:
radders, that happens to me a lot. i'm thinking it has to do w/the cueing than the turntables. maybe you're shoving the record a little too hard, or maybe you don't let it go just right, and it sticks to your hand a little and causes the record to drag alittle.
maybe in some cases it's because the song is getting faster as it the first record gets to the center of the groove.
sometimes the turntable just tweaks a little.
At first i thought it was the cueing, but if i miss-cue i can just speed up or slow down the record to get it back in sync.
Just another thought too, maybe it's becasue i beatmatch using split-cue? Maybe it miss-times the beatmatching or something? Would it be better if i beatmatched with one ear open to the live music and the other in the headphones? Because when using split-cue it might lag or something?
Thanks.
The only thing "wrong" with using split cue is that if you start spinning records out at venues then chances are the mixer they have setup won't have split cue.
Ah right ok.
So by using split-cue it has nothing to do with the records getting out of sync when mixing?
I will have to learn how the other way to beatmatch. Maybe that might correct the problem.
Omg i'm gettin really annoyed. It has to be my decks. I tried the one ear cup method for beatmatching, and i did ok, better than i thought i would do. With this method it's harder to spot which track track is going faster or slower. I managed to keep them in sync and got them beatmatched and they stayed in line, but oh dear when i came to mix the 2 records together, they went out of sync. Why the hell is it doing that? omg.
Thanks, Chris.
I'm going to buy some more decks.
Ok, i have been trying the one ear cup method for beatmatching, and to be honest it is much better than using split-cue!
It's easy to beatmatch, i don't know why though? At the end when mixing the 2 records together, it is smooth, a bit off, but hey that's just practice needed.
I did a good set earlier, wasn't very long but was trying out this new method. The only problem was cueing. That's just getting use to it and practicing cueing up the record with the one ear cup method. But i will practice using thsi method now.
Thanks
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