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Reasons not to pay for music
I am very curious to get you're opinions on this one:
Yesterday I had a discussion with somebody who thought he was allowed to use peer 2 peer networks to get copyrighted music for free.
He doesn't consider it to be stealing from an artist because he doesn't take something from him, the artist still has got some original on tape. Even if an artist doesn't want his music to be copied, he still thinks it's okay to get it. The word copyright itself doesn't have any meaning to him because he feels getting a copy is not worth paying for and should be free, because it's not the original.
Off course i know and can partly imagine other reasons for someone not to pay like:
- the real thing is too expensive
- not available locally
- try before you buy
- the music someone likes is not worth paying for
- nobody will feel the difference if i will get that song for free
- not willing to support all the jobs and money hunters in the industry
- dj's and producers make too much money in the first place
In a way I was a bit shocked, because he truely believes he isn't doing something wrong.
What do you guys think?
Why bother? Ignorance is bliss.
He will get a kick in his pants if he ever decides to write music and have it signed only to have it distributed all over the p2p networks months prior to actual release.
it all depends, if you really like a song and just download it for free with no intentions of ever buying it then your both selfish and shooting yourself in the foot as the artist you like isnt able to get those extra sales to help him produce more new tracks you will inevitably like (although not always the case - rvdb managed to release timeless about 50 times under different names 
).
HOWEVER: if i download a track and listen to it say 3 or 4 times and realise i dont like it and never play it again but dont delete it - is that wrong? the music has done its little promotional stint and it's not for me (the customer) so i dont buy it.
i think the only problem with mp3's (although people think there is many) is that people are willing to download music they really like for free with no intention of ever buying it - as opposed to probably 90%, if not more, of downloads which are left to rot in some directory in your hard drive after 3 listens.
I think the bottom line is, if people really like music, they SHOULD pay for it.
I really don't understand the attitude towards downloading that some people display. I have a few friends that love certain tracks or certain artists, and yet they do not pay ANY money for the music that they enjoy. These people have literally not bought any CDs or singles in years. 
Inevitably, it is these same people that will probably complain about the lack of good music or the decline in the quality of releases.
How can they expect the scene to survive if nobody is supporting it financially? SOMEBODY has to pay, and yet they see no problem with downloading as much as they want for free. Somebody else pays for it, right? SELFISH. SELFISH. SELFISH.
I think it is extremely selfish for these people to continue to download and listen to the music they love for free without contributing anything. If the artists they love don't get paid, they will stop making music and we all lose.
It is true that not everybody can afford to spend a lot of money on music, but surely most people can afford to spend at least a little bit of money. Today there are an increasing number of online stores offering digital downloads for as little as $1 a track, so theargument that they can't afford to buy music is very weak.
I agree with Ste on many points. It is not fair to expect people to pay for songs that they don't even like. This is where the "try before you buy" argument comes into play. People need the oppurtunity to listen to and evaluate a track before they buy it. It is is very difficult to get a good impression of a track from just a small sample or a low bitrate sample. In this case, I support the notion that people can "try before they buy" by downloading the mp3, as long as they intend to pay for the music that they truly appreciate and love.
Sadly, this does not happen as often as it should
If people download music with no intention of ever buying it, then i think that is quite sad, and very greedy as well.
If somebody truly loves a song but they do not pay for it, then i consider this to be stealing from the artist. They are taking something from the artist (great music!) but giving nothing in return. It has been made more difficult to determine when people should and shouldn't pay for music because it is so freely available on the internet today as mp3s. People are far less likely to pay for something once they have already got it for free!!!! It is simply human nature and people are very reluctant to pay once they already have the music as mp3. 
Also, one more thing. You can't 'return' a digital download and get a refund if you don't like it. However, in the old days you could probably take a CD back to a store and get a refund if you really didn't like it at all. People may feel cheated or dissatisfied after paying for music that they don't end up liking, and in turn this may result in them downloading more and buying fewer tracks. Perhaps ome sort of accountability or refund mechanism is needed. I'm not sure. This is another problem that has arisen now that we are living in the digital age. I don't know the answer to this problem, but it poses a big challenge for the music industry.
Finally to repeat the point i raised earlier:
I think the bottom line is, if people really love music, they SHOULD pay for it.
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| Originally posted by A.J. |
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| Originally posted by Trance Nutter good post. |
I just added some more with the edit
Could someone supply me with the stats on how much artists make per album sale, per vinyl sale, or per mp3 sale?
Frankly, I think it's all bullshit and the corporate ******s in the grey suites sitting on their leather chairs getting their cocks sucked by countless whores get a mojority of the money of cd/vinyl/mp3 sales. Any of the rest goes to the third party distributors (aka amazon, hmv, virgin etc).
Buying may boost statistical sales, but it does by no means make an artist drive a benz over a ford. And at the average EDM level, the sales of records are so low, general artist can barely (most of the time not at all) survive on their album paychecks. So don't bring up the idea of supply the artist with some cash. Live performances, concerts, djing is where most if not all edm artists make their money. This in fact is a general rule for all genres.
As for downloading, we all do it, we're all guilty to some degree or another. Justifying downloading is bullshit if you ask me. I hate it when people say, "i downloaded it, listened to it three, four times, then stopped, no need to buy" That's like saying I stole a TV, watched the SuperBowl, then gave it back. Stealing is stealing, soo many of you are in denial because you yourselves steal and try to justify it. Frankly, I don't care. I download music, Canada is ok with it, we all live happily.
This is all my take on the scene, and just for pointless arguments sake, I buy a fair share of cds regularly but most of the time, if not all, download and try before I buy. There's nothing worse than having a shitting cd sitting in the midst of my beautiful collection.
Sick and tired of two face naggers who jump to every thread about this topic demeaning all downloaders to hell. stfu and get a life.
(non of them have posted yet, but they're comming)
lol sorry, but that guy is dumb if he honnestly thinks he's not doing anything wrong.
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| Originally posted by Romain lol sorry, but that guy is dumb if he honnestly thinks he's not doing anything wrong. |
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| Originally posted by PersianMafia When did i say im not dong anything wrong. Downloading is stealing. I'm commiting crime. Do I care? No. Why? Because I enjoy ripping off corporate scandals. Wanna know the cost of a physical cd and case? |
but about the guy Benno mentioned just a bit agressive though ;p
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| Originally posted by Romain hey man, wasn't talking about you but about the guy Benno mentionedyour post was good just a bit agressive though ;p |
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| Originally posted by PersianMafia When did i say im not dong anything wrong. Downloading is stealing. I'm commiting crime. Do I care? No. Why? Because I enjoy ripping off corporate scandals. Wanna know the cost of a physical cd and case? |
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| Originally posted by CaTcH21 I dont think he was refering to YOU ! ( OK i guess someone beat me in telling you ) |
Re: Reasons not to pay for music
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| Originally posted by Benno de Goeij - dj's and producers make too much money in the first place |
Re: Re: Reasons not to pay for music
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| Originally posted by Mike_Foyle WHAT? is that really what you think? |
Hang on... is that the real Benno de Goeij?
These days I get increasingly pissed off at people, especially on these boards, who download instead of paying. I spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds every year expanding my music collection, and to see people showing mis-labelled MP3s and saying "my favourite track ever" pisses me right off. You've no respect for the talent behind the music, and worse, you're not even getting your facts right. How can something be your favourite track ever if you can't even be bothered to pay for it?
i used to work in a music store.
this is the reality of the situation.
downloading music for free hardly effects sales.
what you hear in the press are extremities.
this does not make downloading good of course.
i stand in the gray area.
and nothing is free.
those people who install p2p, dramatically open their systems to malware.
ask any downloader.
90% of them have had major computer problems.
thing is they are so dumb they dont know where it came from.
or how it got there or even how to remove it.
ive seen kids computers so amped up with adware it wouldnt even function properly.
and i do charge them little shits to fix it.
owned.
then i get em to burn me a cd har.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Hang on... is that the real Benno de Goeij? These days I get increasingly pissed off at people, especially on these boards, who download instead of paying. I spend hundreds and hundreds of pounds every year expanding my music collection, and to see people showing mis-labelled MP3s and saying "my favourite track ever" pisses me right off. You've no respect for the talent behind the music, and worse, you're not even getting your facts right. How can something be your favourite track ever if you can't even be bothered to pay for it? |
While it's true that illegal downloading increases legitimate sales, it still pisses me off. 90% of what I used to download I would then buy the album/EP/compilation for, and the other 10% I tended to delete. These days I haven't got any way of downloading anything anyway.
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| Originally posted by washout i used to work in a music store. this is the reality of the situation. downloading music for free hardly effects sales. what you hear in the press are extremities. this does not make downloading good of course. i stand in the gray area. and nothing is free. those people who install p2p, dramatically open their systems to malware. ask any downloader. 90% of them have had major computer problems. thing is they are so dumb they dont know where it came from. or how it got there or even how to remove it. ive seen kids computers so amped up with adware it wouldnt even function properly. and i do charge them little shits to fix it. owned. then i get em to burn me a cd har. |
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| Originally posted by CleverName Nice freeverse |
these all turn out to be the same in the end.....
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| Originally posted by WojiePoj these all turn out to be the same in the end..... |
Downloading music is affecting the entire music industry as a whole, pop and edm. EDM is taking a bigger hit right now because we are not talking about millions of sales but rather hundreds and sometimes thousands.
How much does a EDM producer make? In general, 50% of profits. I'll give you a very realistic figure in how much that actually is.
Main Press (822 units): 1434 EUR
Artwork: 29.95 EUR
Mastering: 125 EUR
Total Costs: 1588.95 EUR
Total Revenue: 822 x 3.25 EUR (This is how much Astral gives per vinyl) = 2671.50
Total Profit: 2671.50 EUR - 1588.95 EUR = 1082.50 EUR
Your Share (50%): 541.25 EUR
Note that this does not include any remix fees (if there are any). If you have a remix on the flip that happens to cost 500 euro (which is very common nowadays), you end up making next to nothing on the release.
So if you think there's a lot of money being made here, think again. Every time you download, you are hurting the artist more so than you can imagine.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DC- Downloading music is affecting the entire music industry as a whole, pop and edm. EDM is taking a bigger hit right now because we are not talking about millions of sales but rather hundreds and sometimes thousands. How much does a EDM producer make? In general, 50% of profits. I'll give you a very realistic figure in how much that actually is. Main Press (822 units): 1434 EUR Artwork: 29.95 EUR Mastering: 125 EUR Total Costs: 1588.95 EUR Total Revenue: 822 x 3.25 EUR (This is how much Astral gives per vinyl) = 2671.50 Total Profit: 2671.50 EUR - 1588.95 EUR = 1082.50 EUR Your Share (50%): 541.25 EUR Note that this does not include any remix fees (if there are any). If you have a remix on the flip that happens to cost 500 euro (which is very common nowadays), you end up making next to nothing on the release. So if you think there's a lot of money being made here, think again. Every time you download, you are hurting the artist more so than you can imagine. |
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