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-- Rape of Nanking

Rape of Nanking

Any one read this book?

One of my history teacher told me to read this books after he noticed i how much interest i had with Japannese Culture.Teacher said weird thing is most history books used in US schools briefly mention this event or not at all.So i picked it up and it left a bad taste in my mouth.

Its Pretty much horrific account of a long-ignored massacre.That tragedy was the Rape of Nanking, also known as The Nanking Massacre, the Nanking Invasion - or as the Japanese put it, The Nanking Incident.

The horrors committed by the Japanese soldiers was horrible, and the book's detailed account of the events will leave you speechless.From diary entries to interviews.


The Rape of Nanking

quote:

Rape Historians estimate that up to 80,000 women from as young as seven to the elderly were raped. According to historians, rapes were often performed in public during the day and often in front of spouses or family members. It is believed that rape was systemized in a process where soldiers would search door to door for young girls. It is as well said that many women were taken captive to be gang raped and some were kept to be raped again. It is considered that it was common for a woman to be killed immediately after being raped usually by mutilation. According to the testimonies, some women were forced into military prostitution as comfort women. It is even believed that the Japanese troops often forced families to commit acts of incest; sons were forced to rape their mothers, fathers were forced to rape daughters. Monks who had declared a life of celibacy were forced to rape women for the amusement of the Japanese. While the rape peaked immediately following the fall of the city, it nevertheless continued during the duration of the Japanese occupation. Murder According to historians, immediately following the fall of the city, Japanese troops searched for former soldiers. During their search, they captured thousands of young men most of whom were civilians. Many were taken to the Yangtze River where they were machine gunned so their bodies would flow down to Shanghai. Others were used for live bayonet practice. It is believed that decapitation was a popular method of killing for the Japanese troops. Reports of soldiers being over-exhausted from decapitating prisoners were common. According to other reports, some Chinese were burned, nailed to trees, hung by their tongues, or had their breasts cut off. Witnesses recall Japanese soldiers throwing babies into the air and catching them with their bayonets.

Sick shit!!!But I think the most horrifying thing is that some Japanese swear this never happended.

For too long, I have focused on the "victimization" of Japan during WWII as a result of the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.Now i just laugh.

Discuss

Yup, one can't forget that although Japanese society had the guise of a wester civilized nation it was not such. It had only recently westernized and held strong barbaric and savage traditions.

There seems to be a lot of this praise "the savages" culture, where indengionus uneducated people are some how seen as always peaceful, living in harmony with nature, wise in the way and in balance with their surronding. Neglecting often case their real savage, canabilisitic, uneducated, and ecological disresespecting natures.

I dunno why there is this sense of romanticizing the savages, but it is done repeatedly and continually today (especially in higher academic circiles) that to think otherwise has become akin to racism in the eyes of those very people.



... Same can apply to native americans, africans, Inca/Maya/Aztec, pacific islanders, pigmys, etc...

Yes, that is why it is one of the major discontention between Japan and China these days!

The brutality was also witnessed throughout much of Asia during Japan's occupation, i.e. when they took over S.Korea and Singapore.

Tweek, I haven't heard about this either. It was never mentioned in school...

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Yup, one can't forget that although Japanese society had the guise of a wester civilized nation it was not such. It had only recently westernized and held strong barbaric and savage traditions. There seems to be a lot of this praise "the savages" culture, where indengionus uneducated people are some how seen as always peaceful, living in harmony with nature, wise in the way and in balance with their surronding. Neglecting often case their real savage, canabilisitic, uneducated, and ecological disresespecting natures.

Sorry if this sounds rude but, are you serious? You do know that, many times in history, they were scientifically and culturally "more sophisticated" than the major European nations i.e. it was the first nation to develop pottery and, when the Europeans got there, their degree of urbanisation was a lot higher.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Sorry if this sounds rude but, are you serious? You do know that, many times in history, they were scientifically and culturally "more sophisticated" than the major European nations i.e. it was the first nation to develop pottery and, when the Europeans got there, their degree of urbanisation was a lot higher.

Japanese are part European, especially the Ainu people.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Sorry if this sounds rude but, are you serious? You do know that, many times in history, they were scientifically and culturally "more sophisticated" than the major European nations i.e. it was the first nation to develop pottery and, when the Europeans got there, their degree of urbanisation was a lot higher.

Yes. I'm serious.

I'm not saying European nations were always cultured either. They defintely had their 'savage' ages. However the pursuit for education, science, philosophy, and technology allowed Europe to over come this and westernize.

There is simply an unrealistic observation of the facts of history when one tries to look at natives and nations we'd like to see as victims these days...

quote:

Originally posted by Akridrot Tweek, I haven't heard about this either. It was never mentioned in school...

Yeah most people talked to on this subject have never heard about this incident.Its strange on how the US school system doesnt teach this.

I reamber reading this book at school on my own spare time.And people would look at the cover and look at me strange.Reason being the cover.



It had the word "RAPE" in big letter.Of course girls would look at me weird.So everytime i would have to stop and explain what i was reading.None of them had ever heard of the "the Nanking Invasion".

One thing i found strange about the book is that there were actually a few Nazi's in Nankings safe zone.Trying to help Chinnese civilians out.All this happening while the whole holocoast was going on in Europe.


Sad thing is shit like this is still taking place today.If i am correct in "South Africa".

Don't get me wrong what happened in Nanking was bad, but look at what the Nazis did in the USSR. That was worst if you ask me.

Oh and if schools don't cover this, it is probably due to bad teachers, my teachers mentioned it and they weren't that good(those mofo's will be paid over 100,000 after 15yrs!)

quote:

Originally posted by TweeK Yeah most people talked to on this subject have never heard about this incident. Its strange on how the US school system doesnt teach this.

I read the book when it first came out (1997?); it has since become an important piece in public awareness of the atrocities committed during WWII, and not only in Nazi occupied Europe. Checking Amazon, I see 629 people have posted remarks on it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books

You should also know that a whole slew of Nanking-denying books have been spawned as a direct result of Chang's work.

quote:

Originally posted by TweeK It had the word "RAPE" in big letter.

This contextual usage of "rape" spawned a whole series of related and unrelated books, all using the term to describe the unfortunate exeriences of everything from people to objets d'art.

Chang's usage was literal and not inappropriate; these others are sometimes trashy and artsy-fartsy.

quote:

Originally posted by xxxtasy Yes, that is why it is one of the major discontention between Japan and China these days! The brutality was also witnessed throughout much of Asia during Japan's occupation, i.e. when they took over S.Korea and Singapore.

Also, the clandestine human experiments conducted on captured Allied POWs and "political undesirables" by the Japanese Unit 731:

_Factories of Death: Japanese Biological Warfare, 1932-45 and the American Cover-Up_
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...9110761-2981522

_Unit 731 Testimony_ (probably the best treatment, but OOP):
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...=glance&s=books


A brand new (overview) work has also been released on the history of Japanese biological experiments during WWII with specific attention to Unit 731, but the exact name escapes me at the moment. I don't recall thinking that it added much new material, and was sort of sensationalist like the first one mentioned above.

Cheers,
-N

shame that she killed herself last year.

Now that's something we agree on, Shadowolf - considering the fact that we all descend from Africans anyway, they're are part European indeed, as we all are part Asian (and African) as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Yes. I'm serious. I'm not saying European nations were always cultured either. They defintely had their 'savage' ages. However the pursuit for education, science, philosophy, and technology allowed Europe to over come this and westernize. There is simply an unrealistic observation of the facts of history when one tries to look at natives and nations we'd like to see as victims these days...

Claiming that the Japanese war atrocities cannot be compared to European atrocities such as the holocaust in terms of cruelty sounds a bit naive, if that's what you're saying. Besides, if you're talking about culture and science, Japan has had a quite impressive educational system since before the industrial revolution (a system that European nations could only dream of, back in that time), and they even had a rather sophisticated philosophical system, which reflected its society, although different than its Euro-American counterpart.

quote:

Originally posted by metalgearsolid Oh and if schools don't cover this, it is probably due to bad teachers, my teachers mentioned it and they weren't that good(those mofo's will be paid over 100,000 after 15yrs!)

Asian history is not covered in Brazil, that being the reason why I didn't study it at school, for example. Heck, we didn't even study about the mongol empire.

I read this book last year in my spare time, thought it was an excellent read.

For those who compared Nanking to Nazi atrocities in USSR, the comparison is a little moot. Nazis racked up a much larger body count, such as the killing of 100,000+ people in 3 days at Babiy Yar, but they were nowhere near as brutal and sadistic as the Japanese Imperial Army at Nanking.

As for Iris Chang committing suicide, that was a tragedy in itself. From what I remember reading last year, she was doing research in the Philippines for her next book about WW II and the oral testimony from survivors was so harrowing and emotionally exhausting that she plunged into a deep depression upon her return to the states and committed suicide. She left a young child and a husband behind.

Details of the tragic death of Iris Chang (Zhāng Ch�nr�) here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iris_Chang

"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...gaze long into an abyss and the abyss also gazes into you."
-Friedrich Nietzsche, _Beyond Good And Evil_, Aphorism 146

I read that book. Extremely intense & graphic when depicting the inhumanity committed by Japanese solders to the Chinese. What they did to babies & women was appalling.

In some ways known as the Chinese Holocaust.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira Now that's something we agree on, Shadowolf - considering the fact that we all descend from Africans anyway, they're are part European indeed, as we all are part Asian (and African) as well. Claiming that the Japanese war atrocities cannot be compared to European atrocities such as the holocaust in terms of cruelty sounds a bit naive, if that's what you're saying. Besides, if you're talking about culture and science, Japan has had a quite impressive educational system since before the industrial revolution (a system that European nations could only dream of, back in that time), and they even had a rather sophisticated philosophical system, which reflected its society, although different than its Euro-American counterpart.

Yes, it is true that when compared at the time around the middle ages European cultures were generally inferior to those of the far east, and even to those of the muslim world. The thing that I think Yoepus is trying to say, however, is that people compare the current western culture with the midieval culture of the far eastern countries and hold a romantic view towards that era. Granted that the current culture does have flaws of its own, but overall it does have more advantages than flaws.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 even to those of the muslim world

even to those of the muslim world? You obviously don't much about the Muslim Empire (i.e. the time of the Caliphate, utto the 13th Imam) do you? The foundation of modern science and mathematics was laid down by the Muslims. Hmm, what a backward civilzation.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z even to those of the muslim world? You obviously don't much about the Muslim Empire (i.e. the time of the Caliphate, utto the 13th Imam) do you? The foundation of modern science and mathematics was laid down by the Muslims. Hmm, what a backward civilzation.

The word "even" was there because of the current state of matters and not because of the state of matters that existed 800 years ago. I am aware that at the time muslim world was light years away from the christian regions, especially ones that once belonged to the western Roman empire. Although, not meaning to reduce their achievements, they did take a part of their mathematical and scientific ideas from India.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Although, not meaning to reduce their achievements, they did take a part of their mathematical and scientific ideas from India.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this.

To what exactly are you referring?

Cheers,
-N

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Yes, it is true that when compared at the time around the middle ages European cultures were generally inferior to those of the far east, and even to those of the muslim world. The thing that I think Yoepus is trying to say, however, is that people compare the current western culture with the midieval culture of the far eastern countries and hold a romantic view towards that era. Granted that the current culture does have flaws of its own, but overall it does have more advantages than flaws.

Oh, I guess I stressed the wrong part of my post, and I didn't really mean to say any of the cultures were in a later stage. My debate was over the following point:

quote:

Originally posted by Yoepus Yup, one can't forget that although Japanese society had the guise of a western civilized nation it was not such. It had only recently westernized and held strong barbaric and savage traditions.

• In this post, it seems like Japan was not civilised before Euro-American contact (as if the link between "western" and "civilised" were mandatory), which is the reason why I brought the whole educational system thing up: Japan already had a very sophisticated society, a very competent educational system and an impressive urbanisation level, so it's fair to say they were civilised as well.
  
• Before and after the contact with Europeans and Americans, the levels of savagery in Japanese society weren't much different from any "Western" counterparts - probably the biggest contrast was the late ending of the Japanese feudal era.
  

• I do understand what he's trying to say, but Japan can't be compared to whatever "savage" cultures he's referring to for it was very similar, in this sense, to Europe.
  
• I also mentioned the educational system because "the pursuit for education, science, philosophy, and technology allowed Europe to over come this", which also happened in other parts of the world.
  

I agree that savage and barbaric are perhaps not the right words, because japanese culture of the time was just as savage and barbaric in its customs as that of the greeks, the Roman empire, and midieval Europe in regards to slavery, murders, opression, feudalism, women rights and so on. Again, it's a measure of an old society by today's standards. The japanese, however, did keep some remnants of those traditions a bit longer than the western countries, but the difference was not that great. Especially when we consider that slavery was abolished in the US only 150 years ago and that women were allowed to vote less than 100 years ago even in most advanced societies.

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