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Thoughts on this......(long)
(Warning- long)
Have just recieved this from the PPL (a licensing authority in the uk)
I know my thoughts on it, but would be interested to hear your views as this is very likely to happen in the not too distant future...
prepare to be shafted by paying for something which- according to a friend who practices and has a degree in music copyright- is not actualyl illegal in the first place.
Obviously wont affect the bedroom/hobby dj- but anyone who plays out ir is intending to play out and use cds will need to know this
Thoughts please
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PPL CONSULTATION PAPER
THE MAKING OF DIGITAL COPIES OF SOUND RECORDINGS
FOR USE AS SPECIALLY FEATURED ENTERTAINMENT
1. INTRODUCTION
To facilitate the lawful making of digital copies of sound recordings by DJs for public performance as specially featured entertainment (i.e. not as background music), PPL has developed a draft licensing arrangement, the key terms and conditions of which are summarised below. The purpose of this Consultation Paper is to obtain the views of interested parties on this arrangement before it is implemented and therefore to ensure that PPL is meeting the needs of the relevant industries.
2. BACKGROUND
The provision of sound recordings for public performance as specially featured entertainment has evolved alongside developments in technology, moving from vinyl to CD and more recently to the use of digital copies of sound recordings (for example, stored on laptop computers or other portable devices).
However, making a digital copy of a sound recording � whether by copying the original vinyl or CD releases, by downloading a track from an illegal internet site or file sharer, or otherwise � is a violation of UK copyright law. In consequence, a significant proportion of those involved in the provision of specially featured entertainment by creating and using such digital copies are regularly committing breaches of UK copyright law.
The position is similar across Europe. In a recent legal case in Italy, a DJ was fined 1.4 million Euros for the unlawful creation and use of digital copies of sound recordings.
3. THE ROLE OF PPL
PPL, the UK record industry collecting society, licenses the public performance and broadcast of millions of sound recordings on behalf of its members. For many years PPL has played a central role in providing collective licensing solutions for the legitimate use of sound recordings as specially featured entertainment. As well as providing venues with licences for the public performance of sound recordings, PPL licenses the production of compilation discs for supply to DJs on a subscription basis.
PPL is now seeking to offer a solution to the problem posed by the unlawful creation of digital copies of sound recordings by DJs for public performance as specially featured entertainment, by providing a practical, legitimate alternative. As noted above, once this legitimate alternative is in place, PPL will then take action against those who continue to make unlawful copies.
Hence PPL is intending to launch a licensing arrangement that will enable DJs to make legitimate digital copies of PPL members� sound recordings for public performance as specially featured entertainment. The draft licensing arrangement outlined below represents our initial ideas. The purpose of this Consultation Paper is to seek the views and opinions of key operators involved in the provision of specially featured entertainment on the issue of the making and playing of illegal digital copies of sound recordings, and on PPL�s suggested solution.
4. THE DRAFT LICENSING ARRANGEMENT
Under the draft licensing arrangement, bona-fide DJs will register with PPL and be licensed to make and keep digital copies of sound recordings from the PPL repertoire for public performance as specially featured entertainment. Please note that the draft arrangement relates to the exercise of the sound recording copyright only.
PPL�s current intention is that the new arrangement would be non-precedential and would initially operate for a year. Towards the end of that initial year of operation, PPL will consider how the arrangement is working and would be willing to consider requests for a further review of this issue.
Key terms and conditions of the draft arrangement will include the following:
The making of digital copies
(1) The DJ will only be licensed to make digital copies of legitimately-sourced sound recordings owned by the DJ � e.g. vinyl, CDs, digital downloads from legitimate websites. Copies cannot be made from illegitimate sources such as bootleg CDs or unauthorised download sites, or from CDs or digital files borrowed from e.g. another DJ. The DJ will not be permitted to make digital copies of unauthorised �mixes� of sound recordings.
(2) The DJ will be authorised to create and keep (for the duration of their licence) a single database of the digital copies of sound recordings they create under the licensing arrangement.
(3) The DJ will not be able to make or keep multiple digital copies of any sound recording, whether in the database or separately.
(4) The maximum number of digital copies that can be kept on the database at any one time will be 10,000 tracks. Please note that it will not be permissible to evade this limit by deleting excess tracks and saving them on separate disks.
Protection
(5) The making and keeping of copies will not initially be subject to DRM protection but PPL will reserve the right to impose such a condition in the future.
A standard condition of other digital copying licenses issued by PPL is that the resultant digital copies are protected by Digital Rights Management (�DRM�) (i.e. software technologies such as encryption) to restrict the extent of permitted copying and use.
PPL understands that the software and hardware currently used by DJs to publicly perform digital copies of sound recordings are incompatible with DRM protected files. Accordingly, to ensure that the draft licensing arrangement is workable, PPL is initially prepared to waive any DRM requirement.
PPL wishes to emphasise to DJs, and to the specially featured entertainment industry as a whole, that it is only prepared to waive the DRM requirement in light of the current incompatibility issue. At a point in the future (depending upon the development of software/hardware technology and the use of digital copies of sound recordings by DJs) DRM will become a mandatory requirement of any PPL licensing arrangement concerning the making and keeping of digital copies of sound recordings by DJs.
Mixing
(6) Copies must be unaltered from the music contained on the original sound recordings. Please note that this prohibition will not prevent a DJ from mixing sound recordings whilst playing live at a gig, but will prevent them from making any recordings of such mixes).
Use of the digital copies
(7) Copies will be for the sole use of the registered DJ for the purpose of public performance by the DJ as specially featured entertainment. They can only be performed in venues licensed for public performance by PPL under its Specially Featured Entertainment Tariff. Other uses of the digital files, such as the provision of background music, jukebox type services, or aerobics classes or the supply of digital copies of sound recordings to other DJs will not be licensed.
Payment terms
(8) Each registered DJ must pay a licence fee of �200 annually and in advance. The fee will be subject to adjustment each year to take account of inflation.
(9) As with other PPL licences, once the licensing arrangement is up and running there will be a surcharge of 50% (i.e. �100) for DJs who fail to obtain a licence from PPL before they commence making digital copies of PPL�s sound recordings.
Termination or expiry of the licence
(10) Should the licence not be renewed by the DJ, or terminated by PPL e.g. for breach of its terms and conditions, all copies of sound recordings made and retained under the licence will have to be deleted.
Policing the use of digital copies
(11) DJs will be required to report where they play (so that PPL can confirm the venues hold public performance licences under PPL�s Specially Featured Entertainment Tariff).
(12) PPL will be entitled to inspect the DJ�s computer (or other storage device) to make sure that the DJ is complying with the terms of the licence.
(13) DJs will have to provide a list of tracks copied onto their computer (or other storage device). This information will be required to enable PPL to distribute the licence fee income generated under the draft licensing arrangement.
In addition to the policing requirements imposed on the DJ by the draft licensing arrangement, PPL also intends to require that venues assist PPL in this regard:
� PPL�s public performance licences for Specially Featured Entertainment will require that digital copies of sound recordings only be performed by DJs registered with and licensed by PPL under the draft licensing arrangement.
� Venues will also need to record and report to PPL the registration details of their DJs.
5. CONSULTATION
PPL is seeking the views of a cross-section of those involved in the making and use of digital copies of sound recordings by DJs on the draft licensing arrangement summarised in this Consultation Paper.
PPL would welcome any and all comments, but in particular would be interested in your views on the following:
5.1 Do you support the underlying approach of licensing DJs to make digital copies of sound recordings for public performance as specially featured entertainment? If not do you have any alternative suggestions?
5.2 What are your views on the suggested terms and conditions set out above?
5.3 What are your views on the suggested licence fee?
5.4 By what means should PPL publicise the availability of the draft licensing arrangement to DJs?
Please let us have your comments by email to ******@****.com no later than 30 June 2005.
Please note that PPL may disclose your views to third parties. However, please let us know if you would like your views to be made known on an anonymous basis only.
man i think by just reading a little bit, this issue has gone way over the top in some respects!
okay personally i dont use CDs.... but i still think its bullshit
for the awesome guys that do actually pay for they're digital downloads around here, its bullox because its as though they are now trying to get you to pay to play for the music you already paid for 
and really dont think its right, if your able to have proff of recipe then fuck it, youv paid for it and you should be allowed to have as many copies and what not you fucking want
artist already make more then the public... but really taking all these measure to 'lock down' illegle music downloading is just getting out of hand
but it really seems that they want to squeeze the public for every penny they have, and its just not right
oh- I forgot to add- they plan on charging djs in ADDITION to the venues also continuing to pay for a ppl license.... this will not replace the existing licence
This is getting out of hand.
Jesus Christ. I keep feeling this is a pisstake, but then I know it's not. That's just ridiculous that they are trying to milk more money out of the music scene while it is already dying. First the consumer, now the DJs (and this draft is clearly directed at DJs) But to pay for the right to make a copy of something I already own...that's just outrageous. I don't even see how they can justify this; it's not like i'm making copies and passing it around. THAT I can understand...
So for Sasha, Zabiela, Lisle, J00F, Hawtin, and whoever else plays the majority of their sets off CDs or digital copies...they all have to pay a license now?
So for record labels and producers...it is now illegal to pass out promos that are digital copies of their OWN damn music? until it is registered and licensed?
and it also states NO recording of mixes now? how about radio broadcasts? what difference is there if I play vinyl and digital copies...or is recording both kind of mixes now going to be illegal?
Effectively, it also seems to state no copies of the music can be made and altered...hence no personal edits? samples? loops? unless you make it with an old analog tape machine and razor and tape?
The only upside I can come up with is this will force DJs back into the vinyl era...but there is a major stifling issue here in which technology is being forced into oblivion for the greed of some money-grubby folks.
*shakes head in dismay.
Points that I'm clearly not in favor of (disregarding the obvious disfavor of the entire draft):
(6) Copies must be unaltered from the music contained on the original sound recordings. Please note that this prohibition will not prevent a DJ from mixing sound recordings whilst playing live at a gig, but will prevent them from making any recordings of such mixes).
(12) PPL will be entitled to inspect the DJ's computer (or other storage device) to make sure that the DJ is complying with the terms of the licence.
holy crap. thats fvcked. so really very fucked. am i naive when i say that its so fucked it could never last??
This is a draft right? there's no way this is gonna get passed in it's current state.
Ughhh, just let us play what we want as long as we bought the track of were given it as a promo then who cares!
| quote: |
| Originally posted by b i n k u n The only upside I can come up with is this will force DJs back into the vinyl era...but there is a major stifling issue here in which technology is being forced into oblivion for the greed of some money-grubby folks. [/B] |
Sadly its not a joke.....although it is- if you see what I mean.
It was mailed to me from the PPL- it came direct (note the comment date- which is about 2 months ago 
- this arrived yesterday)
Paying to play something you have already payed for?
I will go back to 100% vinyl if thats what it takes, and I have no issue wih that- but this is utter bollocks.
I also have no issue with trying to stop piracy at all- but there is a very very major difference between playing out illegally obtained copies, and backups of your own stuff/payed for downloads.
And they have kept this very very quiet for a good reason...... it will happen-possibly when the majority of people find out, it will be too late.
That's really really gay. Plus they limit you on how many cds you can have WTF?
Big gay.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Freak Sadly its not a joke.....although it is- if you see what I mean. It was mailed to me from the PPL- it came direct (note the comment date- which is about 2 months ago - this arrived yesterday)Paying to play something you have already payed for? I will go back to 100% vinyl if thats what it takes, and I have no issue wih that- but this is utter bollocks. I also have no issue with trying to stop piracy at all- but there is a very very major difference between playing out illegally obtained copies, and backups of your own stuff/payed for downloads. And they have kept this very very quiet for a good reason...... it will happen-possibly when the majority of people find out, it will be too late. |
So you would be ok playing a vinyl bootleg but punnished if it was a cd version wtf 
While it's always annoying to have to deal with more restrictions rules and regulations I personally find it good that something is finally getting down to try and make the whole thing legit.
Now the other way I look at it is that it's obviously not written by actual users. It appears this was specifically intended for DJs yet it fails to meet their specific needs on multiple points.
No altering of tracks ( personal edits remixes? )
I was willing to think this agreement was borderline acceptable till I saw this:
Limited to 10 000 tracks for the whole database!
Come on!?
Do they even know that the basic ipods ( 20 gb ) hold 5000 song and everyone one has a device like that for their own personal use YET a dj who's job it is to essentially play music cannot play MORE then 10 000 tracks?
Stupid stupid stupid.
Btw will this be something considered obligatory for djs to have over in the Uk?
I don't see why they have to start something else when the venues already pay licensing fees ( that do admitidly never make it into the pockets of the right artists it seems )
I'm not sure how bad off it is here in America, when it comes to licencing, but I'm sure it's either similar or worse.
Makes me want to throw REAL under-ground parties, and play ALL my rare mp3 tracks, that I downloaded illegally. Some tracks you just can't get on wax/cd anymore.
But yea. This is quite the load of BS.
While I agree some of it is obvious like, "if you're playing out, for god's sake play LEGAL digital media."
That I understand. But the 10,000 track limit is pretty retarded. And no personal mixes or edits? EVEN MORE retarded...
In fact. That's the worse. A lot of DJs get really well known because they are decent producers and can drop a popular track that THEY remixed and the crowd can go nanners!
Anyway. It's bull. How unfortunate.
(1) The DJ will only be licensed to make digital copies of legitimately-sourced sound recordings owned by the DJ � e.g. vinyl, CDs, digital downloads from legitimate websites. Copies cannot be made from illegitimate sources such as bootleg CDs or unauthorised download sites, or from CDs or digital files borrowed from e.g. another DJ. The DJ will not be permitted to make digital copies of unauthorised �mixes� of sound recordings.
I think most of us did not read this article before bashing it. We can make digital copies of legitimate source recordings so if i buy from beatpor...i can make a copy of the song.......wait nvm read number three
(3) The DJ will not be able to make or keep multiple digital copies of any sound recording, whether in the database or separately.
wtf does that conflict or is it just me?
also you can only have a single database of the songs....if your hardrive blows then there goes everything. (Great way to sabotage otehr dj's though)
Finally, how the heck are any artists allowed to remix a track if you can't even edit the recording?
Why cant the ppl idiots just ban and get rid of all filesharing programs instead of doing this stupid stuff. The whole point of dj's is to make people dance and to promote music so the public can buy and listen to it. Also will pre-mixed cd's be allowed to be sold
Dear god this is bullshit, I haven't been able to read it all yet as I gotta go, but I've skimmed threw it, and this all sounds like utter bullshit, I'm 100% for making things legit and cutting down illegal mp3s, but THIS IS NOT THE WAY, this is just more assholes wanting more money, don't these people know that alot of music these days are heard and made popular by DJs playing alot of tunes, this is gonna have a huge impact on that, there is alot of music from some genres of EDM that you can only really get on CD, and I bet alot of those DJs will give up or change if they have to follow rules that are like this.
As for no edits or recording of mixes, holy shit this is part of the backbone to making the music scene bigger, prolly 90% of the music I own is from hearing it in various peoples mixes, if I didn't my vinyl collection wouldn't be what it is, as for remixes/edits, ALOT of mixes that come out now adays are from producers remixing and either sending the track to the artist or they get the mix round to other DJs to be heard, then they get signed, if this becomes illegal then they can't do that and it would end up coming down to the artist or record label picking someone to make a remix (they do this anyway), and so there wouldn't be as many remixes as there could be being released.
Anyway I could go on forever about this, this scene is going down the shitter because of asshole organizations like these, fuckin money hungry organizations, one day we will have to pay to breath.
Freak, I hope this is just some big joke or something, but I can't see you doing something like this to the booth so I'm afraid it is real, I'll give this a full read tomorrow after work, do you mind if I send this to some other forums for feedback?, I was thinking about sending it to Skratchworx as many companies check there boards and so the feedback from DJs like us could get to the right people and maybe something better can happen.
is there any protest being done about this? any way to voice our concerns to the right people?
or is this one of those things that will just happen without concern for the public opinion...
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DannyO Freak, I hope this is just some big joke or something, but I can't see you doing something like this to the booth so I'm afraid it is real, I'll give this a full read tomorrow after work, do you mind if I send this to some other forums for feedback?, I was thinking about sending it to Skratchworx as many companies check there boards and so the feedback from DJs like us could get to the right people and maybe something better can happen. |
I can hardly believe that.. i mean those new rules they are trying to force on the EDM scene is just stupid...these ignorant poeple making ignorant rules. I understand that the PPL wants to stop illegal downloading of music files...but i mean to impose some of those rules its just taking it to far...i am never going to pay twice to have a vinyl on CD that i made myself, one of the dumbest things ive heard in a while...
| quote: |
The DJ will not be permitted to make digital copies of unauthorised �mixes� of sound recordings. |
| quote: |
Policing the use of digital copies (11) DJs will be required to report where they play (so that PPL can confirm the venues hold public performance licences under PPL�s Specially Featured Entertainment Tariff). (12) PPL will be entitled to inspect the DJ�s computer (or other storage device) to make sure that the DJ is complying with the terms of the licence. (13) DJs will have to provide a list of tracks copied onto their computer (or other storage device). This information will be required to enable PPL to distribute the licence fee income generated under the draft licensing arrangement. |
let the new era of underground djing begin.....
Ummm.. Honestly I am speechless.. 
This WILL kill the scene IMO.. or atleast reduce it to something that no one will want to be apart of anymore..
| quote: |
| Originally posted by spdandpwr let the era of underground djing begin..... |
Not surprised. Haven't received this little gem in the post but as mentioned earlier, I'm sure that they have already actioned it.
Although I assume the fee is Tax deductable for regular DJs the implications to those guys who are up and comming who play out every now and again are totally minging.
What bugs me is that they have put a limit (although it's quite high) on how much music you can have. For f*ck sake. It's been paid for by us, why can't we keep it?
This is quite short sighted, but they are under a lot of pressure from the music industry so this may not be directly from them.
I think there may be a legal issue there too. If as they say you are not allowed to make copies even if it's from records you own (for public performance). The file you are dowloading should be classified as your original as you have actually paid for it. Could get some interesting legal loopholes comming out of this.
It is getting out of hand and this is a poor attempt at a solution, but you may well see a vinyl backlash.
Would be interesting to see what would happen if the companies who make all this digital media (CDJs, Traktor, Ableton etc.) started to loose income because of this law.
Cheers
Nem
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Nemesis44 ould be interesting to see what would happen if the companies who make all this digital media (CDJs, Traktor, Ableton etc.) started to loose income because of this law. |
how can the music industry even promote this when the music industry wants dj's to promote their music. Why do you think there are things like record pools and promos.
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