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Australian PM : too bad, I ain't helpin you

quote:

PM warns Australians over drugs Australians who take drugs into Asian countries are "stupid" and should not expect to be bailed out by Canberra, Prime Minister John Howard has said. Mr Howard's comments come just days after another two Australians were held in Indonesia over trafficking charges. Twelve young Australians are now facing execution or long jail terms in Indonesia for various drug offences. Among them are eight men and a woman - known as the Bali nine - held in April for reportedly trafficking heroin. It's beyond belief that any Australian could be so stupid as to carry drugs into any country in Asia Australian PM John Howard Indonesia has increasingly become a transit route for drug traffickers, and courts across the country have toughened up on offenders in recent years, sentencing several foreigners to death. No mercy "It's beyond belief that any Australian could be so stupid as to carry drugs into any country in Asia," Mr Howard told Australia's Nine Network television. "We have told Australians - young Australians, again and again, don't take drugs out of this country, don't take them into Asian countries because you can't expect any mercy. "We'll keep pushing that message, but people have to understand that if they defy that, and they get caught with drugs, they can't expect the government to bail them out," Mr Howard said. The prime minister issued the warning after two young Australians were detained in Indonesia over weekend. Michelle Leslie, 24, was arrested in Bali after police said they found ecstasy pills in her bag, while Graham Clifford was caught in Sumatra for allegedly possessing about 2,000 prescription drugs. In May, former beauty therapist Schapelle Corby, 20, was jailed for 20 years for smuggling 4.1 kg (9 lb) of marijuana into Bali. Corby's case has attracted widespread sympathy in Australia, and some people have even said they will not visit Bali in protest at her jailing.

source: BBC News

Does this bother anyone else?

bother anyone else how? that canberra is hanging them out to dry? that ppl are getting the death sentence for drug offences?

i feel for the poor fvcks that get caught, but they should know better. feel extra sorry for michelle (and no, not coz she's gorgeous) coz she wasnt trafficking, she got caught in a raid. apparently she had 2 pills in a handbag

i think the Oz govt should be doing all it can to prevent death sentences. but theres not a lot they can do really.

quote:

"It's beyond belief that any Australian could be so stupid as to carry drugs into any country in Asia," Mr Howard told Australia's Nine Network television. "We have told Australians - young Australians, again and again, don't take drugs out of this country, don't take them into Asian countries because you can't expect any mercy." "We'll keep pushing that message, but people have to understand that if they defy that, and they get caught with drugs, they can't expect the government to bail them out," Mr Howard said.

Doesn't really bother me - if anything, I'd say he's got the correct stance. If they're told not to do something, and fail to comply, they've got to face up to the consequences.

with the death penalty?

Yeah, I agree that the sentences are definitely too harsh, but ffs, if you know that you can get a severe punishment for such a thing, well either just don't fuckin do it, or go to a different country.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Yeah, I agree that the sentences are definitely too harsh, but ffs, if you know that you can get a severe punishment for such a thing, well either just don't fuckin do it, or go to a different country.

Well, since you put it that way, I agree with you, one should take responsibility for his/her actions and the predictable consequences of it. But I don't think they deserve to die for it, hence, the PM should do something.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Yeah, I agree that the sentences are definitely too harsh, but ffs, if you know that you can get a severe punishment for such a thing, well either just don't fuckin do it, or go to a different country.

by that rationale, anyone that risks their life using/abusing substances deserves to die people that OD know what the risks are in their abuse. i dont think that coz someone took the quick and easy path, as vader did, that they should be put to death.

if i were an oz drug courier id be wondering why so many busts have been occuring lately these seizures just punish those that profit least from the traffic. it wont stop some standard of supply coming in.

and i still think chapelle corby is innocent too. she's in prison for having some pot. hehe, a fair bit of pot mind you

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z with the death penalty?

With whatever the country's constitution claims to be the right punishment. I'd be against death penalty in my own country, but I agree with what Drug_Tito said. If it's not my country, I shouldn't expect rules to be seen my way.

Not like I'm against drugs or anything, but if you smuggle drugs into a country where you know what the penalties are, then yes, you are well past "stupid"!

Still, I dont believe in the death penalty so if your country does not as well, then there should be diplomatic pressure used to ensure your nationals do not face that punishment

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Still, I dont believe in the death penalty so if your country does not as well, then there should be diplomatic pressure used to ensure your nationals do not face that punishment

i agree.

^^ I guess that's the message I was really trying to get across.

If it prevents drugs from getting in, then I can't say I'm against it.

quote:

Originally posted by Akridrot If it prevents drugs from getting in, then I can't say I'm against it.

Well, having the death penalty is probablty the most effective penalty to prevent/minimize something. It doesn't necessarily mean that it's appropriate.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Not like I'm against drugs or anything, but if you smuggle drugs into a country where you know what the penalties are, then yes, you are well past "stupid"! Still, I dont believe in the death penalty so if your country does not as well, then there should be diplomatic pressure used to ensure your nationals do not face that punishment

I agree except for the last part. If you're against the death penalty (as me), there should not be diplomatic pressure to get these stupid people of the hook. There should be diplomatic pressure to abolish the death penalty entirely.
It really sickens me when Westerners expect people from the west to be exempt from local laws in third world countries, and also when a public outcry, such as the one for Corby, gains momentum, while noone gives a f*ck about all the local people who get executed every year.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I agree except for the last part. If you're against the death penalty (as me), there should not be diplomatic pressure to get these stupid people of the hook. There should be diplomatic pressure to abolish the death penalty entirely.

the penalty ill always be around. there'll never be a world consensus to abolish it. everyone's at it

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic It really sickens me when Westerners expect people from the west to be exempt from local laws in third world countries, and also when a public outcry, such as the one for Corby, gains momentum, while noone gives a f*ck about all the local people who get executed every year.

yeah, but we're lazy. you dont have enough time to think about everyone that is suffering on this planet. at its most basic, its like arguing about the football gossip from the weekend

i do care for *anyone* stuck in those circumstances for those particular crimes. but, in reality, you get people in western nations to start telling various government's around the world how to treat their own citizens i dont think anyone is listening to anything certain members of the west have to say anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by trancaholic I agree except for the last part. If you're against the death penalty (as me), there should not be diplomatic pressure to get these stupid people of the hook. There should be diplomatic pressure to abolish the death penalty entirely. It really sickens me when Westerners expect people from the west to be exempt from local laws in third world countries, and also when a public outcry, such as the one for Corby, gains momentum, while noone gives a f*ck about all the local people who get executed every year.

You have a very good point there. +1. Didn't really think about it like that. But where do you draw the line between pressuring other nations, and, imposing on them by telling themselves how to Govern themselves?

If I were Australian PM I would suspend diplomatic relations with these countries.

After all, you don't support (or recognize) countries that are terrorist, outlaw, illegal, etc., right? For example, the US has no relations with North Korea or Cuba. Russia does not recognize Chechnya. The Palestinian Authority is not universally recognized as a country.

In a similar vein, Australia should protest by not recognizing those regimes which have no regard for human life and liberties, like those in Asia. It should be an official government stance.

Suspend diplomatic relations because the country is imposing its law against someone who committed a crime in their country? I really don't see the problem as long as foreigners are getting the same punishment as locals would. I can maybe understand if they didn't know but there were warnings.

Personally I think the death penalty is a bit harsh for small time drug offenses, I can see it being used on more higher level cartel people who have directly or indirectly caused the death of others. However my opinion means nothing, this is their law.

Suspend diplomatic relations because a country that punishes by death those who possess small amounts of pot violates international human values/conventions.

quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd Suspend diplomatic relations because a country that punishes by death those who possess small amounts of pot violates international human values/conventions.

One of our human rights is that we can carry pot?



hmm.....never knew that.



They desvere all they get. AT leat if they do kill them, they wont be allowed bring more stupid kids into the world.

If you dont like the punishment a country dishes out for commiting a crime, dont commit that crime.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 One of our human rights is that we can carry pot? hmm.....never knew that. They desvere all they get. AT leat if they do kill them, they wont be allowed bring more stupid kids into the world. If you dont like the punishment a country dishes out for commiting a crime, dont commit that crime.

Well, now you're really taking it to the other extreme. They do not deserve what they will probably get because the indonesian law is definitely too harsh on such a minor issue. But they certainly are stupid, as their PM said. Australia probably will try to persuade Indonesia to solve the crises in some more reasonable way, but suspending diplomatic relations for two morons is really not something it should do either.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Well, now you're really taking it to the other extreme. They do not deserve what they will probably get because the indonesian law is definitely too harsh on such a minor issue. But they certainly are stupid, as their PM said. Australia probably will try to persuade Indonesia to solve the crises in some more reasonable way, but suspending diplomatic relations for two morons is really not something it should do either.

why shouldnt a country be allowed to push its criminals whatever way it wants?

since michelle had converted, it will be harder for her to escaper than corby.

corby was 20 , who knows death or life imprisonment.
she was wrong to say that statement of being a muslim and becoming a muslim.

she are worse off being a muslim in an islamic country because their laws are much stricter than western laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 why shouldnt a country be allowed to push its criminals whatever way it wants?

Yeah I am with you on that. Criminals are not being treated bad enough to never commit a crime again. Lets shoot a person for stealing a piece of bread next time it happens and if someone forgets to stop at a red light let them get beaten up by the cops because that person could have commited a worser crime

quote:

Originally posted by Michael19 why shouldnt a country be allowed to push its criminals whatever way it wants?

Then I suppose you were ok with the taliban regime?

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