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-- the more religious you are, the less intelligent you are.
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the more religious you are, the less intelligent you are.

i think so. do you?

depends how you define intelligence.


i am failry sure there are some religious people who have very high i.q's.

I am amused by the scientific cult of ostracism directed towards those with faith.

Essentially a low level evolutionary program. Make the environment toxic to a (perceived) vestigial belief and it will shrivel up and die.

Yet Faith is impervious.

In general, yes. Don't think the difference is that big tho, it has more with upbringing to do.

i love it how people like you tell the theist, "you're close-minded",
when you yourself are even more close-minded. we're defending out point of view, whether you agree or not. i find it strange how strongly atheist believe the notion that they are right, whether they are or not, they are very hostile to anyone who doesnt hold that opinion. a minority of atheists are debatable. the other group of them are vile. personal attacks, ego trips, angered replies. if they are so right, why are they so insecure when someone opposes their worldview?

Boy, you must be a real bible thumper to come up with that brilliant statement.

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Originally posted by Shakka Boy, you must be a real bible thumper to come up with that brilliant statement.

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Originally posted by Shakka Boy, you must be a real bible thumper to come up with that brilliant statement.

here we go. lol. i didnt even use the bible. so much for bible thumping.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: i love it how people like you tell the theist, "you're close-minded", when you yourself are even more close-minded. we're defending out point of view, whether you agree or not. i find it strange how strongly atheist believe the notion that they are right, whether they are or not, they are very hostile to anyone who doesnt hold that opinion. a minority of atheists are debatable. the other group of them are vile. personal attacks, ego trips, angered replies. if they are so right, why are they so insecure when someone opposes their worldview?

Piss off!

Re: the more religious you are, the less intelligent you are.

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Originally posted by Spacey Orange i think so. do you?

please do expand...

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Originally posted by Subey I am amused by the scientific cult of ostracism directed towards those with faith. Essentially a low level evolutionary program. Make the environment toxic to a (perceived) vestigial belief and it will shrivel up and die. Yet Faith is impervious.

There are plenty of religious scientists. The ostracism comes into play against the few or unlearned that attempt to substitute faith with science. Because, you know, it doesn�t make much sense for science to be accepting of unscientific principles.



As for religion and intelligence, I�m guessing there�s no correlation with moderation. However, once you get to the extremes I'm sure some things can be inferred. I think that to be a fundy, you kind of have to shut down some reason and logic centers in the brain. To express this mathematically, the limit of x as you approach fundamentalism equals infinite stupidity.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: i love it how people like you tell the theist, "you're close-minded", when you yourself are even more close-minded. we're defending out point of view, whether you agree or not. i find it strange how strongly atheist believe the notion that they are right, whether they are or not, they are very hostile to anyone who doesnt hold that opinion. a minority of atheists are debatable. the other group of them are vile. personal attacks, ego trips, angered replies. if they are so right, why are they so insecure when someone opposes their worldview?

Actually I dont think there is a lot of hard core atheists on this forum. Most of the people on this board tend to agree that we dont know if there is a god, there might be one, there might not be one (probably leaning in one way or another). However, what almost everyone here would agree of is that obvious things like evolotion is true, and when people is stupid enough to start to argue over it, even tho they dont have any arguments, then you can accuse someone for being close minded.

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Originally posted by George Smiley Piss off!

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Originally posted by George Smiley Piss off!

yeaaa.

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Actually I dont think there is a lot of hard core atheists on this forum. Most of the people on this board tend to agree that we dont know if there is a god, there might be one, there might not be one (probably leaning in one way or another). However, what almost everyone here would agree of is that obvious things like evolotion is true, and when people is stupid enough to start to argue over it, even tho they dont have any arguments, then you can accuse someone for being close minded.

ive read explicitly, and several times that the common belief here in this forum, among the participants is one of not doubt over a god, but the total denial of any god.

well, we've gotten into arguements before, ive put out evidence from science itself, of which, im guessing because of the pressuppositions most already have in their minds, they have made up their minds, their not going to hear anything, my evidence is totally looked over.

ive had PM's asking questions, like, "how can this be true?" "i want to know more, give me some resources." "how do you know this?" but of course, im the evil theist here to ruin science. im supposedly close-minded and stupid, blah blah blah.

this isnt a battle between science and creationism. its a battle between evolutionary interpretation and theistic interpretation. we all have the same evidence, but we both have a different preconcieved notion of how we are going to examine the evidence. science is nuetral.

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: yeaaa. ive read explicitly, and several times that the common belief here in this forum, among the participants is one of not doubt over a god, but the total denial of any god. well, we've gotten into arguements before, ive put out evidence from science itself, of which, im guessing because of the pressuppositions most already have in their minds, they have made up their minds, their not going to hear anything, my evidence is totally looked over. ive had PM's asking questions, like, "how can this be true?" "i want to know more, give me some resources." "how do you know this?" but of course, im the evil theist here to ruin science. im supposedly close-minded and stupid, blah blah blah. this isnt a battle between science and creationism. its a battle between evolutionary interpretation and theistic interpretation. we all have the same evidence, but we both have a different preconcieved notion of how we are going to examine the evidence. science is nuetral.

We both have the same evidence, but we interpret it differently?! You mean, you dont accept all evidence as evidence?

For example the order of things in the creation accout totally contradicts with proven science, how could you interpret that differently?!

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Originally posted by St_Andrew We both have the same evidence, but we interpret it differently?! You mean, you dont accept all evidence as evidence? For example the order of things in the creation accout totally contradicts with proven science, how could you interpret that differently?!

yes we do have the same evidence. the fossil record, space, experimentation, nature. creationist scientist are also looking at the same things the evolutionists are looking at, but with a different preconcieved view/assumption/opinion/pressupposition.

out of your second paragraph, all i get from that is your opinion, your preconcieved assumption of how your going to interpret whatever evidence is given to you. this is not objective. you havnt looked at the evidence for creationism, so how do you know beyond a shadow of a doubt what you just said?

hmmm...so the Pope must be a complete idiot then....
How many languages did Pope John Paul speak? Something like 8??

Complete bull-pucky statement...intelligence capacity has no baring on piety.
If anything, I've only ever experienced quite the opposite.

Pope John Paul couldn't even speak one language whenever I saw him on TV!

thomas aquinas, augustinus, spinoza(i think?) were amongst the greatest philosophers of the western world while at the same time religious.

Einstein didn't exclude the possibility of god either..wasn't he agnostic if not even slightly religious?

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r hmmm...so the Pope must be a complete idiot then.... How many languages did Pope John Paul speak? Something like 8?? Complete bull-pucky statement...intelligence capacity has no baring on piety. If anything, I've only ever experienced quite the opposite.

what did mister pope say?

pOpe, p0p3, |>0|>3

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Originally posted by occrider As for religion and intelligence, I�m guessing there�s no correlation with moderation. However, once you get to the extremes I'm sure some things can be inferred. I think that to be a fundy, you kind of have to shut down some reason and logic centers in the brain. To express this mathematically, the limit of x as you approach fundamentalism equals infinite stupidity.

People who study religion and texts however open up their mind more to new things not like the people who hate every subject in school because they thing math won't get them any where in life, meanwhile it's challenging their thinking abilities and broadening their minds.

religion can be a very powerful socialising agent. and just like any other agent can easily transcend or hurdle one\'s intelligence. most of the people in the world believe in one deity or another. as stupid as people are, id hardly say a belief in god equates with a lack of intelligence.

i think its more how ppl use their belief that makes them stupid.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r hmmm...so the Pope must be a complete idiot then.... How many languages did Pope John Paul speak? Something like 8??

Knowledge has absolutely nothing to do with intelligence. Intelligence is your ability to reason, not to hold information.

By the definition of what intelligence is, yes, religious people are automatically less intelligent.

Oh and by the way, the I.Q. system is a joke. The only thing it can do is give you extremely vague estimates. Not only are most questions not nessessarily intelligence-based, but your level of intelligence is in constant variation, and to get a general idea of it using this sort of test, you'd have to take douzens of tests during one average week to get a range of scores that apply to you. In any case, the only true indication of intelligence is opinions, and no such testing system could be implemented because of political correctness (or simply because everyone is brought up to think 'all opinions are equal'). A credible "I.Q." test would have questions like: "Are you religious? ()yes ()no", or "What is your stance on this political situation?".

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Originally posted by ::TranceVanDyk:: ive read explicitly, and several times that the common belief here in this forum, among the participants is one of not doubt over a god, but the total denial of any god.

Actually, I would say that there are more theists here than atheists. You know there is more to theism than the Christian God ...

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well, we've gotten into arguements before, ive put out evidence from science itself, of which, im guessing because of the pressuppositions most already have in their minds, they have made up their minds, their not going to hear anything, my evidence is totally looked over.

Huh? What? What arguments did you raise that were totally ignored. To the best of my knowledge MisterOpus and several others made it a point to rebut every single one of your arguments ... and I believe they're still waiting for a few responses on your part. I can drag up old threads and source them specifically if you would like. So by all means, where do you want to continue with this?

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this isnt a battle between science and creationism. its a battle between evolutionary interpretation and theistic interpretation. we all have the same evidence, but we both have a different preconcieved notion of how we are going to examine the evidence. science is nuetral.

But it is a debate between science and creationism. You don't criticize scientific arguments of evolution in favor of scientific alternatives. Instead it's a grand dismissal of science and the exploitation of "plausible" doubt as a means to "prove" creationism ... when in fact it doesn't prove anything close to that at all.

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