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Future PM of Canada

well...maybe. Anytime I've read any of his articles, editorials, etc. I'm struck by his insight and intelligence. Here's someone who's a scholar and a journalist...not a businessman. Maybe the change needed to restore faith in the Liberal Party:

quote:

Ignatieff coming home to U of T Speculation on future swirls Is scholar aiming for Liberal helm? ANDREW MILLS OTTAWA BUREAU OTTAWA�Michael Ignatieff is coming home to Canada � leaving his post at Harvard University for a prestigious position at the University of Toronto, sources close to him say. This news, to be announced by the university today, will undoubtedly fuel speculation the Canadian-born scholar plans to make a bid for the leadership of the federal Liberal party. Ignatieff, 58, will become the Chancellor Jackman visiting professor in human rights policy and will also become a fellow at the university's Munk Centre for International Studies. He and his wife have bought a condominium close to the university's downtown campus, according to a friend who wanted to remain anonymous. They are expected to spend the bulk of this fall in Toronto as Ignatieff takes on duties at U of T and wraps up work as director of Harvard's Carr Centre for Human Rights Policy in Cambridge, Mass. Ignatieff will take up all his new duties in January. "His intention is not to make his move back to Canada temporary," the friend said. "His intention is to make it permanent." Suspicions have swirled through political circles in recent months that Ignatieff has the leadership of the Liberal party in his sights. Many will see his return to Canada after nearly 30 years abroad as preparation to run for the leadership. But Ignatieff has denied he has any such plans and his friends say his return to Canada isn't connected to his potential future career here. "He's been talking about coming back to Canada for a long time," said the friend, who is a member of the Liberal party. "I think that he is increasingly interested in the public and political debate in Canada, so I think all of these things have led him to make a decision that now is a good time. ... The issue for Michael Ignatieff will be how best for him to make a contribution to public and political debate. That will be a question he asks himself." Nevertheless, the attractive and charismatic Ignatieff, who is the author of several books, has been quietly circulating in some Liberal circles since March, when he came to Ottawa to deliver the keynote address at the party's policy convention. In May, according to party insiders, Ignatieff met with prominent Liberals in at least Quebec and Nova Scotia. And a group of prominent Toronto Liberals � who once supported leadership hopeful John Manley � have surrounded Ignatieff. That group, which includes Toronto lawyer Alfred Apps, has encouraged him to become more involved in the party, which has no obvious heir apparent who will take over when Prime Minister Paul Martin steps down as leader. Martin, who turns 67 on Sunday, will lead the Liberals into an election expected this winter. Ignatieff is going to have to build his profile if he wants to succeed Martin. In a poll conducted by SES Research for the Toronto Star this week, only 4 per cent of Canadians said they see Ignatieff as the prime contender to replace Martin. The poll showed Ignatieff falling behind Frank McKenna, Bob Rae and John Manley. Support for Ignatieff was tied with support for Martin Cauchon. Nevertheless, Ignatieff's increasing activity in the Liberal party represents a homecoming of sorts for a man who volunteered on Pierre Trudeau's bid for the leadership in 1968 and worked in the election that year after Trudeau came to power. Ignatieff's return to the University of Toronto is a homecoming as well; it's from that institution's Trinity College that he graduated in 1969. His father, diplomat George Ignatieff, served Trinity as provost in the 1970s, and the wider university as chancellor in the 1980s. Michael Ignatieff went on to complete a PhD in history at Harvard and then a master's degree at Cambridge University. He has worked as a journalist for the BBC, The Observer, Time magazine and, most recently, The New York Times Magazine. And his career as an academic has taken him from the University of British Columbia to King's College at Cambridge University, to Harvard and now to the U of T. The University of Toronto has been courting Ignatieff for several years, the friend said, and the decision to return is all Ignatieff's. "It's a world that's very familiar to him, to which he has a lot of strong and positive memories," the friend said. But the move may come as a surprise because as recently as March, he told the Star's Graham Fraser that leaving Harvard just wasn't in his future. "Simple things are true," Ignatieff said then. "I have the best job in the world, and I can't see any foreseeable circumstance where I want to change. And that's the hand-on-heart truth." Whatever the case, his acceptance of U of T's offer is a huge success for the university, which, according to a university source, has had difficulty filling the Chancellor Jackman chairs. They were created in 1998 after Henry Jackman, a former university chancellor and philanthropist, gave a $15 million endowment to attract internationally renowned scholars in the humanities to U of T.

source: Toronto Star - August 26, 2005

That man is a genius

I reccomend they read the book the Lesser Evil. It's basically anything and everything you need to know on world terrorism with brilliant arguments from every perspective.

God help us all if he was a Trudeau supporter...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r God help us all if he was a Trudeau supporter...

Hey now...Trudeau was a great leader and I believe we will see another Trudeau in power before the end of our life.

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Originally posted by ChemEnhanced Hey now...Trudeau was a great leader and I believe we will see another Trudeau in power before the end of our life.

Please God no. I know we're on our way to rock bottom but I'd prefer if we didn't hit it in my lifetime.

ok ok...this is not a Trudeau-bashing thread!

I'd love to see someone with more of an academic slant get into office...he's a renowned professor, author, journalist, etc. Not just some dude out to make a buck or a name for himself. Refreshing, IMHO.

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Originally posted by MarkT he's a renowned professor, author, journalist, etc.

In other words, loony left.

Personally, I'd like to see someone with *practical* knowledge and experience elected!

Disgusting article.

-There's no mention of what's best for CANADA, only what's best for the PARTY.

-The elites are seeking a coronation, not an election. This article is part of that process.

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Originally posted by MarkT I'm struck by his insight and intelligence. Here's someone who's a scholar

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Originally posted by MarkT I'd love to see someone with more of an academic slant get into office...

Since when do you care about intelligence? Stephen Harper is widely accepted to be the most intelligent and scholarly politician since Trudeau (which is why the Lieberals want to destroy him so badly), and yet I don't see you waxing poetic about him.

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quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Maybe the change needed to restore faith in the Liberal Party

It would take a lot more than a new leader. The entire graft/patronage power structure in this country needs to be dismantled. Refounding the Lieberal Party would be a good start.

More ideas here:
http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h703.html

-He's not qualified to be Prime Minister of Canada. Minister for International Cooperation, maybe... but not PM.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf Disgusting article. -There's no mention of what's best for CANADA, only what's best for the PARTY. -The elites are seeking a coronation, not an election. This article is part of that process. - Since when do you care about intelligence? Stephen Harper is widely accepted to be the most intelligent and scholarly politician since Trudeau

By who? I don't see it. He's been an advisor, worked for a special interest group, then became a politition. He has no schollarly background. Having an MA does not make one "intelligent and scholarly." Man, you really believe all the propoganda the conservatives spew out don't you?

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut quote: Originally posted by MarkT he's a renowned professor, author, journalist, etc. In other words, loony left.

So you're admitting that in general, well-educated, intelligent people tend to lean towards the left? That should tell you something, no?

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf More ideas here: http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h703.html

so typical of conservatives. gets into a discussion about whether someone should/shouldn't be considered a decent candidate for Prime Minister of CANADA, and points to a website about AMERICAN history as a support to his arguments.

^^^ lol...typical, indeed.

Shadowolf's criticism is just stupid...why would they talk about what's best for Canada when this individual has neither been publicly approached by the Liberal party nor publicly stated a desire to join and lead it as of yet...so writing about what's "best for Canada" is a wee bit premature, no?!?

but that's Shadowolf's usual M.O...that he calls this article "disgusting" simply indicates his anti-Liberal bias. If this was an article about some Green Party candidate (or any party other than the Liberals, for that matter), he'd be posting an entirely different opinion, lol

quote:

Originally posted by xls So you're admitting that in general, well-educated, intelligent people tend to lean towards the left? That should tell you something, no?

- Academics <> well-educated, intelligent people
- Journalists and authors <> well-educated, intelligent people

Honestly, from where did you get this stereotype? Success in the academic world derives primarily from the ability to parrot textbook knowledge and the professor's bias; and success in journalism comes mainly from pandering to special-interest groups and media bias.

Success <> intelligence. Success = ability to exploit people.

^^^ that's a rather negative exaggeration and stereotype as well. Are you suggesting that Ignatieff achieved what he has through regurgitating textbook info, kissing profs' asses, and pandering to special interest groups?

In my experience, the people holding the most negative views of the academic world are those who haven't spent much time in it...

This is all irrelevant to the thread anyway...I was merely pointing out someone who could very well be a leadership candidate for the Liberal party in the future and how it might be refreshing to have someone come from a different background than law and business (the typical ones for our PMs, it seems).

The Liberal bashers want some change and integrity brought to the party...maybe some positive remarks about someone with Ignatieff's reputation are therefore in order?

quote:

Originally posted by xls so typical of conservatives. gets into a discussion about whether someone should/shouldn't be considered a decent candidate for Prime Minister of CANADA, and points to a website about AMERICAN history as a support to his arguments.

It's an older country that's experienced many of the things Canada is currently experiencing. For example, with respect to the threat of Quebec and Alberta/Western separation, we can learn a lot from the Civil War. With respect to Lieberal corruption, we can learn a lot from the Tammany Hall/Boss Tweed era.

We can either learn from their mistakes or repeat them. The wise choice is the former.

You need to open your mind.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Shadowolf's criticism is just stupid...why would they talk about what's best for Canada when this individual has neither been publicly approached by the Liberal party nor publicly stated a desire to join and lead it as of yet...so writing about what's "best for Canada" is a wee bit premature, no?!?

That's exactly my point. Paul Martin hasn't stepped down, yet people are already talking about his replacement. This article was designed to lay the ground work for the next coronation.

quote:

but that's Shadowolf's usual M.O...that he calls this article "disgusting" simply indicates his anti-Liberal bias. If this was an article about some Green Party candidate (or any party other than the Liberals, for that matter), he'd be posting an entirely different opinion, lol

That's because the federal Lieberals have a problem with democracy (just look at today's Senate appointments). We're supposed to be in awe of this guy's credentials as he's being forced upon us.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT In my experience, the people holding the most negative views of the academic world are those who haven't spent much time in it...

I've already got one degree, and I intend on getting another. That doesn't change my viewpoint - it's a means to an end, nothing more. The piece of paper is a status symbol that entitles one to preferential treatment because of a *supposed* standard of achievement and intelligence. More than anything else, the university degree is a relic from a time when academics were about independent thinking and challenging the status quo, not accepting the status quo as gospel and coming up with new ways to defend it and browbeat the free thinkers.

I'm not saying that every graduate and every professor in every program at every university follows this pattern, but the academic world *at large* certainly does. Just look at the "speech codes" in half the U.S. universities and almost all the Canadian universities. Brainwashing 101.

quote:

The Liberal bashers want some change and integrity brought to the party...maybe some positive remarks about someone with Ignatieff's reputation are therefore in order?

What makes you think (and why do you expect us to believe) that an LPC candidate with a more academic background is going to do have more integrity once put in a position of power? Ask any conservative student about their experiences with professors when they've tried to voice their opinions, and you'll learn very quickly that the average academic's "integrity" only exists when they're dealing with like-minded people.

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Originally posted by ShadoWolf That's exactly my point. Paul Martin hasn't stepped down, yet people are already talking about his replacement. This article was designed to lay the ground work for the next coronation.

so what??? How is that a "disgusting" article. Your exaggerations are soooo lame. How else do you get people's name out there than to put out pieces like this one??? Since when is it unusual to talk about someone's replacement before they leave office? Should we wait until the day Martin leaves, THEN start putting out names? Give me a break, lol...you're being ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf That's because the federal Lieberals have a problem with democracy (just look at today's Senate appointments). We're supposed to be in awe of this guy's credentials as he's being forced upon us.

I knew someone would mention these Senate appointments, lol...Paul Martin has appointed about a dozen Liberals (and 5 non-Liberals) to the Senate...I'm not sure if this source includes the latest appointments, so the # appears to be either 11 or 13.

Brian Mulroney appointed FIFTY-FIVE Conservatives to the Senate...and only two non-Conservatives...during his tenure as PM

In all fairness, Chretien was even worse than Mulroney...point being that it's not just the evil Liberals who take care of their own, it seems.

source: Senate Appointments by Prime Ministers

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I've already got one degree, and I intend on getting another. That doesn't change my viewpoint - it's a means to an end, nothing more. The piece of paper is a status symbol that entitles one to preferential treatment because of a *supposed* standard of achievement and intelligence. More than anything else, the university degree is a relic from a time when academics were about independent thinking and challenging the status quo, not accepting the status quo as gospel and coming up with new ways to defend it and browbeat the free thinkers. I'm not saying that every graduate and every professor in every program at every university follows this pattern, but the academic world *at large* certainly does. Just look at the "speech codes" in half the U.S. universities and almost all the Canadian universities. Brainwashing 101.

a university degree is not a measure of intelligence...I never claimed it was. I would say it indicates some level or ability in critical thinking, analysis, research, being well read in their area(s) of study, etc. To say a degree means nothing or is just a status symbol is bullshit.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut What makes you think (and why do you expect us to believe) that an LPC candidate with a more academic background is going to do have more integrity once put in a position of power? Ask any conservative student about their experiences with professors when they've tried to voice their opinions, and you'll learn very quickly that the average academic's "integrity" only exists when they're dealing with like-minded people.

I didn't say he had more integrity...more intelligence...or is "better". I just said it might be a refreashing change.

wow...shit...fuk me for suggesting that some change might be good. This just tells me that some people are soooo biased that no matter what the party does, the Liberals can do no good.

Your final line is humourous...so you're suggesting that most professors are Liberals who stifle the voices and opinions of their Conservative students. Dude, lay off the conspiracy theories, LOL

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut - Academics <> well-educated, intelligent people - Journalists and authors <> well-educated, intelligent people

Thanks for the tip, captain obvious.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Honestly, from where did you get this stereotype?

haha I was just quoting you!

easy, i'm just having a laugh. that's my other beef with conservatives - no sense of humour!

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf It's an older country that's experienced many of the things Canada is currently experiencing. For example, with respect to the threat of Quebec and Alberta/Western separation, we can learn a lot from the Civil War. With respect to Lieberal corruption, we can learn a lot from the Tammany Hall/Boss Tweed era.

And with respect to conservative corruption and cronyism, we can learn a lot from the past 30 years. (And don't even bring up the Clinton era as an example of liberalism during that time period.)

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf We can either learn from their mistakes or repeat them. The wise choice is the former.

Congratulations, you passed grade 10 history!

On the other hand, you missed my point entirely.

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf Disgusting article. -There's no mention of what's best for CANADA, only what's best for the PARTY. -The elites are seeking a coronation, not an election. This article is part of that process.

Looks like I was exactly right. A party that's run like a dictatorship will run the country like a dictatorship. The Lieberal Party needs to be purged so that honest liberals (mentioned in the article) will no longer be tainted.

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...7e6588b&k=61815

Ignatieff 'coronation' protested in riding

Ukrainians cite writings

James Cowan
National Post

Monday, November 28, 2005

TORONTO - The man touted as a potential successor to Prime Minister Paul Martin ran into trouble yesterday before he had even officially entered politics, as members of a Toronto riding association protested his "coronation" as their local candidate.

Harvard professor Michael Ignatieff is seen as a star candidate in the coming election, but members of the Etobicoke-Lakeshore Liberal riding association said yesterday they do not want him running in their riding.

Protesting outside their party's offices in downtown Toronto, association members said Mr. Ignatieff was a poor choice for their riding because he has expressed views that are offensive to the area's large Ukrainian population, including his admission that he feels a "disdain" for Ukrainians.

Association members alleged the Liberal party has subverted its normal procedures to make it difficult for anyone to challenge Mr. Ignatieff's bid for the nomination.

"It's quite clear that they want to drop a high-profile candidate into this riding and they'll make it as tough as they can to let anyone else in," said Marc Shwec, who wants to seek the nomination.

"The Liberals are looking for good governance and they said they've cleaned up shop. You would think they would play by their own rules, as ugly as they may be," Mr. Shwec said.

Carrying signs reading "Local Liberals Locked Out" and "Democratic Deficit Strikes Again," approximately 40 riding association members rallied yesterday, threatening not to support Mr. Ignatieff if he becomes the local candidate.

"I just think it's a sham," said Ron Chyczij, the association's president. "I'm personally very disappointed."

The Liberals had been searching for a riding for Mr. Ignatieff for several months, but already had a full slate of candidates in the Toronto region. A space was finally cleared for him on Friday, when Minister of State Jean Augustine agreed to step aside.

Mr. Chyczij said he was told late on Friday that Ms. Augustine was stepping aside and that individuals interested in replacing her should file nomination papers by 5 p.m. on Saturday. Two candidates, Mr. Chyczij and Mr. Shwec, completed the paperwork on schedule. But when Mr. Chyczij attempted to file the nomination papers at the Liberal offices, he discovered that despite the obvious presence of people inside, the doors were locked.

"I counted at least five people, but they just wouldn't answer the door," Mr. Chyzij said. "I hammered the door so hard, I thought I was going to break either my wrist or the door."

After numerous phone calls and further banging, Mr. Chyzij said he slid the paper under the door.

Liberal officials said yesterday they will honour the nomination papers if they were filed on time.

"There is a standard set of criteria across Ontario," said Mike Crawley, president of the Liberal Party of Canada-Ontario.

There was no effort to block other candidates from competing, Mr. Crawley added.

"Any nomination process has its share of acrimony and sometimes things boil over, but calmer heads usually prevail," he said.

Among the reasons it has been so difficult for the Liberals to find a riding for Mr. Ignatieff was his support of the war in Iraq, which made him a poor choice for any area with a high Muslim population. But Liberals in Etobicoke-Lakeshore believe the academic is equally ill-suited to their riding, which boasts a large Ukrainian population. In his book Blood and Belonging, the author invokes Russian imperialism, writing he feels a "disdain" for the Ukrainian people. Mr. Ignatieff describes Ukrainian culture as "embroidered peasant shirts, the nasal whine of ethnic instruments, phony Cossacks in cloaks and boots."

Mr. Ignatieff -- who is returning to Toronto after several decades in Boston, and had been scheduled to teach at the University of Toronto -- could not be reached for comment.

� National Post 2005

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Success = ability to exploit people

hahah now who's the loony left

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut In other words, loony left. Personally, I'd like to see someone with *practical* knowledge and experience elected!

Sigh why does someone who is an academic have to be from the loony left? Does not writing ablility and the scholarship and research have any merit?


oh well I suppose. How goes that book burning event there digitwat?

Swilly san

quote:

Originally posted by ShadoWolf Since when do you care about intelligence? Stephen Harper is widely accepted to be the most intelligent and scholarly politician since Trudeau (which is why the Lieberals want to destroy him so badly), and yet I don't see you waxing poetic about him.

Jack Layton has a Phd and Stephen Harper has a M.A. Thus although proving who is more intelligent might be difficult short of an I.Q test ( which is a culturally subjective test anyways) we can at least prove that Layton is more educated then harper.

Paul Martin went to Law school and gille duceppe has a B.A.

So in fact Layton is the most educated out of all of them.

Thus if one should vote based on education then we should all vote for the NDP.
So there!

Swilly

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