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self evolution

does self evolution (on a mental level) occur?
i am inclined to believe it does, as i feel i have managed to 'delete' most of the normal 'human' traits which are unnecessary in my eyes, while developing the ones that do assist me in attaining my goals.

if it does occur, are everyone capable of controlling their evolution to the same extent i can?

can it really be counted as evolution? meaning, will the traits we strive to develop pass to our offspring? will the ones we eliminated dissapear from our lineage?


on a physical level, does our diet and our developed physique pass on to our offspring?


if we can impact evolution... how far can we take it?
for instance, on the mental side, do we have any limits on how far we can change it? (not necessarily within the confines of one generation)

I can't find the actual article but I remember reading an article about an experiment where they conditioned cockroaches to do a maze.
They breed several generations (something like 20), then took those new roaches to the same maze and they were able to navigate after a few attempts even though they've never been near or seen it before
How's that for mind blowing?

While this doesn't answer the question about 'self-evolution', I believe if mental genetic traits can be passed down via DNA, why can't evolution happen within ourselves?
What is learning then if not a form of evolution?

Psy-T, I was about to make a thread just like this.. weird. But mine focuses more on the relationship between diet and tall genes.

What I was going to post:

Will people always be taller than their parents? Suppose your parents are 6' and 5'10 ft. Is it possible for you to be something like 6'3?

I always see boys who are taller than both of their parents, and this got me thinking about that 'maximum' height that's embedded in our genes. It isn't really an average of both parent's height is it?

If this is so, would it mean that your diet/exercising can bring out some recessive tallness if it's better than what your parent's diet was? Is this the rule or exception?

I'm DYING to know this.

I believe in self evolution. When my evolution level passes 10,000 my hair turns gold and my penis inflates to thrice its normal size.

Re: self evolution

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T does self evolution (on a mental level) occur? i am inclined to believe it does, as i feel i have managed to 'delete' most of the normal 'human' traits which are unnecessary in my eyes, while developing the ones that do assist me in attaining my goals. if it does occur, are everyone capable of controlling their evolution to the same extent i can? can it really be counted as evolution? meaning, will the traits we strive to develop pass to our offspring? will the ones we eliminated dissapear from our lineage?

To put it shortly, no. Theoretically you can argue that your offspring have a bigger chance than others to have a mindset similar to your own, so that they are more likely to share your desires than are those children who are not your offspring, but aside from that it doesn't really work.

quote:

on a physical level, does our diet and our developed physique pass on to our offspring?

No, unless you eat radioactive or genome affecting dinners.

quote:

if we can impact evolution... how far can we take it? for instance, on the mental side, do we have any limits on how far we can change it? (not necessarily within the confines of one generation)

Well we can only impact it in a way to selectively breed or modify our genetic code so the question is not really applicable. On a personal level I don't think you can pinpoint a strict limit on how far you can change your mindset if you're really willing to do it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology

i found this ebook to be very good:
http://www.trans4mind.com/transformation/index.html

Gurdjieff and Ouspensky are interesting philosophers to look into also

Re: Re: self evolution

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 To put it shortly, no. Theoretically you can argue that your offspring have a bigger chance than others to have a mindset similar to your own, so that they are more likely to share your desires than are those children who are not your offspring, but aside from that it doesn't really work. No, unless you eat radioactive or genome affecting dinners. Well we can only impact it in a way to selectively breed or modify our genetic code so the question is not really applicable. On a personal level I don't think you can pinpoint a strict limit on how far you can change your mindset if you're really willing to do it.

d'oh, forgot this thread

tito, could you please write what brings you to your conclusions?

quote:

Originally posted by tathi i found this ebook to be very good: http://www.trans4mind.com/transformation/index.html Gurdjieff and Ouspensky are interesting philosophers to look into also

i read quite a lot of the content on that site, and none of it had anything much to do with my questions about whether we can direct evolution

it did pat my ego though

quote:

Originally posted by Aquarian http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolutionary_psychology

i dont think that description fits what i was describing, as it's completely based on the concepts of the normal 'passive' evolution alone... and not of actively affecting it (or have i missed something?)

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T d'oh, forgot this thread tito, could you please write what brings you to your conclusions?

quote:

To put it shortly, no. Theoretically you can argue that your offspring have a bigger chance than others to have a mindset similar to your own, so that they are more likely to share your desires than are those children who are not your offspring, but aside from that it doesn't really work.

It is often the case that psychological diseases like schizophrenia or inclination to violence are genetic. It is also the case that identical twins often have affinity towards similar occupations.

quote:

No, unless you eat radioactive or genome affecting dinners.

Eh, what is being carried to your offspring is your DNA, not your achievements. Basically meaning if you're naturally big and strong you'll probably have big and strong children. But if you're naturally small and weak, your children will be small and weak regardless of the fact how much time you spend at the gym. Now, both you and your children can go to the gym more frequently than other people and end up being big and strong, because your body adapts to the stimuli induced upon it. But in no way can those stimuli be carried on to your offspring. It's like loosing an arm in a war and then having your child born without an arm.

quote:

Well we can only impact it in a way to selectively breed or modify our genetic code so the question is not really applicable. On a personal level I don't think you can pinpoint a strict limit on how far you can change your mindset if you're really willing to do it.

It means that if we continually kill stupid people and have smart people have many children ultimately human race should become smarter. If you're not smart but try really hard you can reach the level of smarter but more lazy people, but your children will not benfit much from it except for the social aspect of being raised in a better environment.

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 It is often the case that psychological diseases like schizophrenia or inclination to violence are genetic. It is also the case that identical twins often have affinity towards similar occupations. Eh, what is being carried to your offspring is your DNA, not your achievements. Basically meaning if you're naturally big and strong you'll probably have big and strong children. But if you're naturally small and weak, your children will be small and weak regardless of the fact how much time you spend at the gym. Now, both you and your children can go to the gym more frequently than other people and end up being big and strong, because your body adapts to the stimuli induced upon it. But in no way can those stimuli be carried on to your offspring. It's like loosing an arm in a war and then having your child born without an arm. It means that if we continually kill stupid people and have smart people have many children ultimately human race should become smarter. If you're not smart but try really hard you can reach the level of smarter but more lazy people, but your children will not benfit much from it except for the social aspect of being raised in a better environment.

thanks, though you didn't need to elaborate on all of it
the main thing i had a problem with was your first "no", you expanded on it enough in the second paragraph

i should have probably phrased my original main question better.

"we can not influence our DNA without external chemicals" or something to that effect would have summed it up, and it is implied in your post, so good enough for me

thanks again

What about mental conditioning? I mean, is it possible to alter the way you think and react in certain situations? Everybody has a unique personality, and as such, would react to any given circumstances in a different way. But lately I've noticed that there are aspects of my personality that I'd rather change, and I've been wondering whether it's actually possible.

I don't want to lower the tone of the topic, but take the example of getting into a fight, for example. I've had a couple of years of training in a martial art, and so I know I could easily defend myself should the need arise. But having said that, it's not in my nature to be violent. Not at all. While I'm at university, I live in quite a rough town, and so there's a definite possibilty that I may end up having to defend myself, but if my naturally calm personality stops me from fighting back shall we say, that could put me at a disadvantage to say the least.

So is it possible to alter my personality/character to become slightly more aggressive for example? I know that there are products on the market such as CD's that you listen to while you sleep, which condition you to stop smoking or boost your confidence etc, but do they really work?

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury What about mental conditioning? I mean, is it possible to alter the way you think and react in certain situations? Everybody has a unique personality, and as such, would react to any given circumstances in a different way. But lately I've noticed that there are aspects of my personality that I'd rather change, and I've been wondering whether it's actually possible. I don't want to lower the tone of the topic, but take the example of getting into a fight, for example. I've had a couple of years of training in a martial art, and so I know I could easily defend myself should the need arise. But having said that, it's not in my nature to be violent. Not at all. While I'm at university, I live in quite a rough town, and so there's a definite possibilty that I may end up having to defend myself, but if my naturally calm personality stops me from fighting back shall we say, that could put me at a disadvantage to say the least. So is it possible to alter my personality/character to become slightly more aggressive for example? I know that there are products on the market such as CD's that you listen to while you sleep, which condition you to stop smoking or boost your confidence etc, but do they really work?

if i didnt believed in the concept of mental conditioning, i would not have started this topic

the more objectively you analyse every situation in your life, the more you are capable of changing your response each situation.

That's probably true, but sometimes you dont have time to take a step back and analyze the situation as much as you'd like to. So how would you go about changing the way you instinctively act to a certain event? Usually, it's your instincts that kick in, but if it's your instincts that you want to change, is it even possible?

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury That's probably true, but sometimes you dont have time to take a step back and analyze the situation as much as you'd like to. So how would you go about changing the way you instinctively act to a certain event? Usually, it's your instincts that kick in, but if it's your instincts that you want to change, is it even possible?

i dont know how much time other people need, but i myself only need a small fraction of a second.

if it takes you longer, maybe you ought to simulate the event and train yourself to respond to it the way you want to instead of the way you are programmed to.

simulation and repetition.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T i dont know how much time other people need, but i myself only need a small fraction of a second.

Well yeah, I guess. But don't you ever find yourself in a situation of any kind (for example, maybe you're on the phone, or you meet a friend that you've not seen in a while) and later on you think to yourself "damn, why didn't I say that/do that?!". I always do, so it'd be nice to be able to train my mind to think before I act. Easier said than done though, I suppose.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T simulation and repetition.

Yeah it's worth a try. Although when you think about how many different situations you're likely to be put in, you cant possibly "prepare yourself" for them all, which is why I'd rather change the way my mind works altogether.

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury Well yeah, I guess. But don't you ever find yourself in a situation of any kind (for example, maybe you're on the phone, or you meet a friend that you've not seen in a while) and later on you think to yourself "damn, why didn't I say that/do that?!".

nope

quote:

Originally posted by Streakfury Yeah it's worth a try. Although when you think about how many different situations you're likely to be put in, you cant possibly "prepare yourself" for them all, which is why I'd rather change the way my mind works altogether.

you can prepare yourself for the events you're worried about, i dont see any reason to deal with *every* situation.

quote:

Originally posted by Psy-T does self evolution (on a mental level) occur?

Yes Derleek, it does. However, it only occurs when one makes a conscious decision to bring about change for their own well being.

quote:

if it does occur, are everyone capable of controlling their evolution to the same extent i can?

Everyone has the capbility to do so, it's just the question of the desire. One can claim that they want to change all they want, but until their will truly takes over, it is all talk. In order to evolve, we must make sacrifices and committments. Without such things, there is no evolution.

quote:

can it really be counted as evolution? meaning, will the traits we strive to develop pass to our offspring? will the ones we eliminated dissapear from our lineage?

Some of them maybe, but due to outside influences some habits and traits are picked up along the way. Everyone is indeed their own person. Are you like your parents? Probably not. (Thank goodness I don't want children )

quote:

on a physical level, does our diet and our developed physique pass on to our offspring?

Sometimes... depends on your childs taste preferences, and again, outside influences. But overall fat people breed fat children and slender people likewise breed slender children.

quote:

if we can impact evolution... how far can we take it? for instance, on the mental side, do we have any limits on how far we can change it? (not necessarily within the confines of one generation)

Depends on how far you're talking about.

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