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There are American churches, and then there are normal churches

In the United States, what is the general position of churches vis-a-vis Bush, the war in Iraq, and his various policies?

Yep. Strongly supportive. Republican, conservative, and generally pro-war.

But you needn't go far to discover a vastly different situation, even starting with America's staunchiest Ally: Great Britain.

The Church of England issued a joint report criticizing Bush, his party's use of biblical references, and his policies:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story...1573224,00.html

I'm sure many Americans would be very surprised.

I've been to Church though I am not Christian and i've yet to hear the Rev say " GO KILL ARABS THEY ARE SATAN!"


Also, seeing how there are dozens of branches of Christianity that report is totall bullshit.

Well, I think you're missing the point.

The point is: American churches are pro-Bush. The world's churches, in particular even Great Britain's, are generally anti-Bush. And many Americans would be shocked to hear this, because they consider their local political landscape to be pretty generic and applicable to the rest of the world.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd Well, I think you're missing the point. The point is: American churches are pro-Bush. The world's churches, in particular even Great Britain's, are generally anti-Bush. And many Americans would be shocked to hear this, because they consider their local political landscape to be pretty generic and applicable to the rest of the world.

maybe in washington, d.c. Also, that's why there's seperation of state and church. Also, church's views aren't practical like politicians or regular people. In Russia the church doesn't like the war in Chechnya, but do they even know what's going on there? Most likely not.



EDIT: I get the point and i couldn't care less what religious leaders are moaning about. They are just about as money grabbing and power seeking as politicians.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd The point is: American churches are pro-Bush. The world's churches, in particular even Great Britain's, are generally anti-Bush. And many Americans would be shocked to hear this, because they consider their local political landscape to be pretty generic and applicable to the rest of the world.

That sounds pretty suspect. Actually, what it sounds like is a poor attempt using reverse logic to say that Bush supporters are predominately religious nutbags. In any event, I think you're using too broad of a brush stroke to try and make an argument--without posting any sort of hard evidence. At my church, I hear a lot of prayers for our troops, but more importantly, prayers for peace. Not to mention that my congregation is, in and of itself, incredibly diverse. I'd venture to say that there are more liberal Democrats in my congregation than there are conservative Republicans--and I think it has more to do with demographics than it does religion.

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Originally posted by Lepanto I've been to Church though I am not Christian and i've yet to hear the Rev say " GO KILL ARABS THEY ARE SATAN!"

Well, I don't know, you recently had a famous religious nutbag that was advocating the assasination of the Venuzuelan president

I think it's as common as that religious high ups in the US say bad things about Arabs as it is that religious idiots in Arab countries say the same thing about the US ppl...

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Originally posted by St_Andrew Well, I don't know, you recently had a famous religious nutbag that was advocating the assasination of the Venuzuelan president

i wonder what he was famous for.

No, the thread creator is correct. At least in my area, I would say 95% of the churches and the church-goers are pro-bush. I personally do not go to church, but on the little boards outside of the church, it is often pro-bush or pro-war writings. My sister has been to church a month ago and she does not go back because it is "too conservative" for her. She says they talk about Bush and politics, which she finds to be inappropriate for church. There has also been cases where people were asked to leave a certain church because of their political views.

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Originally posted by Lepanto i wonder what he was famous for.

Yeah, and what is bin Laden and his alikes famous for?

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Originally posted by St_Andrew Yeah, and what is bin Laden and his alikes famous for?

yeah so let's support him now

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Originally posted by Lepanto yeah so let's support him now

ehm, no

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Originally posted by St_Andrew ehm, no

i think we both are confused by the other lol

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Originally posted by Shakka I think it has more to do with demographics than it does religion.

good point

+1

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Originally posted by Sunsail No, the thread creator is correct. At least in my area, I would say 95% of the churches and the church-goers are pro-bush. I personally do not go to church, but on the little boards outside of the church, it is often pro-bush or pro-war writings. My sister has been to church a month ago and she does not go back because it is "too conservative" for her. She says they talk about Bush and politics, which she finds to be inappropriate for church. There has also been cases where people were asked to leave a certain church because of their political views.

what a wonderful place to go to church..

I can only talk about the LDS church ( Latter Day Saints ).. It gives NO stance on either side of politics. Its up to the members to do the voting under their own judgement. As far as other churches rallying their members to vote for certain candidates.. then yeah.

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Originally posted by Lepanto ... that's why there's seperation of state and church....

Explain to me the non-religious reason why you cannot buy beer in NYC 4 am- 12 am on sundays? Or why you cannot buy beer at gas stations on sundays in Georgia?

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Originally posted by trancaholic Explain to me the non-religious reason why you cannot buy beer in NYC 4 am- 12 am on sundays? Or why you cannot buy beer at gas stations on sundays in Georgia?

because you should be home recovering


yes because i know all about hickcountry from just driving through there once...and i had no problem getting bear in Georgia on my roadtrip to Miami last spring break. but ofcourse beer is such an essential part of a culture that it will start a war...only in europe.

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Originally posted by Lepanto but ofcourse beer is such an essential part of a culture that it will start a war...only in europe.

funny thing is, beer is part of American culture too. Watch any TV shows or ads or movies. But, Americans are funny. THey talk about beer all the time yet they're paranoid about it at the same time, lol.

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Originally posted by Lepanto because you should be home recovering yes because i know all about hickcountry from just driving through there once...and i had no problem getting bear in Georgia on my roadtrip to Miami last spring break. but ofcourse beer is such an essential part of a culture that it will start a war...only in europe.

I'll take that as an "I can't counter-argue your point, so I'll go for ridicule and ad hominems, while trying to forget that I live in a theocracy tainted democracy".

I win!

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Originally posted by trancaholic Explain to me the non-religious reason why you cannot buy beer in NYC 4 am- 12 am on sundays? Or why you cannot buy beer at gas stations on sundays in Georgia?

Explain to me why you can't buy beer in NYC at 3:59AM on Sundays. Does God go to bed later in NYC because of the club scene?

Additionally, that blue law is a royal pain in the ass. It makes for a bitch of a Superbowl Sunday if you don't plan in advance. What's even dumber is that you can go to any restaurant or bar on a Sunday and drink until you can't see 2 feet in front of your face.

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Originally posted by Shakka Explain to me why you can't buy beer in NYC at 3:59AM on Sundays. Does God go to bed later in NYC because of the club scene?

You can't?

(As I'm at a loss for a rational explanation for why the hours between 4 and 12 have been singled out as non-beer hours, I can of course not offer any rational ideas of why other times of the day might share this characteristic. And I don't know more about God's bedtime than I do about aliens' preferences between carrots and scuba diving.)

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Originally posted by trancaholic You can't?

Beats me. I was just using strange logic based on the previous comment. 4AM is BEER TIME BABY!

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(As I'm at a loss for a rational explanation for why the hours between 4 and 12 have been singled out as non-beer hours, I can of course not offer any rational ideas of why other times of the day might share this characteristic. And I don't know more about God's bedtime than I do about aliens' preferences between carrots and scuba diving.)

LOL. That's why I stock up on beer on Friday and Saturday! It helps that I live less than a mile from a drive-thru liquor store if I find myself running short on time.

God prefers carrots. They are a great source of Vitamin A. I do not know about the aliens--or the spaghetti monster for that matter.

Politicians twist religion around as it benifits them, none of them ever truely follow it, there is always something they do that goes against the religion that they claim is the one they are following, especially bush. Religions also twist politics around as it benifits them. Alot of chuches appeal to conservatives because they show up and support churches when they proclaim that conservatives are the pious side of the gov't and the liberals are not.

One particular incident I remember about Bush and christianity is when reporters asked him if he beleives that only christians go to heaven, he said no although his religion says yes. He just didn't want to piss off the masses before election. Another one I remember was the whole "culture of life" issue after the recent pope died, the christian right was all over the tv saying they liked the pope and supported his culture of life idea, then at the same time they were enforcing the death penealty and figting a premature war which was explicitly condemmed by the pope.

You guys sure are hasty to make unjustified stereotypes about each other, it really shows how little some of you know about what life really is like in the places that you talk shit about. Not all American churches are in favor of the republicans believe it or not, it is actually pretty easy to find a church that is completely absent of political opinion(like that mormon dude who replied), or even a church that is against current politics. I live in the bible belt, I have seen it first hand.

Personally I think churches should not get involved in political arguments. Although I do agree that the neocon ideals and the teachings of christ to not nearly match as much as the gov't and some churches say they do.

UnWorldly, if you ask a question "Who is taller, on average - men or women?" the correct answer is "men." Then you can try to point out exceptions: "Well, but there are SOME women who are taller than SOME men" -- okay, so f*cking what? Particular exceptions do not disprove a generalization based on trends.

Nobody is saying that neutral churches don't exist, what I'm saying is that the general mood here is one of strong political alignment between most churches and the current President and his policies.

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Originally posted by HardTranceProd Zombie0915, if you ask a question "Who is taller, on average - men or women?" the correct answer is "men." Then you can try to point out exceptions: "Well, but there are SOME women who are taller than SOME men" -- okay, so f*cking what? Particular exceptions do not disprove a generalization based on trends. Nobody is saying that neutral churches don't exist, what I'm saying is that the general mood here is one of strong political alignment between most churches and the current President and his policies.

+1

I totally agree with you. It's really annoying when people disregard popular trends becuase exceptions exist.

Offuckingcourse there is an alignment! Why is this even a discussion. George Bush is as conservative and religious as a man that we will see in office. Of course, the church will be on his side, Geore represents their values. I'm sorry guys, but America is not exaclty the land of the enlightened, therefore George and his values run deep. In a USA Today poll I saw last year a majority of Americans believe in angels. ANGELS! Furthermore, this country was founded by men with deep religious values, therefore the base of this country is a religious one. So please, stop wasting space on this page calling for all religion to just go away in this country. From the beginning religion has helped to guide this country and will continue to do so.

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