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Posted by WirelessEyes on Oct-11-2005 03:27:

Most talented Ableton DJ

What are your thoughts on todays top DJ's using a digital platform/Ableton Live? Most of all, my question is, who do you think is most talented at it? Sasha with his custome made controller, BT w/ the Laptop Symphony? Or James Zabiela with 2 CDJ's, a sampler, drum machine, and Live? Put your thoughts down on the keyboard.

Mine would be BT for the wild stutter edits he creates with the module he has (I forget the name). I saw him over the summer and really impressed me with a live performance.

Posted by cryo on Oct-11-2005 03:37:

you forgot about richie hawtin

Posted by sym on Oct-11-2005 13:54:

Re: Most talented Ableton DJ

quote:
Originally posted by WirelessEyes
Mine would be BT for the wild stutter edits he creates with the module he has (I forget the name). I saw him over the summer and really impressed me with a live performance.

watch these video's of Tim Exile using Reaktor 5 and some midi controllers.

http://www.nativeinstruments.com/in...s&tsr_id=34002#

Posted by retrobyte on Oct-11-2005 14:07:

SASHA 4EVA ZOMG!#!@11

actually, James Zabiela gets my vote. "Utilities Disc 2: Recorded" was simply amazing - it was a very flowing and converging set, but somehow maintained my interest the entire way through. It was like one constantly evolving song. Here's a part of the press release that came with the 2 disc Utilities set:

"James Zabiela continues to prove he is at the forefront of DJing with this 2CD mix. Devoting one disc to the much publicised Ableton technology mixed entirely off computer. Whilst he goes totally live on the second using 3 CD decks and samplers and EFX units. Tracklist includes James’ incredible debut single ‘Robophobia’ plus cuts and remixes from Aphex Twin/Infusion/Buick Project/Trentemoller/Montero and many more…"

Wheeee - this guy is awesome. Kicks the pants off of Sasha in terms of what he does with the software and where he takes it.

Posted by Zild on Oct-11-2005 14:19:

James.

Posted by punjabi on Oct-11-2005 16:36:

sasha

Posted by idoru on Oct-11-2005 17:47:

Zabiela doesn't use it near it's full potential. My vote goes to either Richie Hawtin or the guy who beat-boxes with Ableton.

Posted by SpecRadio on Oct-11-2005 20:14:

I don't like software DJ's at all. I can put Armins set on, say it's mine and not do anything while all the people jam to "my" set.

I don't care if it's like SS or FS...that's still beatmatching by way of listening to both tunes and using pitch to get them matched. Sasha takes some wav files, puts them in albeton and moves his faders up and down. Takes no skill. When mixing like sasha with albeton...it's basically boring because there's nothing to listen to anymore....there's no more calling out "TRAINWRECK!" when a live set is on...and it's all jsut one big long boring song

Posted by djthunderbird on Oct-11-2005 20:56:

quote:
Originally posted by SpecRadio
I don't like software DJ's at all. I can put Armins set on, say it's mine and not do anything while all the people jam to "my" set.

I don't care if it's like SS or FS...that's still beatmatching by way of listening to both tunes and using pitch to get them matched. Sasha takes some wav files, puts them in albeton and moves his faders up and down. Takes no skill. When mixing like sasha with albeton...it's basically boring because there's nothing to listen to anymore....there's no more calling out "TRAINWRECK!" when a live set is on...and it's all jsut one big long boring song

im sorry but you really dont have a glue what its all about do you? (music)
applications like ableton, when used to their full extent, allow djs to play music right when and how they want it to be. They can re-arrange the whole song on the fly and add other interactive elements as they go. im sure you are already familiar with the concept, but I guess not with the outcome then: totally unique mixture of sound. Even when you catch these djs about a week later than the last time and you hear the same tune, its not really the same tune since its re-edited & arranged differently.

Ableton allows dj's to bring out their creativity that usual dj-tools (turntables and cdj's) tend to hinder.

Of course here comes the good old beatmatching argument.. If youre sayin' that the skill in djng consists of only beatmatching then I urge you to practice some more and I think that soon enough you will see that beatmatching IS a very trivial skill. ANYONE with a little ear & patience to learn it will some day reach the point when it takes about ~20-30 seconds (or less) to match two songs & then mix them perfectly.

I must agree with you to some extent: a dj set sounds a little more "live" when you occasionally hear the dj correct the beats a little.. (I guess its the same with tube amps and their 'warm' but then again not 'perfect' sound)

Posted by SpecRadio on Oct-11-2005 21:08:

But I truley don't see any skill being put into their sets.

I did watch that reaktor 5 thing...that actually took some skill. What Zab & Sasha do...requires the brain of an infant.

Zab just turns the efx 1000 on flange and jerks the CD player off as fast as he can...

And sasha moves faders up and down.

I listened to ONE sasha set on albeton. All I can say, is I've never heard anything as boring in my life. I could listen to dead air and have more enjoyment out of that.

If you don't want the same song to be played, remix it...or add efx or something. Put some vocals on top.

Plus...I've seen what sasha requires at ever club he plays at...sounds like a major fag . A Xone V6 with like 4 CDJ's...and if not...a Xone 62. If you don't have that, he wont play. Also, he needs the monitors the right way. Top DJ's/Producers are fags. Well...most of them.

Posted by jupiterone on Oct-11-2005 21:49:

Re: Re: Most talented Ableton DJ

quote:
Originally posted by sym
watch these video's of Tim Exile using Reaktor 5 and some midi controllers.

http://www.nativeinstruments.com/in...s&tsr_id=34002#

holy shit...

Posted by webbie on Oct-11-2005 23:04:

I guess Richie Hawtin or Surgeon if you look on how their screens are setup but i usually find Ableton-sets really really really boring.
Sasha's sets are pure sleepers, he adds the Lift Me Up-vocal during the bassline from one track and the beat of another, so what?
He can add whatever elements he wants but as SpecRadio said, his sets are one long sleeper.

Posted by Vlad on Oct-11-2005 23:14:

Clovis FTW.

Posted by jamiepollock643 on Oct-12-2005 00:16:

Posted by Clovis on Oct-12-2005 02:35:

Hawtin/Zabiela would be tied...

Sasha is using it to achieve his own sound he doesnt really care about "using it to its full extent".

Posted by idoru on Oct-12-2005 03:12:

quote:
Originally posted by SpecRadio
I listened to ONE sasha set on albeton. All I can say, is I've never heard anything as boring in my life. I could listen to dead air and have more enjoyment out of that.

I'm not backing-up Sasha here, but...

You're talking about tune-quality, not the technical-aspect. He bored you because, musically, it didn't fit your style. That has absolutely nothing to do with how he uses Ableton.

Posted by Psiweaver on Oct-12-2005 07:56:

sasha and hawtin both use it for different purposes. Sasha as someone said before to further his sound. Hawtin really takes abelton to the limit. Very nice work from both of them.

Posted by Xtracktor on Oct-12-2005 13:00:

quote:
Originally posted by Vlad
Clovis FTW.

+1

Posted by Clovis on Oct-15-2005 08:12:

quote:
Originally posted by SpecRadio
But I truley don't see any skill being put into their sets.

I did watch that reaktor 5 thing...that actually took some skill. What Zab & Sasha do...requires the brain of an infant.

Zab just turns the efx 1000 on flange and jerks the CD player off as fast as he can...

And sasha moves faders up and down.

I listened to ONE sasha set on albeton. All I can say, is I've never heard anything as boring in my life. I could listen to dead air and have more enjoyment out of that.

If you don't want the same song to be played, remix it...or add efx or something. Put some vocals on top.

Plus...I've seen what sasha requires at ever club he plays at...sounds like a major fag . A Xone V6 with like 4 CDJ's...and if not...a Xone 62. If you don't have that, he wont play. Also, he needs the monitors the right way. Top DJ's/Producers are fags. Well...most of them.

I didnt address this before but I would have to say that you are, full of shit.

You obviously have no FUCKING clue what you're talking about and have seen neither of these DJ's perform live. Sasha, while not using the full capabilities of live in anyway, uses it as a tool to shape his sets. He doesnt re-mix on the fly all the time, but he most certainly edits, aranging tracks so they can be mixed to his liking, i.e. looping/cutting so that the mixes come out the way he wants, making his sets unique. Sasha has always been lauded for his exceptionally long mixes and terriffic beatmatching, this allows him to take those to the next level.

Zabiela is just on another level with Ableton...he throws in samples and re-edits tracks in ways which are mind boggling, because he makes it seem so simple and makes it sound so "right".

All ableton does for you is beatmatch, which, any good dj will tell you, is NOT that hard in the first place...the rest of the mix is up to you, and with ableton you can get alot crazier than with a simple pair of CDJs/technics.

Posted by raveanddie on Oct-15-2005 08:59:

very interesting inputs you guys

i am thinking of buying a serato scratch live and hook it up with my pioneer cmx 3000 cd player.

can someone tell me how i can put ableton in between? ... i would like to make edits and nice loops.. but is ableton's job to make things on the fly or pre-edit and play the music at a later time?

those djs doing edits,adding funky sounds or any other effects to tracks, dont they need prior approval from that artist?

Posted by Nemesis44 on Oct-15-2005 12:40:

I don't know guys.

Whilst I hear good input in this thread I have certain reservations.

Whilst the above mentioned are good DJ's in their own right if you understand music a bit you will soon see some of the question marks I have about Ableton etc.

Agreed beatmatching is trivial no doubt and isn't and should never be the focus on this arguement.

My own gut reaction is that Ableton removes the spontaineous element of DJing.
Sure these guys are dropping in some really clever aditions and re-edits into their sets. But in order for it to work etc. there is a certain degree of preparation required before hand. You have to know if the section you drop is in key and so on. If you don't do this it will sound shite and there are no two ways about it.
There is also a limit to how much you can remix on the fly too without it getting messy and truth be told it sounds to me as if these guys work harder on their sets before hand than the actual performance itself.

When I saw Zabiela I saw about 20 people standing round him just watching him work, some even had notepads... This guy would make a fortune if he released a DVD.
That's not DJing that's just being a total Anorak and sometimes I don't think that everything Zabiela does sounds good, it's clever for the sake of it and I'm not really into that. His technical skills are good but I don't always rate the end content.

With regards to Sasha, well ok so he's not taking Ableton to the next level... does he have to?
In my opinion his sets were one big sleeper long before he went digital but that is personal preference.

Ableton does give you a nice edge on being able to do something unique if you have the talent for it, besides if I want to add a vocal into a breakdown I can anyway without digital.

One of the overhanging factors with Ableton with a lot of people is that it perhaps requires just an understanding of the technology rather than an aquired skill to perform. Granted you still have to have a good musical imagination to come up with the goods.

Some people may compare this to the time when computers were coming into music vs real instruments. The difference being that you still have to be musical even to write it on a computer.
You don't have to be a good DJ to use Ableton although it will certainly help.

I do however like the idea of Ableton in terms of perhaps doing some funky things to a track at home and then throwing that into your mix. In effect you play your own remix, although you don't need ableton to do that but it may make that a little less time consuming.

I'm not yet sold on the product but can see a lot of good things.

My vote would have to be Richie though, as the other to are about the same as watching paint dry for me in any context.

Cheers
Nem

Posted by djallure on Oct-25-2005 05:32:

quote:
Originally posted by Psiweaver
sasha and hawtin both use it for different purposes. Sasha as someone said before to further his sound. Hawtin really takes abelton to the limit. Very nice work from both of them.

+1