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Progress

Top o' the evenin' to ya...

Here's something I've been wondering about lately. I know we're all constantly improving as producers, so to speak, but have any of you found that there were periods where you really didn't make much progress? I'm not referring to musical inspiration, but rather the improvement of various skills involved in the process.

I know it can be hard to quantify, but I'm curious, how much do you think you've improved as a producer:
- In the past month?
- In the past 2-3 months?
- In the past 6 months?
- In the past year or more?

Personally I can't go beyond that since I've been producing less than a year, but feel free to extend that timeline if you've been doing it longer.

I think perhaps I've hit a plateau this month... last month I made leaps and bounds, which I suppose got me a little spoiled and I was expecting it to continue into this month. Didn't happen. It's not that I can't think of anything to write/produce, just that I think it should sound *better* than the stuff I did last month, and it doesn't. Maybe I'm just not being patient enough, or maybe my heart's not been in it lately.

Who else has got a very "jagged" learning curve? Anyone?

The plateau :

There is a saying (in martial arts) that the difference between being really good at something and being a master at something is the persistance of continuing on the same level for a long period of time and not having any progress at all .... then suddenly you get "insight" into all petty things ,
and you become a "master"...

don't know if this applies to production also ...

Re: Progress

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Top o' the evenin' to ya... Here's something I've been wondering about lately. I know we're all constantly improving as producers, so to speak, but have any of you found that there were periods where you really didn't make much progress? I'm not referring to musical inspiration, but rather the improvement of various skills involved in the process. I know it can be hard to quantify, but I'm curious, how much do you think you've improved as a producer: - In the past month? - In the past 2-3 months? - In the past 6 months? - In the past year or more? Personally I can't go beyond that since I've been producing less than a year, but feel free to extend that timeline if you've been doing it longer. I think perhaps I've hit a plateau this month... last month I made leaps and bounds, which I suppose got me a little spoiled and I was expecting it to continue into this month. Didn't happen. It's not that I can't think of anything to write/produce, just that I think it should sound *better* than the stuff I did last month, and it doesn't. Maybe I'm just not being patient enough, or maybe my heart's not been in it lately. Who else has got a very "jagged" learning curve? Anyone?

I haven't been able to produce in the past month because i've been busy, but 2-3 months ago was when I really learned a lot of stuff. I got a new computer, got some books, studied 'em, and got wayy better. I bought myself Fruity on my old computer 6 months ago, 63mb of ram, 333mhz, i only made very boring simple loops on teh thing. When I got a better computer, I could do more stuff, but I still lack ram damnit! My pc is limiting my progress again.




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DigiNut, your music is really good. I don't know if that helps though. You said your heart hasn't been in it lately? Maybe a small break will help, you're probobly burned out *shrug*.

how about changing equipment? (at least in software where in doesn't cost much) Get new Vsts and stuff. Download whatever you can just for fun. Using different stuff could could force you to learn new stuff you could then apply to your own stuff

change your environment...listen to other music (not edm) and try to incorporate ideas you don't normally would, but just for the challenge...you never know....

I think this whole year I've improved vastly, that just may be because I started last year around the same time.

Every few months I make a big improvement, and every track, I learn from it's mistakes. And improve it upon my next.

Diginut, you're an awesome producer, I've got all the songs in your sig (hope you don't mind), and I adore all of them . If you've hit the preverbal 'wall', maybe you should take a break, or produce something completely different. Different like, something you haven't tried before ie Happy Hardcore (heh), or maybe some IDM (just assuming you haven't gone there already).

quote:

Originally posted by groundzero74 The plateau : There is a saying (in martial arts) that the difference between being really good at something and being a master at something is the persistance of continuing on the same level for a long period of time and not having any progress at all .... then suddenly you get "insight" into all petty things , and you become a "master"... don't know if this applies to production also ...

I think I can almost very much concur with this.

You can always ask yourself if you REALLY need to keep improving all the time. I can understand very well if, at some point at a certain level, you say to yourself: "this is where I've always wanted to be" and be pleased with it. I think you can always keep on learning and improving, though I think there will be a 'limit' as to where your own capabilities might reach - without any external help.

"Persistence on the same level", I would say, is one of the key aspects of a producer's skill and 'quality' (if you can call it like that). At least, that's what always spoke to me the most with some of my favourite musicians

Definitely true about staying on a plateau. I haven't done any martial arts since I was a wee one, but I do work out, and it's the same principle - when you hit a plateau you just have to keep working at it, and change your exercises if possible. I am doing this - I started on a trip-hop track a few weeks ago and it was going pretty well until I started losing the drive (to produce in general, not for that particular track).

What I was really wondering about was how many other people have encountered this situation and how often/how long. Thanks for the inspirational words though, much appreciated.

I've only been producing about 4 months and I feel like I've gone from total noob at the subject to about a solid intermediate level (only because I don't know the program to it's fullest). It's amazing how much progress you make just from hearing other music such as jazz or drum and bass or whatever it may be and picking up some good rhythms from the tunes. I find that taking a shower though brings out the best of my production. It's basically my thinking grounds :-P . Anyways I feel that you being at a "plateau" is fine. You'll make progress you just haven't found that one thing that brings out the best in you or just like they say in martial arts you can't master something until you're on the plateau for awhile, then you get some sort of "insight." Good luck and I hope you make some progress soon...I know I have.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Definitely true about staying on a plateau. I haven't done any martial arts since I was a wee one, but I do work out, and it's the same principle - when you hit a plateau you just have to keep working at it, and change your exercises if possible. I am doing this - I started on a trip-hop track a few weeks ago and it was going pretty well until I started losing the drive (to produce in general, not for that particular track). What I was really wondering about was how many other people have encountered this situation and how often/how long. Thanks for the inspirational words though, much appreciated.

Of course every has an inspiration drop sometimes, or even a complete 'melodical blackout'

I think it's even MORE healthy that you have those, as it gives you the time to look over some things from a different perspective once you get back at it. I think that some producers who churn out a remix or track every week nowadays will eventually have a bigger blackout or quality fall-off (for some of them it's already clearly showing - I won't name anyone though).

Taking a break and getting some time to relax are very important (as counts with everything actually)

u will hit the wall, at the time u make something that is better than what u have made before, alot of times when u make something that is somewhat unique and different, its very often, simple "luck" a lucky moment where everything u do fits straight into the track, the bass, the melody, the effects, the whole mix, is reaching a level never achieved before, making your last track on the top of the pile.

Then u think: "damn, im really good, i have really improved lately, now lets do a new track."
You start on ur new choon, which is going to be more delicate and different, than the last one you made, cause you "think" ur skilled has really improved.

When u start making the new track, u dont get those same unique results as your last one, and you are kinda stuck, so what do you do? either u get a track that sounds too similar to the track before?, u get a track that sounds different, but still not good enough?, or you manage to catch the magical moment, where everything fits like a glove, and the tune sets up to be the best one u`ve made.

and it continues that way, skill in producing is all about knowing HOW to make "that" sound, how to write "that" melody, how to achieve the certain amount of "effects" in your head, KNOWING HOW TO TRANSLATE THE SOUND U WANT FROM THE BRAIN, TO THE TRACK. (i think only experience and time can make u improve on that)

So genereally what im trying to say is that, you shouldnt always look at the results of your track, and judge your own skillz, cause skill and being lucky about a sound/track does not go on side by side.

As one produces, and listens to music etc. you get to learn what sounds to ditch from the mix, how to improve a bad sound, how to judge which sounds does fit together and which doesnt..

i dont know if this makes any sense at all, but i felt like writing it, based on my own experience..

I improved tenfold in the alst year lol

I think just by doing music, hour after hour, not even thinking about getting better, just doing everything you think about, you get better. Of course sometimes you have to sit down, think and say: How the hell do I make this sound or this effect. Just producing constantly, unconsciously, you get better and better, the settings/functions/parameters become more familiar, until you know them by heart, you analyze everything you hear and mix accordingly etc etc...

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle u will hit the wall, at the time u make something that is better than what u have made before, alot of times when u make something that is somewhat unique and different, its very often, simple "luck" a lucky moment where everything u do fits straight into the track, the bass, the melody, the effects, the whole mix, is reaching a level never achieved before, making your last track on the top of the pile. Then u think: "damn, im really good, i have really improved lately, now lets do a new track." You start on ur new choon, which is going to be more delicate and different, than the last one you made, cause you "think" ur skilled has really improved. When u start making the new track, u dont get those same unique results as your last one, and you are kinda stuck, so what do you do? either u get a track that sounds too similar to the track before?, u get a track that sounds different, but still not good enough?, or you manage to catch the magical moment, where everything fits like a glove, and the tune sets up to be the best one u`ve made. and it continues that way, skill in producing is all about knowing HOW to make "that" sound, how to write "that" melody, how to achieve the certain amount of "effects" in your head, KNOWING HOW TO TRANSLATE THE SOUND U WANT FROM THE BRAIN, TO THE TRACK. (i think only experience and time can make u improve on that) So genereally what im trying to say is that, you shouldnt always look at the results of your track, and judge your own skillz, cause skill and being lucky about a sound/track does not go on side by side. As one produces, and listens to music etc. you get to learn what sounds to ditch from the mix, how to improve a bad sound, how to judge which sounds does fit together and which doesnt.. i dont know if this makes any sense at all, but i felt like writing it, based on my own experience..

That is very true man. I got lucky with one tune that ended up getting released and stuff, and since then I've been in a permanent state of producers block.. And it is no doubt because I'm comparing all my new stuff to the one I got lucky with.

In a way it's been good though, because it's forced me to break out of the mould and try new things. So I've been experimenting a lot with workflow, inspiration, techniques etc. and have actually learnt a lot this year, without actually producing many results.

I think the real skill comes in consistency; anyone with enough practice and effort can get a lucky combination and make a great tune - but only the truly skilled people can repeat it.

I'd say I've gotten 10 folds better than my last years production level. Whenever I do a track I usually compare it to the last one, so that drives me to do better and better every time. I hit producers block often and I think its great because when I come back I think I churn out good stuff. As far as production goes, I've been persistence ever since I've started although there was a time when I did this track called Fourteen and personally I thought it was the one of bests and doubted myself if I could do something better.. turns out I'm working on another one that I think is better than Fourteen. It's just a matter of deriving inspiration.. If you feel out of it .. take a break.. don't even care how long it takes. One night you are going to feel "THAT" urge of producing something and I'm pretty sure it'll be some kickass stuff.

Oh I'm pretty sure u know this but make sure you don't stick to only one genre only.. try different stuff.. I myself tried a trip-hop remix of Aphrodite.. (never completed it though).

Technically I'd say I'm making more or less improvement on every new track. But musically it's like Subtle described; Sometimes I'm lucky and everything works together better than I could consciously make them work at that current skill level. Only afterwards (possibly years), I can understand why it worked so well.

One tip based on my experience.

Don't do too much reading/research without equal practice. I found myself subconsciously avoiding practical progression because when I was starting out I'd read and learned so much that my own expectations exceeded my own actual ability. Schoolboy error. So when I'd try and create something I'd know what I wanted but not how to do it. It drained my motivation quickly, and I found myself back at square one.

I've been producing for a couple of years and I generally follow the same pattern regarding skill & inspiration:

I write a song with which I am very satisfied and best represents my current skill level. Then over the next few months I come up with many song ideas that I don't follow through with, and represent the same skill level as the most recent complete project. I also tend to lack the motivation and inspiration required to complete a song.

Then one day, I'll have a flash of inspiration, and begin a song that I feel is more advanced in respect of my ability. For the first time since I completed my previous song, I'll feel truly inspired, and know with certainty that I will complete this song.

Once the song is all done, I feel as though my skill & ability has evolved.

This is the general pattern, though on odd occaisions a song just develops in entirety regardless of what else I may be working on at the time.

If you feel like you've hit a wall or plateau or something along those lines, take a break and look at some titties. Not that this will help you break the block, but it's titties and they're awesome to look at - why do you need a reason? jesus.

I'd say I've improved ALOT in the last year - but most of that could be attributed to discovering TA.

It's hard to say if I've made any progress lately seeing as I've been shifting genres constantly, from trance to breaks, to ambient, to techno, and now psy. Interrestingly enough is that I found out I'm better at producing certain genres that aren't nessessarily what I typically listen to.

quote:

Originally posted by Tech0rz Don't do too much reading/research without equal practice. I found myself subconsciously avoiding practical progression because when I was starting out I'd read and learned so much that my own expectations exceeded my own actual ability. Schoolboy error. So when I'd try and create something I'd know what I wanted but not how to do it. It drained my motivation quickly, and I found myself back at square one.

That's very true, I hadn't even thought about that. I have done a lot of reading lately and found very little of it to be of practical use, and I think that only adds to the frustration.

Guess I've gotta keep in mind that the producers who truly amaze me with their work have generally been producing for 5 years or more. I just wonder if I'm ever going to get the hang of some of the more useful stuff, like FM and granular synthesis. Maybe you don't need to know everything, I guess...

Trevor: I'm always lookin' at titties, but I think it's more of a distraction than an inspiration!

I havn't really improoved on anything. I'm not saying I'm good because I know i'm not . I know my way around the programs, and know how to do things. I just don't know how to make it sound the way I want to.

I'm right now in the middle of a project that is FINALLY sounding good.

In the past month...I'd have to say I've definately improoved on my kicks and percussion. Making the song sound "Full".

With a few of my friends help and thanks to santiago nino for his awesome kick samples

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Trevor: I'm always lookin' at titties, but I think it's more of a distraction than an inspiration!

I don't know man... your music is sounding really good these days - and I know you dig chesticles as much as I do

keep up the fine work!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut That's very true, I hadn't even thought about that. I have done a lot of reading lately and found very little of it to be of practical use, and I think that only adds to the frustration. Guess I've gotta keep in mind that the producers who truly amaze me with their work have generally been producing for 5 years or more. I just wonder if I'm ever going to get the hang of some of the more useful stuff, like FM and granular synthesis. Maybe you don't need to know everything, I guess... Trevor: I'm always lookin' at titties, but I think it's more of a distraction than an inspiration!

Distraction from music = inspiration (especially titttieessss) Believe that.

Now I need to work on a deep house track (deep dish style) called titties!

Yeah, id say ive read quite a bit but my skill level blows cause I really havent put much if any time into anything lately.

and everytime I go back I have some great idea but never can get it how I want. Guess it just comes with practice. sometime ive been avoiding. (partially cause of my slow pc)

Well I produce since on year... and every time I open cubase or reason i get some good progress
BUt the biggest progress I made two months ago when i started to use cubase... I think reason is very limited, but i Love it just to use it as sequencer

quote:

Originally posted by sooper keep up the fine work!

On the music or the titties?

Heh, thanks man. I think I'm picking up again a little bit, taking it slow though. I've been working a lot on atmosphere lately (the subject area, not the plugin), think I've come up with a few ideas... we shall see how well they work when they're all tied together.

Probably I've just been listening to too many of the brilliant producers lately, like BT, Autechre, Shulman, FSOL, etc. trying to get some inspiration, but it does more harm than good because I can't even begin to fathom how they create some of their effects, let alone recreate them or come up with something of equivalent quality. Ah well... maybe I'll start an "atmosphere" thread, haha.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut On the music or the titties? Probably I've just been listening to too many of the brilliant producers lately, like BT, Autechre, Shulman, FSOL, etc. trying to get some inspiration, but it does more harm than good because I can't even begin to fathom how they create some of their effects, let alone recreate them or come up with something of equivalent quality.

word indeed, listening to alot of experienced, talented, skilled people with alot of releases on their hands its not often a good idea, i tend to "think" about certain tracks when im producing, and i try to make the same kind of track, or same kind of parts of the track.. 90% of the times i just close the sequencer and do some other shit instead..

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