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-- Rob Papen Blue 1.1: any good?

Rob Papen Blue 1.1: any good?

I've tried Albino 2 and I'm not impressed. Generally, it seemed weak, despite some decent pad and bass capabilities. In any event, have any of you tried it? Any improvements on Albino?

Hey. Well its a completely different type of synth. Albino is a subtractive synth and Blue is the new FM synth on the block. Compared to FM7, I'm not all that impressed. The FX on it arent quite as good in my opinion. Either way, its still 6 operator FM, which has always been based in the digital realm. In other words, its hard to not make it sound just like every other FM synth out there. Try the demo out and test it yourself but I think you would be happier with FM7.

Cheers,
Zac

Albino 2 is a great synth, don't know what you were trying to do with it...

Blue is a nice synth as well - it's got a brighter sound than Albino in general, and a whole lot more complexity - so if you're disappointed with Albino because you aren't that happy with the presets, don't expect to be blown away by Blue without seriously learning how to use it.

FM7 is probably a more powerful synth soundwise, although the interface on Blue is a lot better designed.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut FM7 is probably a more powerful synth soundwise, although the interface on Blue is a lot better designed.

+1

I should have mentioned this as well. Blue is layed out much more intuitively than FM7 but, at the cost of sound, I would be willing to take the extra step and read through the manual for FM7 . One more pklus for Blue is that it is a lot cheaper. Just some things to think about.

Re: Rob Papen Blue 1.1: any good?

quote:

Originally posted by armanivespucci I've tried Albino 2 and I'm not impressed.

You gotta be kidding me. You have to turn the knobs and stuff to get the sounds you want ! LMFAO ... albino not good, thats like saying bill gates isnt president of microsoft. Albino is a great little soft synth ... oh yea, I forgot to mention, every soft synth isnt going to sound good if your not making impressive music

Actually I don't like the albino either. z3ta is more my thing + various free synths which all rock

yes, as long as you know how to tweak the sounds to fit your mix it won't be a problem soundwise. there is nothing wrong with either albino nor blue. they are both good sounding synths.

Re: Re: Rob Papen Blue 1.1: any good?

quote:

Originally posted by GreenLight You gotta be kidding me. You have to turn the knobs and stuff to get the sounds you want ! LMFAO ... albino not good, thats like saying bill gates isnt president of microsoft. Albino is a great little soft synth ... oh yea, I forgot to mention, every soft synth isnt going to sound good if your not making impressive music

Well, I'm not saying it's a piece of crap. I really only use z3ta, FM7, and Absynth. And, yeah, I realize that you have to turn knobs- my point was that turning knobs in other VSTs produces more powerful sounds. ; D

I have to somewhat agree. I cannot seem to get out powerful sounds from Albino. If I want a powerful sound I normally go to z3ta+ or I set up like 3 instances of Albino or 2 Albinos and a Vanguard or something. I find the Albino to do well with more arp sounds or basslines.

albino isnt really a 'turn some rotaries, get a phat sound out of it' synth. alot of the flexibility is in the mod matrix and programmable arp, if you can be bothered to learn the ins and outs of them. all the envelopes are linear sounding by default (similar in this respect to access' virus range of synths) unless changed in the mod matrix which does sound kind of flat and boring.

but its not like vanguard or anything. you have to program it differently. you cant for example just reach for the filter envelope to add a wub effect to the attack phase of a sound. you have to set up the extent of the wub effect in the mod matrix first, then use the envelope. the upside to this flexibility is that you can more convincingly recreate or build sounds that are not really possible on vanguard, which has fixed curves on its envelopes. on albino, you can get classic minimoogish basses as well as OB basses - both of which have very different filter attack envelope curves. vanguard cant really make either without the physical 'shape' of the sound being wrong. vanguard however, sounds sweeter straight out of the box and based on the presets and its alot easier to use. so those are pluses for reFX.

in this respect, programming albino is alot like programming a virus, except theres about 1/50th of the modulation options and recursive modulation is off the cards. but i guess thats where the price difference actually makes a difference. this is why im a bit gutted about buying it - my virus b has pretty much taken over everything i would normally have used albino for. the arp however is still probably one of the best arpeggiators on any synth. its completely programmable and makes a complete mockery of the virus arp.

Yeah I know the vanguard doesn't really compare to Albino due to it's amazing mod matrix. I mean I've messed around with the mod matrix and tried some sweet things with it, but the only thing I can seem to find a reason for Albino is doing some sort of arp sound or a thumpin' bassline. It seems to me that there are just so many other VST's out there that can give an amazing sawlead or just a sound with power behind it in general. Personally I'm finding myself moving away from the supersaw sound and trying to develop my own type of sound. I'm still trying to find what I'd like. Although I've messed with Camelspace and Albino together and I absolutely loved it! Now that's an unbeatable combo if you want to make a really uplifting breakdown in a song

I gotta agree also. Albino has just never cut it for me. I can get some interesting complex sounds out of it, mainly useful for FX, and evolving pads. However I find the sounds lack depth and really dont come through in a mix all that well without a fair ammount of after processing. And if you need to do that to a synth at the inital stages to get a good sound, I generally find that its not worth it. Compared to z3ta which has the same level of programmability, it just doesnt stand up as well. Plus filters on a synth are a big thing for me, and I find the Albino ones are just lacking.

I admit, I have learned a lot about modular synthesis though since I first used it though. I might dig it out again and see if I can actually get some usable sounds from it. A lot of people swear that its actually very good

quote:

Originally posted by Axolotyl I gotta agree also. Albino has just never cut it for me. I can get some interesting complex sounds out of it, mainly useful for FX, and evolving pads. However I find the sounds lack depth and really dont come through in a mix all that well without a fair ammount of after processing. And if you need to do that to a synth at the inital stages to get a good sound, I generally find that its not worth it. Compared to z3ta which has the same level of programmability, it just doesnt stand up as well. Plus filters on a synth are a big thing for me, and I find the Albino ones are just lacking. I admit, I have learned a lot about modular synthesis though since I first used it though. I might dig it out again and see if I can actually get some usable sounds from it. A lot of people swear that its actually very good

No synth (even hardware) does everything well. Albino's particularly good for pads, arps/chord hits and skippity basslines. It does not excel with leads or "hard" basslines - it was made to have a warm and smooth sound. I use it a *lot* for background sounds as I find it's reasonably easy to get them to sit well in a mix, as opposed to ripping through it. Compare that to z3ta+ or V-Station for example, whose sounds very rarely sit well in a mix - it's hard to use too many at a time from either of those.

To get those brighter, "edgy" sounds you generally need some sort of FM, PM, or effect processing. For example, FM7, Blue, z3ta+, etc... (although z3ta+ is nowhere near as versatile in the FM department as the others)

"No synth (even hardware) does everything well. Albino's particularly good for pads, arps/chord hits and skippity basslines. It does not excel with leads or "hard" basslines - it was made to have a warm and smooth sound. I use it a *lot* for background sounds as I find it's reasonably easy to get them to sit well in a mix, as opposed to ripping through it. Compare that to z3ta+ or V-Station for example, whose sounds very rarely sit well in a mix - it's hard to use too many at a time from either of those."

I agree... BUT: Just use some nice FX (e.g. exciter...) on your Albino channel und you will wonder what it sounds like ;-). Albino is not only for "smooth" sounds.

Yeah, I did notice that it was good for pads and certain basses... I suppose I might not have given it enough time. Although, someone did say that Albino was a subtractive synth. As I understand it, doesn't that automatically limit it compared to a synth based on frequency modulation? I've only read bits on modular synthesis, but am I way off?

quote:

Originally posted by armanivespucci Yeah, I did notice that it was good for pads and certain basses... I suppose I might not have given it enough time. Although, someone did say that Albino was a subtractive synth. As I understand it, doesn't that automatically limit it compared to a synth based on frequency modulation? I've only read bits on modular synthesis, but am I way off?

FM (or rather phase modulation if you want to get real technical and non-patent infringing), is definitely not modular synthesis to get one thing out of the way . Modular synthesis refers to mainly that of older analog synths where there would be physical modules that you could buy and pop in your synth. Say you dont have enough oscillators, with modular synths, you just go buy another one. The drawback is that it requires a steep learning curve because you literally had to wire EVERYTHING up. Presets werent even really an idea at the time. If you found a sound you liked, you better whip out your camera and start taking pictures cause thats your best bet to getting the sound again.

However, as time progressed, synths got simpler and simpler until they were jsut a plain subtractive synth. Oberheim slapped the industry with a new radical idea though. When the Matrix 6r came out, the idea of internal re-routing started. Basicly, it functioned as a standard subtractive analog synth, but if you wanted to rewire it, it was just a couple button pushes away from having an oscillator routed to... the frequency cutoff or something. Newer 'moduler' synths, such as Albino try to grip onto that same idea that the Matrix started but they arent nearly as flexible and definitely not as flexible as an actual moduler synth. Albino does sound great if you run it through enough processing, but then so does every other synth. If you work long enough, you can make music out of white noise static from a TV.

As for Blue. Like I said before, its a standard FM synth. It has a great interface but the FX jsut arent nearly as good as those on FM7. Its cheaper in price and great for the cost. But when you bring up FM sounding more flexible than a subtractive synth, the answer is a bit more complex than a yes or a no. In short, FM can sound pretty mean and bassy and yet still airy and sweet but again, a lot of it is in how you program it. Pretty much with FM, you have a 50/50 chance of ending up with a patch that makes absolutely no sound at all. The time it takes to debug a patch that isnt working can take longer than it did to make it and for a lot of people, its a big turn off. This is why synths such as the DX7 were only popular because of thier great set of presets. FM can be more flexible in its sounds than subtractive synths, but dont ever expect to be able to make a non-digital sounding isntrument with an FM synth. The simple fact of the matter is that FM is different than subtractive synthesis. Both have thier worlds and specific sounds and they tend not to cross a lot because they both have good places in every song they are used in.

Cheers,
Zac

FM = frequency modulation not phase modulation!

but yea, FM synths can generate timbres that arent possible with analogue synths. bell like harmonics and so forth. sometimes if you want a harder, brighter kind of sound its usually from an FM synth. but digital synths never have the warmth and movement that an analogue synth has. for certain things like pads, mixing the two, if done right can net you certain qualities of both - a kind of glassy top end and a warm, bassy low end. if you use something like reason's combinator you can splice bits of different synth parts together and make a composite synth hook that has characteristics of digital and analogue.

i still think albino is a solid synth thats works well as a workhorse synth - its good at doing everything. but like most other synths it has its own characteristic sound. i guess its not really that popular here

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative FM = frequency modulation not phase modulation!

Look dude, I dont really want to argue with you here, but while what youd said is correct, it doesnt have anything to do with what I was saying. The Yamaha DX7, the star 'FM' synth actually uses phase modulation which is similar but different. The reason that Roland and other companies didnt use the term 'FM' is because its incorrect and the ability to create sound through FM is patented. This is why Yamaha stopped making thier OPL onboard soundchips in the late 90s. They got thier ass sued lol. So while youre correct that FM does not mean the same thing as phase modulation, I think you needed to be telling Yamaha that back in the mid 80s when the GX1 came out. I'm sure youre not beleiving me about this so heres the wikipedia article talking about the DX7:

Link

Cheers,
Zac

uhhh ok. this isnt intended to be an arguement and im not sure what gave you that idea. i pretty much agreed with everything else you said, just thought it may help some people to establish what FM actually stands for. for continuity's sake.

It is true, most synths that advertise themselves as FM are actually PM. IMHO that makes it even more important to understand the difference between the two, since one might be inclined to believe they are the same thing due to all of that incorrect terminology being used.

Albino can do just about everything if you actually spend some time with it. I find that it's not so great at creating those cold, harsh, driving sounds, but certainly you can combine it with various effects or other synths (i.e. FM7) to give it some edge.

FM (and PM) synths -can- create a wider variety of sounds than standard subtractive synths. That's almost common sense, actually. What Albino offers are some really unique filters and built-in effects, which is also what makes synths distinctive in the hardware world. Blue doesn't really have that - it's just an ordinary FM synth.

what are the presets like on it? im not normally one for using presets but the ones on albino sucked and in my opinion werent a fair reflection of what you can do with the synth. whereas something like zeta had fabulous presets that encouraged you to really get in there and get dirty.

as far as FM synths go i guess FM7 is blue's direct competitor and that had some pretty awesome presets. but a few months of trying the demo and i found programming it was a pain in the arse...or maybe that was just me. shrugs...i never bought it in the end and have no dedicated FM synth, except for the FM stuff on my virus. im gonna go check out the blue demo on kvr...er if there is one...hopefully.

quote:

Originally posted by Derivative what are the presets like on it?

They're not bad in Blue, but they're kind of all over the place. Presumably Rob wanted to try and show off *everything* the synth could do, and for some people that'll be fine - I like to be able to compare similar patches in order to understand the subtle changes that can be made.

BTW, there was a new version of Albino released very recently (I believe in the past month) with a brand new set of presets, so for those who didn't like the presets on the original, you might want to check that out.

Also, I'm not sure what the "factory" presets are for Albino but I've got about a thousand patches for it lying around if people want more to play with...

I just purchased 'Sytrus' by image line
I'm just starting to learn how to use it.
how does it compare to blue in terms of synthesis capabilities and sound?

Blue is amazing. I think marco v used one of the presets on More Than A Life Away.

I think blue sucks....

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