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-- Is the NDP in bed with the seperatists???
Is the NDP in bed with the seperatists???
They must be since they are about to vote with them along with the conservatives to bring down the government.
Where's the same media spin from last summer when it was just the conservatives going for the kill? Suddenly lefties are involved so everything is ok?
So either the NDP is also in bed with scary seperatists or the media last spring was full of shit.
Yeah thats what i thought........
If there ever were a textbook case for illustration of canadian media bias in canadian politics, this is it.
I am more concerned that Harper will form a minority gov't with coalition support from the Bloc.
Federal parties should NEVER form coalitions with separatists. NEVER!
It is an outrageous embarrassment that co-operation between the two parties has already come as far as it has.
It is starting to look like a vote for the Conservative Party is a vote for seperatisim.
If there are any coalitions to be made it should be liberal-conservative.
I doubt they would form a coalition with the bloc however i am sure that sometimes they will vote together on certain issues such as all parties have done in the past.
I think the difference here is that ALL opposition parties are voting together to bring down the gov't...not just two parties with radically different political philosophies and agendas.
nice try though.
if you want to find fault...then ask Layton why he propped up the Liberals before, but isn't now...despite there being little new info from the Gomery report.
i.e. he was clearly supporting them so long as he got his way on certain issues, but then yanked support when Martin said "no" to further demands. Now, he's saying he can't support them because they're suddenly unfit to lead? lol...just come clean Jack...you weren't being given the power to enact the change you wanted, so you're joining the other parties to bring the Liberals down.
(there's nothing really "wrong" with that...just admit it, that's all).
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| Originally posted by rabbitjoker I am more concerned that Harper will form a minority gov't with coalition support from the Bloc. Federal parties should NEVER form coalitions with separatists. NEVER! It is an outrageous embarrassment that co-operation between the two parties has already come as far as it has. It is starting to look like a vote for the Conservative Party is a vote for seperatisim. |
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| Originally posted by rabbitjoker I am more concerned that Harper will form a minority gov't with coalition support from the Bloc. Federal parties should NEVER form coalitions with separatists. NEVER! It is an outrageous embarrassment that co-operation between the two parties has already come as far as it has. It is starting to look like a vote for the Conservative Party is a vote for seperatisim. |
there are several times in the past when the liberals and the bloc were the only 2 parties supporting certain votes and nobody said boo.
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| Originally posted by malek wow, petty politics. while the Bloc is a separatist party, it is also the party representing the second most important province in this dying federation. The Bloc and the PC are in accord on many subjects except maybe the federalist/separatist part. If the other parties want to get elected in Quebec why don't they offer what Quebekers ask? |
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| Originally posted by malek wow, petty politics. |
The funny thing about Bloc is that it started out as a conglomerate of disgruntled Quebecois. A mixture of guys from all political spectrum.
I think in the next election, the only true winner is going to be Bloc, b/c Quebec will give a lot of Liberal seats to Bloc. Even if conservatives get a minority, one yank from Bloc means another no confidence motion. (Joe Clark scenario anyone?)
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| Originally posted by Jayx1 there are several times in the past when the liberals and the bloc were the only 2 parties supporting certain votes and nobody said boo. |
so after reading your posts you have 3 national parties that don't even bother with Quebec and you still want people in Quebec to vote for them?
from which planet are you guys coming from? this makes no sense.
you guys don't understand the Bloc motives, while at first its a sovergneist party, its still a party most people in Quebec vote for and even by federalists and people who still want to stay in Canada (like most Quebeckers), the reason is simple like I wrote above, there's a total disconnect by national parties and Quebec.
National parties don't bother with Quebec and Quebecois won't bother voting for them.
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| Originally posted by EvilTree Even if conservatives get a minority, one yank from Bloc means another no confidence motion. (Joe Clark scenario anyone?) |
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| Originally posted by malek so after reading your posts you have 3 national parties that don't even bother with Quebec and you still want people in Quebec to vote for them? from which planet are you guys coming from? this makes no sense. you guys don't understand the Bloc motives, while at first its a sovergneist party, its still a party most people in Quebec vote for and even by federalists and people who still want to stay in Canada (like most Quebeckers), the reason is simple like I wrote above, there's a total disconnect by national parties and Quebec. National parties don't bother with Quebec and Quebecois won't bother voting for them. |
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| Originally posted by malek so after reading your posts you have 3 national parties that don't even bother with Quebec and you still want people in Quebec to vote for them? |
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| Originally posted by Moral Hazard Don't kid yourself Malek, there are NO national parties in this country. The Conservatives represent the west, the Liberals represent Ontario and most of the East, the Bloc represents Quebec, and the NDP represents the spoiled urban intellectuals. |
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I completely understand why Quebecois support the Bloc. Honestly, if I lived in Quebec there is a strong chance I would as well.... they are the only party that Quebecois can be assured will put Quebecois interests first. It only makes sense to vote for them. That said, I do not believe that the majority of people who support the Bloc at the ballot box actually support seperation from Canada. This is likely why the Bloc has downplayed the seperatist agenda lately.... every time they bring it up they lose support. |
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I honestly believe that the rest of Canada makes too big of a deal about the Bloc.... sure they want to seperate but it isn't their decision to make..... it's the people of Quebec's. They do not support the Bloc in this and it seems they never will. As time passes the francophone population in Quebec is becoming less and less.... eventually the push for seperation will die because the francophones will no longer have the numbers to make it a possibility.... unless of course they drop the cultural elitism and reach out to the immigrant population for support. |
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| Originally posted by rabbitjoker Actually, no. I didn't imply that at all. To sum up what I said: 1) Federalist/nationalist parties should not co-operate with separatists, ever. 2) If the people of Quebec desire federalist parties to co-operate with Quebec-only political parties then they should start a non-separatist party. 3) Federalist/nationalist voters should NOT support any party that co-operates with separatists. |
Malek, that's my point...
people can point fingers at the so-called biased media...but maybe they should point some fingers at the other federal parties who are unable, despite the scandals, to appeal to Quebec voters.
In recent years, it's been the Liberals or the Bloq...now, thanks to the scandal, it's just the Bloq...why can't (or won't) any other party appeal to Quebec voters??? People can blame the "biased media" all they want...fact remains that the Bloq will rule Quebec for the forseable future and ALL federal parties should share the blame for that, not just the "corrupt Liberals".
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| Originally posted by MarkT Malek, that's my point... people can point fingers at the so-called biased media...but maybe they should point some fingers at the other federal parties who are unable, despite the scandals, to appeal to Quebec voters. In recent years, it's been the Liberals or the Bloq...now, thanks to the scandal, it's just the Bloq...why can't (or won't) any other party appeal to Quebec voters??? People can blame the "biased media" all they want...fact remains that the Bloq will rule Quebec for the forseable future and ALL federal parties should share the blame for that, not just the "corrupt Liberals". |
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| Originally posted by rabbitjoker Call nationalism petty if you wish. Canadians who care about keeping Canada whole will NOT vote for a party that collaborates with separatists nor a gov't that is propped up by separatists. Whether separatists share the viewpoints of conservatives on many issues is irrelevant. The Bloc and PQ's founding objective is to separate Quebec from Canada (the Bloc sets the environment federally to make it possible, the PQ executes it provincially). Here's an idea: if Quebec wants representation in Ottawa - form a Quebec party with no separatists intentions. I don't think any nationalist would have a problem supporting such a party. |
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| Liberals give separatists kiss of life again CHANTAL H�BERT Apr. 15, 2005. 01:00 AM If the Liberal Party of Canada did not exist, the Quebec sovereignty movement might have to invent it. With the sponsorship scandal, the federal Liberals have given the cause of Quebec sovereignty the breath of life for the third time in little more than two decades. It first happened under Pierre Trudeau, when the Constitution was patriated against the will of the Quebec National Assembly. Then Trudeau and Jean Chr�tien led the fight against the Meech Lake Accord. Before the accord foundered, support for sovereignty sat at its lowest level in years. If Meech had passed, few sovereignists could imagine a scenario that would allow for a referendum rematch. The failure of the accord also gave birth to the Bloc Qu�b�cois. For the federal Liberals who had lost francophone Quebec decisively after patriation, that actually came with a silver lining. The advent of the Bloc made it next to impossible for a national alternative to the Liberals to grow strong roots in Quebec. That, in turn, makes it difficult for a party other than the Liberals to secure a majority government nationally. But at least the patriation and the Meech battles were fought on the field of ideas. By allowing the sponsorship scandal to unfold on its watch, the Liberal party has outdone itself for no greater cause, it appears, than its own interest or that of some of its associates. In the days before the scandal broke, sovereignty had many of the features of a spent force. The Parti Qu�b�cois had just registered its lowest score in decades in a provincial election and the Bloc feared its turn was soon to come in the upcoming federal campaign. Instead, it rode the scandal backlash to its best showing since the pre-referendum era. The revelations that have since come to light at the Gomery commission ensure that whenever the next election takes place, the Bloc will improve on that high score. The Liberals have joined the Conservatives and the NDP as non-contenders in francophone Quebec. Such is their predicament that they have fallen to third place, far behind the BQ. In the next campaign, Stephen Harper and Jack Layton will actually find it easier to draft candidates in Quebec than Martin. Very few people want to run for a party that is routinely equated with corruption around the water coolers. Against this backdrop, the Prime Minister is arguing that Harper will be gambling with national unity for his own partisan interest if he defeats Martin's minority government over the sponsorship scandal. But the Bloc is set to dominate Quebec for at least one and maybe two more election cycles. Martin's core argument really is that if voters outside Quebec ever chose to replace the Liberals with the Conservatives, that party's agenda would push Quebecers to bolt from the federation. But if Quebecers' attachment to Canada was so fragile, they would surely have left in the face of the Liberal constitutional moves of the past decades. Indeed, compared to Meech or patriation, the sponsorship scandal does not seriously register on the Richter scale of unity earthquakes. In 1990, Quebecers were so angry over the demise of Meech that they massively wanted to turn their backs on Canada. They clamoured for a referendum. In the case of the sponsorship scandal, it is the Liberal party that they are turning their backs on in disgust. But that feeling has, so far, not translated into an outburst of referendum fever. From Quebec's perspective, if the next federal election is to be a litmus test of anything Canadian, it may be of the capacity of the rest of the country to hold its nose and reward Liberal efforts to smother the political stench of the sponsorship affair with the flag. |
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| Originally posted by malek Personnaly, I wanted to vote NO at the last referndum but I was 17. But if there's another referndum, I might not vote the same if the federation stays the same, and I know many of my immigrant friends who are in the same position as myself. |
^^^ I'd ask the same thing.
There are disgruntled Canadians across the country...Westerners who feel alienated...Atlantic residents who feel abandoned...but their is less talk of separation than a desire for inclusion, fairness, etc. (yes, I know that SOME will point to growing separatist movements elsewhere, but they will accomplish nothing, I'm sure).
Obviously the language issue is a factor...that Canada promotes it's French language and culture anywhere near as much as it does it's English culture is a farce...but so what? Plenty of other nations have more than one language, with one being "dominant".
I agree with the thought that much of the Bloq support has less to do with a desire for separation and more with promotion of Quebecer's interests...but why that must be linked to a separatist agenda is beyond me.
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| Originally posted by MarkT ^^^ I'd ask the same thing. There are disgruntled Canadians across the country...Westerners who feel alienated...Atlantic residents who feel abandoned...but their is less talk of separation than a desire for inclusion, fairness, etc. (yes, I know that SOME will point to growing separatist movements elsewhere, but they will accomplish nothing, I'm sure). Obviously the language issue is a factor...that Canada promotes it's French language and culture anywhere near as much as it does it's English culture is a farce...but so what? Plenty of other nations have more than one language, with one being "dominant". I agree with the thought that much of the Bloq support has less to do with a desire for separation and more with promotion of Quebecer's interests...but why that must be linked to a separatist agenda is beyond me. |
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| Originally posted by rabbitjoker 3) Federalist/nationalist voters should NOT support any party that co-operates with separatists. |
Q: How do you know it's election time?
A: it's the only time the Liberals actually start to govern the country.
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