Mixing. Cross fader or volume - TranceAddict Forums

TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- DJ Booth
-- Mixing. Cross fader or volume

Posted by burns on Jan-03-2002 17:18:

Mixing. Cross fader or volume

How do you mix ? Using crossfader to bring in tune 2, or Corssfader in middle and slowely increase volume ? Share your opinions please.

Posted by Dmatrox on Jan-03-2002 17:20:

I dont use the crossfader at all. I just put it in the middle, and use the channel faders.

Posted by DJ Teknique on Jan-03-2002 17:36:

i don't use the crossfader, i used to mix with it but when i tryed bringing volume up i liked it better

Posted by Narcissus on Jan-03-2002 18:14:

I have tried both and well.. they're both good in their own ways.. of course using cross fader could be a bit harder having to both increase volume, changing the bass ... fade another volume.. my advise it try not to use the crossfader. Also practise a lot and u'll find it really easy to mix tracks or beat match them accurately.. i've been mixing for about 6 months now and to be honest i think i'm still not that good i hardly practice .. so make sure u do a lot of work.. 3 hours a day would be good..

Posted by SoulSupply on Jan-03-2002 21:00:

I agree with the volume controls. the only time to use the crossfader really is for scratch mixing or a really fast mix, which doesnt really happen in trance mixing.

Posted by DJ Darchinova on Jan-05-2002 08:52:

Channel mixing is the easiest.. you have more control over the volume than a crossfader..

Posted by Luke Terry on Jan-05-2002 12:05:

I prefered the volumes on my Stanton RM-3, but I got a Vestax PCV-175 now which has a better X-fader and both tunes are on @ around 80% in the middle, not 100%, so I use both now, its often easier just to use the x-fader so u have a hand free to fiddle with eqs, have a wank, change pitch slightly.

Posted by Tony Morello on Jan-05-2002 16:19:

i used to use the x-fader... then i tried mixing witht he volume controls and felt i had more control over my mixes

Posted by DJ LIQUID on Jan-05-2002 16:35:

I use both + the EQs......gives u more control & makes ur mixes sound top notch

Posted by djskylz on Jan-05-2002 18:19:

I had a mixer with a crossfader, but i never used it. Now i have a mixer without a crossfader, and a don't miss it (yes, you can say i use the channel faders )

Posted by Dj Thy on Jan-05-2002 19:40:

Personally I use the channel faders for mixing.
You see, no two mixes are the same. Depends on several things : the bassline, the kick, how crowded it sounds, ...
With a xfader, the volume "ratio's" between the two channels are always the same according to the position of the xfader knob (like for example the xfader knob is 3/4 towards ch1, the ratio will be 80% ch1, 20% ch2). But sometimes to make it sound better you'll want to set those "ratio's" yourself. Something that you can do with the channel faders. That's why i find you got more control over the mix with your channel faders. That's the same reason people that like to do long long mixes prefer rotary knobs over line faders.
Don't get me wrong, it's perfectly possible to make smooth mixes with the xfader only, but I have a better feel using the channel faders.

Posted by itsamemario on Jan-05-2002 21:04:

why is everybody so hyped up about bringing the volume on track 2 so sloooowly up... just slam it there guys... sounds better...

Posted by Eugene on Jan-05-2002 22:01:

OK, it sounds like everybody here prefers volume mixing, rather than crossfading...

So how do you go about it?
Set the crossfader in the middle always, and then, for Song 2, gradually turn up the EQ's to the maximum?

It seems that if you're not using the fader, then the eq's have to go from 0 to 100% always, as well as maybe "Gain".

Posted by Dj Thy on Jan-05-2002 22:38:

Well not exactly. The xfader stays in the middle.
Let's say Ch1 has the tune playing live, and Ch2 has the tune you wanna mix in.
The fader of Ch1 is open (100%), ch2 is closed. When you wanna mix in the new tune, you open the fader of ch2 (slam it in or progressively, depends what kind of mix you wanna perform), but not completely. Let's say 80% (I know I sound technical, you shouldn't do it precise like this, but by feeling/hearing, I'm just talking in percents to make things clear).
Then you gradually move ch2 up to 100% while you decrease ch1 to 80% (or sth in that range). This is to keep a constant volume. Then you are free to completely decrease ch1 fader like you want (rythmically on the hihats, or on every 8th beat, ...).
While you do all this, you tweak the Eq's of both channels to keep the sound as constant as possible.
Like I said this sounds very technical and you shouldn't do it "by numbers", but by hearing. Keep the mix as flowing and constant as possible.

As for the gain, that's a way to control the input, not the output. I know some dj's mix with gains, but I wouldn't recommend that (they are not designed for that).
Use them to level out different recording levels. You might have noticed that some records are recorded louder than others. Well use the gains to compensate that.

As for the slow vs fast mixes, that really depends on the music you're playing and your mixing style. Some styles are better for long mixes (progressive and such), as others really go well with fast cuts and slams (techno, hiphop).
My advice is try to vary as lot as you can. Always mixing tunes the same way is boring in the long run.
The way you mix tunes can help you tell your "story". You should take the crowd to a journey. Start building up with long, steady mixes, and when you reach the climax, it's ok to slam the hell out of it! Then at the end you can slowly go longer and longer. That and the choice of your tunes is the best way to control the power of your sets.

Posted by Tony Morello on Jan-05-2002 23:42:

yea... EQ work owns me
i'm always phucking around with the EQs

Posted by oDrori on Jan-05-2002 23:49:

quote:
Originally posted by Dj Thy

As for the gain, that's a way to control the input, not the output. I know some dj's mix with gains, but I wouldn't recommend that (they are not designed for that).
Use them to level out different recording levels. You might have noticed that some records are recorded louder than others. Well use the gains to compensate that.

Agreed, gain's not for mixing

I find crossfaders useless but that's just me and I'm a beginner so anyone who finds his own tricks with god bless him

As for mixing method, I mix almost only Trance and most club mixes / original mixes etc. have about 1 min. of intro with nothing but percussion and maybe some bassline so I ussualy put it straight on full volume (After gain), turn the Low all the way down to get rid of the kicks n bassline and let them mix toghether, it sound great when the HH and claps of a track are added to the last minutes of the one before... then at a point you either wait for a track or a track's kicks to end or you just slam the low of it all the way down for a beat or two and slam the other one up...

Posted by Eugene on Jan-05-2002 23:55:

OK, thanks for that description, now let me see if I got this right.

When you talk about Ch1 volume, you mean the line volume control, right? That vertical slider, right?

So, what you're saying is, the "normal" position - when a given song is playing at full, by itself - is when its line volume slider is at 100% (so for the "silent" song it would be 0), and you use the "Gain" control to account for different vinyl volumes, correct?

If that's the case, then what are the "normal" positions for the EQ controls, before you fiddle with them in the transitions? Should they all be at 50%?

Also, if I understand correctly, - the main mixing (aside from all the EQ knobs) is done by bringing Ch1 line down and Ch2 line up?

Thanks

Posted by Tony Morello on Jan-06-2002 00:09:

Posted by gibbo on Jan-06-2002 00:26:

thsi is just bollocks to ask this coz theres lots of factors which affect which is better depending on the mixer for instance i usually use the volume faders now coz the crossfader is sharp and shitty and is not gradual at all but i used to use the crossfader on my old mixer coz it was good and the volume faders were shit so it depends on the quality of the two different parts on the mixer if you spend a fortune i suppose you'll get good in all areas but i'd still use a combination of both it also can depend on the track how sharp your gonna bring the other tune in and so on and so forth........... so this is just bollox.

Posted by Dj Thy on Jan-07-2002 16:32:

quote:
Originally posted by Eugene
OK, thanks for that description, now let me see if I got this right.

When you talk about Ch1 volume, you mean the line volume control, right? That vertical slider, right?

So, what you're saying is, the "normal" position - when a given song is playing at full, by itself - is when its line volume slider is at 100% (so for the "silent" song it would be 0), and you use the "Gain" control to account for different vinyl volumes, correct?

If that's the case, then what are the "normal" positions for the EQ controls, before you fiddle with them in the transitions? Should they all be at 50%?

Also, if I understand correctly, - the main mixing (aside from all the EQ knobs) is done by bringing Ch1 line down and Ch2 line up?

Thanks

Yeah, basically it's like this. Can't tell you about the EQ positions though, that completely depends on both tunes you'll mix, and the type of mix you wanna do (the smooth "I-don't-know-there's-a-new-tune" mix or the "slam-in-ur-face" mix).
For example if you want to do a smooth mix, listen to both tunes carefully. First listen to the tune playing live, then to the one you are cueing. If the cued tune has more present hihats for example, you'll know that you'll have to have the hi's decreased on that one and so on. The goal is to keep the loudness and vibe going.
I own a mixer myself that has pre-EQ cueing, meaning you don't hear the effect of the EQ in your phones. It's weird at first, but when learning to work with that you'll notice easier what you must tweak and what not.
Most dj's I know work that way (switching the line faders positions), while switching the EQ knobs positions (starting with decreased EQ on the incoming tune, increasing it smoothly while decreasing the outgoing tune's EQ).
But always working the same way gets boring very fast. So my advice again use your ears to make it sound how you want... And use variation. Basically that's what gibbo17 is saying too, and I agree on that part, but I won't say it's useless.
I've seen a lot of beginning dj's (that don't use the xfader) just slamming the new tune in without doing any EQing or special "continuity" movements, just slam both faders at 100%. Maybe you noticed you'll have a major increase in sound volume that way. And that's not the definition I give to smooth mixing.

Trust your ears, that's all I have to say.

Posted by Viceroy on Jan-08-2002 12:39:

quote:
Originally posted by Dmatrox
I dont use the crossfader at all. I just put it in the middle, and use the channel faders.

Same here.

Peace,
Steve