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bpm counters ~ to use or not to use

do any of u guys use bpm counters? i was thinking about getting one, but they are pretty expensive and i was wondering if there is even a real need for them... does it make beatmatching any easier?

thanks
bisco

ps. if i were to get a bpm counter, which brand/model would you reccomend?

Dont waist your money.
Do not use beat counters your only killing your ability to beatmatch.
Simple as that.

yeah, what 00 tommy said.... pretty pointless.

All decent cdjs have them built in, the pio mixers (among others) and i know fs2 has it and serate will be getting it.. but in all fairness i its nto worth ur time or money. learn yourself, better in the long run. .specially with vinyl.

ok good, it will save me some money...

beatmatching is harder than i thought it would be... i think its tricky using the pitch faders to keep them in sync. starting in sync isnt hard at all, but it think it's hard to decide whether to increase or decrease pitch and which track to adjust... especially since i havent gotten my headphones yet (they are on the way (sony 700 somethings ~ the good ones). hopefully that will make it easier...

hope the headphones help

bisco

Its called practice. Don't discount its effects.

not to use

most of which i know don't even work well... besides that, fine adjustment is required in every case, so you better learn it without BPM counters...

Yup, they are a false economy.

Not accurate enough and it can screw you totally if you end up playing a venue that doesn't have them.

It is much better to learn how to do it with your ear and you brain.

The companies that make them are basically cashing in on the desire of new DJs to learn faster.

The only time I would ever use one is in the studio if I am using a vocal sample. Would first get the BPM of the original track and then match it to the vocal. Saves a bit of time.

When I'm playing out I will use them (when available) just to see how fast the guy before me is playing just to make a mental note but it's no biggie if they aren't there.
Also if a bigger DJ is on after me then I can sometimes use it to keep in mind how the speed of my set will impact his i.e. to ensure that I don't exceed the bpm's that he will play at. As I said though, I can do this without the use of BPM counters but when they are there that's what I do.

Cheers
Nem

They do come in handy when your doing other tricks like scratchin or sampling just to give you a genral idea of the bpm so you can beatmatch faster but the fine tuning is up to you. Some people use em some not. i pers. don't cause i practised and i know my records well enough

I think these things are a waste of money. They are never spot on as most tracks will always have a very slight bpm flutter in them

Don't waste your cash on this... you probably would end up wishing you had bought something else

knowing the bpm will not help you at all. the fluctuations in a lot of the records you will try to mix together is less than 1 bpm, and even a half a bpm of difference will turn into disaster very quickly.

the only thing you need a bpm counter for is for organizing your records for harmonic mixing. or like some of the other guys said, concrete numbers for objectivity.

you don't learn to run a marathon by using crutches, do you?

end

you can just use a beatcounter from your pc (for free ), get a rough bpm of your records and write it on the cover of each tune, u dont need to use it for beatmatching, but you can save time by not attempting to mix records with a big bpm difference, it can even help when you want to plan your set beforhand, you know, put some slower tracks in the beginning and increase the tempo progressively to get to the desired bpm


not an expert in this matter but it's just a suggestion

I started spinning about 6 or 7 years ago when I met a friend of mine who spun and I was instantly hooked. It took me FOREVER to even figure out the concept of beatmatching. I tried a ton of stupid counters and charts and tools, etc to help you mix better and nothing ever worked.

I would always tell him "dude i tried, i tried that, i tried this, i tried that"

He gave me the best advice I've ever received in my life (well as far as DJ'ing goes) one day, and it still sticks in my head whenever I'm doing anything.

"Just use your ears"

Four simple words, but it's true. Just keep spinning, one day, out of no where, (might take years) it'll just click, you'll be fucking around in your room, spinning some records, and all of a sudden, you'll just get it. It's weird, but that's just what happens.

Even now when I'm spinning out someplace, or mixing a cd, or whatever, and I get nervous, or out of the zone for a minute, and freak out, and i'm like oh shit oh shit, gonna trainwreck, gonna trainwreck, and I start watching the lights on the mixer, taking my headphones off, checking the bpm's, freaking out, I just close my eyes and hear his voice in my head telling me to just use my ears... and it works, everytime.

Oh one more thing... I don't know what your level of DJ'ing is... but seriously, try getting a little buzzed then spinning. Not DRUNK, or you'll suck, but have a drink or two, just so you feel nice, and give it a shot, you're more relaxed, your mind tends to get lost in the music more. I'm always better when I'm a lil buzzed

yeah, one day it will all of a sudden just click, then it's a matter of fine tuning your skills

Yeah, I used to use (Well, I still do a bit) the BPM counters on my CDJ's as a rough guide, but in general they're FAR too inaccurate, and in a lot of ways I think hurt my ability to beatmatch properly as I'd learned to on vinyl... This was actually the only downside I felt when I traded in the Techs for CDJ's...

quote:

Originally posted by RoBDaWG Oh one more thing... I don't know what your level of DJ'ing is... but seriously, try getting a little buzzed then spinning. Not DRUNK, or you'll suck, but have a drink or two, just so you feel nice, and give it a shot, you're more relaxed, your mind tends to get lost in the music more. I'm always better when I'm a lil buzzed

I have to disagree, here. In my experience people who drink just a little bit of alcohol to "get in the mood" merely think they're doing better. You can definitely hear a loss of fine control when people do this.

Probably better with a bit of the old uncle smokey, if you enjoy that sort of thing...

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Ikronix I have to disagree, here. In my experience people who drink just a little bit of alcohol to "get in the mood" merely think they're doing better. You can definitely hear a loss of fine control when people do this.

Ah I'm sure it depends on the person ya know, for me it helps, I'm sure for some people it probably impairs them

quote:

Originally posted by RoBDaWG I started spinning about 6 or 7 years ago when I met a friend of mine who spun and I was instantly hooked. It took me FOREVER to even figure out the concept of beatmatching. I tried a ton of stupid counters and charts and tools, etc to help you mix better and nothing ever worked. I would always tell him "dude i tried, i tried that, i tried this, i tried that" He gave me the best advice I've ever received in my life (well as far as DJ'ing goes) one day, and it still sticks in my head whenever I'm doing anything. "Just use your ears" Four simple words, but it's true. Just keep spinning, one day, out of no where, (might take years) it'll just click, you'll be fucking around in your room, spinning some records, and all of a sudden, you'll just get it. It's weird, but that's just what happens. Even now when I'm spinning out someplace, or mixing a cd, or whatever, and I get nervous, or out of the zone for a minute, and freak out, and i'm like oh shit oh shit, gonna trainwreck, gonna trainwreck, and I start watching the lights on the mixer, taking my headphones off, checking the bpm's, freaking out, I just close my eyes and hear his voice in my head telling me to just use my ears... and it works, everytime.

lol the last part could be a jean claude van damme movie.
good advice though.

quote:

Originally posted by RoBDaWG Ah I'm sure it depends on the person ya know, for me it helps, I'm sure for some people it probably impairs them

works for me too
i'm not talking about getting sloshed while playing, but having a couple before going on/while playing to loosen up and get feeling the music

quote:

Originally posted by DJ_Ikronix I have to disagree, here. In my experience people who drink just a little bit of alcohol to "get in the mood" merely think they're doing better. You can definitely hear a loss of fine control when people do this.

Hehe. Funny you should say this..

When recording my November Promo (Click Sig) I had a goood couple of drinks before recording it and if you listen, it came out fairly well.. i put most of the same tracks together earlier in the day with little success.. It all clicked.


That being said.. when i play out, i dont drink at all.. Tony knows this, haha, i got fucked up after the gig! hahaha!

quote:

Originally posted by dinoXpress Hehe. Funny you should say this.. When recording my November Promo (Click Sig) I had a goood couple of drinks before recording it and if you listen, it came out fairly well.. i put most of the same tracks together earlier in the day with little success.. It all clicked. That being said.. when i play out, i dont drink at all.. Tony knows this, haha, i got fucked up after the gig! hahaha!

bwhahaha

that night was a gooder... i think... i vaguely remember smoking a joint in the parking lot after you played

Lovely

quote:

Originally posted by discobiscuit ok good, it will save me some money... beatmatching is harder than i thought it would be... i think its tricky using the pitch faders to keep them in sync. starting in sync isnt hard at all, but it think it's hard to decide whether to increase or decrease pitch and which track to adjust... especially since i havent gotten my headphones yet (they are on the way (sony 700 somethings ~ the good ones). hopefully that will make it easier... hope the headphones help bisco

I feel the need to mention this post as nobody else has as of yet. Headphones aren't necessary to beatmatching, and won't necessarily help you - really they're just used so that the audience doesn't hear the two tracks out of sync when you're matching them up. I learned without headphones, just turned up two channels and had a go at it.

As far as beatmatching, you have to be able to hear small details in the overall mix to effectively match, especially when it comes to fine-tuning the phrase differences between the two.

I'll let you know how I learned, was able to match most of my records after 3 days. Of course it took 2-3 mins to match them, but it worked, and now it only takes about 20-30 secs.


Play record 1. Now play record two. Listen to the chaos. If it's the same record, change the pitch on one of them. If it's two different records, chances are that the recorded bpms of each record are already different, so don't change the pitch. Now listen to the chaos. As time goes on, you should notice that they eventually start to come together until they're completely matched, if only for a bar or two. Then they start to drift apart again. Keep listening until you can hear when they're drifting apart and when they're coming together. What I do is listen for I think of as a chaos differential - more chaotic or more ordered, with two records being completely ordered if they're beatmatched.

Once you can hear the chaos/order differentials, or rather when the records are getting closer to being matched and further from being matched, you can start matching them. Play one record. Now play the other. Try pitching one up for a split second or two, then bring the pitch back to where it was. Are the records closer together? Further apart? If they're closer together, keep pitching it up - you're going in the right direction. If they're farther apart, you're going in the wrong direction, and you need to pitch it down. Of course you have to adjust the pitch slider to a new position if you want them to get matched for more than one or two bars.

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