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Legalize the weed, yo!

Medicinally speaking, the occassional puff makes me happy. It's good for the humors.

Come on, Bushie! Enough with the current useless policy.

Source

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December 6, 2005 Smoke Gets in Your Politics By Debra Saunders This week's Time Magazine basically lists marijuana as a medicine. Now, can Washington and President Bush finally wake up and change federal policy so that states can allow sick people to use medical marijuana if they need it? This is what Time reports in an article on the year in medicine: "Research into the analgesic and anti-inflammatory effects of cannabis continued to bolster the case for the medicinal use of marijuana, making the 'patient pot laws' that have passed in 11 states seem less like a social movement than a legitimate medical trend." The article then cites studies that found that cannabis lessened the pain and suppressed rheumatoid arthritis and "can reduce inflammation in the brain and may protect it from the cognitive decline associated with Alzheimer's disease." "If politicians would be a little bit more willing to listen to the voters, they'd find there is more support than they think," noted Tommy McDonald of the anti-drug war Drug Policy Alliance. No lie. AARP polled Americans over 45 in 2004 and found that 72 percent support allowing patients to use medical marijuana if a physician recommends it. That number can only grow, as people see family members and friends benefit from the drug. A late friend of mine used marijuana to increase her appetite and ease her discomfort as she fought cancer. Yes, she tried Marinol, the legal pill-form equivalent to marijuana, but it didn't do the job. When President Bush first ran for the White House and he was asked about medical-marijuana laws, The Washington Post reported, Bush answered (as only Bush answers), "I believe each state can choose that decision as they so choose." In office, alas, Bush has taken a hard-line approach. His administration has challenged states that voted to legalize medical marijuana. White House Drug Czar John Walters contends that medical-marijuana is a cynical gambit used by people who want to legalize all drugs and are hiding behind sick people to advance a pro-drug agenda. Some San Francisco politicians, if reluctantly, have come to a similar conclusion, as they have had to deal with the crime that hangs like smoke around some pot clubs. City legislators have proposed limits -- an ounce per visit instead of a pound -- to cut down on abuses. I know that folks at the drug czar's office bristle at the notion that they lack compassion for sick people. But it's true. They may mean well, but if they really cared about people who are suffering, they would help them get what they need. Bush could borrow a page from the Special City and tell the Department of Justice and other federal agencies to back off if states follow criteria designed to separate the sick from the stoned. But the Bushies can't do that because they won't recognize marijuana's medical use. The Oakland-based Americans for Safe Access has filed a lawsuit against the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services to stop the agency from claiming that marijuana has no medical use. The goal, according to a press release, is to force the government to "publicly admit that marijuana is now effectively used for medical treatment, clearing the way for medical reclassification that would eventually allow doctors to prescribe it to their patients nationwide." Meanwhile, Bush should act. He can start by telling federal agencies not to enforce drug laws against medical marijuana users in states that have legalized its use and employ specific safeguards to prevent abuse. Then he should call for the removal of marijuana from the Controlled Substances Act's Schedule 1 table -- reserved for such serious drugs as heroin, with no medical use -- and put marijuana into a category that allows doctors to prescribe it. Not prosecuting sick people would save the federal government money -- by cutting legal and penal expenses. It would leave medical decision-making to doctors. And it would uphold states' rights. Another plus: It would show that Bush still can confound his critics. It would be like his 2003 Thanksgiving in Baghdad -- but Christmas for those who are sick or in pain.

Too much reefer madness down there Shakka

But best of luck...

Not much of a fan of it myself, though I have had my fair share in the years past (esp. college - fuck that was silly...).

Even though I'm not a fan, however, I do support its use and further research. The more evidence it has to support its use, the more I welcome it for medicinal purposes. And the occasional toke is kinda funny too.

We waste a lot of money fighting this drug war. In many cases, it seems like more of a war against avid video gamers and music lovers!

though i smoke pot myself i wouldn't want it legalized. mainly because our culture ALWAYS abuses what's given. And the last thing I want is my bus driver high lol.

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Originally posted by Lepanto though i smoke pot myself i wouldn't want it legalized. mainly because our culture ALWAYS abuses what's given. And the last thing I want is my bus driver high lol.

That's certainly a valid point. I wouldn't want it outright legalized and have it out there available like chewing gum. It would certainly need to be a regulated product like tobacco or alcohol, with restrictions since it certainly impairs a person's ability to "operate heavy machinery"--to use a common term from the label of other drugs.

'08

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Originally posted by Lepanto though i smoke pot myself i wouldn't want it legalized. mainly because our culture ALWAYS abuses what's given. And the last thing I want is my bus driver high lol.

So why don't you criminalize alcohol too? We all know how great it worked last time!!!

Clearly strict policies doesnt help at all.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew So why don't you criminalize alcohol too? We all know how great it worked last time!!! Clearly strict policies doesnt help at all.

yup. everyone walks around here drunk

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Originally posted by Shakka That's certainly a valid point. I wouldn't want it outright legalized and have it out there available like chewing gum. It would certainly need to be a regulated product like tobacco or alcohol, with restrictions since it certainly impairs a person's ability to "operate heavy machinery"--to use a common term from the label of other drugs.

That's the biggest problem. I was writing about this for my thesis paper and then my prof made an example out of it in class and we talked about it for 2 hours in class. First, off how would you control it? Let's suppose SOMEHOW, they're able to shift it from the hands of dealers and suppliers to deli/grocery stores/supermarkets and cafes. How do you determine legal age? Furthermore, alcohol isn't served or sold before 12. So perhaps weed won't be sold untill 6 P.M. (average time of people getting off work, don't you agree?). So, now a person would be buying up large ammounts to store at home like many do with alcohol, so that they could indulge in it without having to go to to the liquor store whenever they need some. Now, you have little kids around who might be chipping off a bit. Giving it to their friends, just like with aclohol, alot of times. Yada Yada Yada...

Obviously, there are a million things that could happen and I don't have the time to list or describe them all right now. But, not a good idea.

I think there is to big an assumption here that if in fact it is legalized, then everyone is going to walk around stoned. Switzerland and the Netherlands both enjoy lower rates of adolescent marijuana use than the U.S. Such a system would reduce many of the problems presently associated with the prohibition of marijuana, including the crime, corruption and violence associated with a "black market." It's my personal opinion that it should be treated exactly the same as alcohol, i.e. 21 and over, and that all of the alcohol laws should apply to pot, DWI minor in possetion heavy machinary etc.

Sheit I'll continue this later, I'm late for psychology

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Originally posted by priveye03 I think there is to big an assumption here that if in fact it is legalized, then everyone is going to walk around stoned. Switzerland and the Netherlands both enjoy lower rates of adolescent marijuana use than the U.S. Such a system would reduce many of the problems presently associated with the prohibition of marijuana, including the crime, corruption and violence associated with a "black market." It's my personal opinion that it should be treated exactly the same as alcohol, i.e. 21 and over, and that all of the alcohol laws should apply to pot, DWI minor in possetion heavy machinary etc. Sheit I'll continue this later, I'm late for psychology

you do realize we're talking about a DIFFERENT country and a DIFFERENT culure and different MINDSET. also, the "black market" deals little with marijuana, and if you're refering to ghettos and shit then you're even more off.

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Originally posted by priveye03 I think there is to big an assumption here that if in fact it is legalized, then everyone is going to walk around stoned. Switzerland and the Netherlands both enjoy lower rates of adolescent marijuana use than the U.S. Such a system would reduce many of the problems presently associated with the prohibition of marijuana, including the crime, corruption and violence associated with a "black market." It's my personal opinion that it should be treated exactly the same as alcohol, i.e. 21 and over, and that all of the alcohol laws should apply to pot, DWI minor in possetion heavy machinary etc. Sheit I'll continue this later, I'm late for psychology

Amsterdam is the land of the hedonists. No biggie if that's your thang.

From wikipedia -

The black market is the sector of economic activity involving illegal economic dealings, typically the buying and selling of merchandise illegally. The goods may be themselves illegal, such as the sale of prohibited weapons or the illegal drug trade; the merchandise may be stolen; or the merchandise may be otherwise legal goods sold illicitly to avoid tax payments or licensing requirements, such as cigarettes or unregistered firearms. It is so called because "black economy" or "black market" affairs are conducted outside the law, and so are necessarily conducted "in the dark", out of the sight of the law.

And if we look at history, when Prohibition ended, only half the breweries that had previously existed reopened. Many small breweries were out of business for good. And the lowered cost of producing alcohol legally increased competition, pushing the alcohol out of the organized crimes hand and lowering their profits to almost nothing, forcing them to move onto businesses such as the illegal drug trade.

So do I think it could be regulated? Yes, I honostly do. You could put restrictions on exactly how much marijuana could be bought. Also age limit restrictions by way of checking a persons drivers license.
And if you can prove to me that it would have an adverse effect on American society then it did on Switzerland and the Netherlands, then please do so. But those 2 cultures are the best examples that we have to go off of and I restate again, both countries have lower rates of adolescent marijuana use then the U.S.

And I think to often people associate the entire culture of the Netherlands with that of Amsterdam. Amsterdam is Amsterdam, not the entire country. And maybe it is my thang

Back to studying for finals.

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Originally posted by priveye03 So do I think it could be regulated? Yes, I honostly do. You could put restrictions on exactly how much marijuana could be bought. Also age limit restrictions by way of checking a persons drivers license. And if you can prove to me that it would have an adverse effect on American society then it did on Switzerland and the Netherlands, then please do so. But those 2 cultures are the best examples that we have to go off of and I restate again, both countries have lower rates of adolescent marijuana use then the U.S.

And let's not kid ourselves--it ain't exactly cheap! It's not like it suddenly gets legalized, everyone and their mother go out and buy a dime bag and start having an occasional puff. That shit costs money. Hell, my beer habit costs me enough already!

At least with some sort of government regulation, you theoretically get a much cheaper product that is generally much higher in quality. But even though the price of the stuff would go down, it sure as hell likely wouldn't be like a chewing gum habit. At the same time, it would no doubt take significant and substantial downside to the prospects of dealing in the black market. In a more lax world, if you really wanted to maintain premium pricing (from an independent dealer standpoint), you could label yourself as a "premium brand" grower and incorporate and get government approval of your product. Then just market yourself as such and sell for a higher price. The laws of supply and demand will tell you how good your product is. And if the government gets a bigger chunk in the form of tax revenue, they very well could be happy.

But lets not kid ourselves. It's still not cheap and it's not likely that the whole nation would become pot smokers overnight. One could even argue that the sudden ease of availability might cause some people to indulge less given that it is constantly available to them. And maybe not.

wait...you're using ...wykopedia as an exmaple of the underworld...ok then

out of all of that you got

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wait...you're using ...wykopedia as an exmaple of the underworld...ok then

I like it

How about from the dictionary:
1. The illegal business of buying or selling goods or currency in violation of restrictions such as price controls or rationing.
2. A place where these illegal operations are carried on.

That and shakka, I should smoke you out sometime

Oh and just randomly did anyone besides me see this article? http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurology/GeneralNeurology/tb/1934
Good read.

I consider myself a "man of science and medicine," (whatever that means), and my thought process is as follows.

If we find no problem with people drinking, smoking tobacco, taking over the counter medicines or presecription drugs for that matter, all in the hopes of either alleviating pain or temporarily altering reality, then why do we have a problem if someone uses a plant to do the same thing that is argueably safer than any of the substances mentioned before?

The key to all of this is moderation, but the people who are abusing marijuana now will do so if legal or not, and I don't see a huge population of potential abusers out there waiting for legalization. After all, who argueably are the worst abusers of alcohol in the United States? Underage drinkers, who alcohol is illegal for.

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Originally posted by priveye03 out of all of that you got I like it How about from the dictionary: 1. The illegal business of buying or selling goods or currency in violation of restrictions such as price controls or rationing. 2. A place where these illegal operations are carried on. That and shakka, I should smoke you out sometime Oh and just randomly did anyone besides me see this article? http://www.medpagetoday.com/Neurolo...urology/tb/1934 Good read.

hehe i never meant any offense, i just wanted to point out that the black market isn't that dependant on weed.

Another problem i heard with legalizing a popular drug such as weed is the fact that other drugs will become cheaper. what do you guys think about that?

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Originally posted by NeoPhono The key to all of this is moderation...

+1 One of the main pillars of my personal philosophy.

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Originally posted by Shakka +1 One of the main pillars of my personal philosophy.

I don't trust anyone that doesn't abuse alcohol.

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Originally posted by Lepanto yup. everyone walks around here drunk

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Originally posted by occrider I don't trust anyone that doesn't abuse alcohol.

Lol. I am a moderate abuser. I get hangovers just like the next moderate abuser! Some worse than others depending on my poison of choice the night before. Wine and champagne are killers. The only cure for a hangover of that magnitude is 2 Advil liquigels, 1 full strength Coke, a glass of water and possibly a nice fat bowl...natures pain medicine. A greasy spoon breakfast never hurts either, provided the stomach can take it.

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Originally posted by Shakka Lol. I am a moderate abuser. I get hangovers just like the next moderate abuser! Some worse than others depending on my poison of choice the night before. Wine and champagne are killers. The only cure for a hangover of that magnitude is 2 Advil liquigels, 1 full strength Coke, a glass of water and possibly a nice fat bowl...natures pain medicine. A greasy spoon breakfast never hurts either, provided the stomach can take it.

Proof that there is an intelligent designer:

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/...er.damage.reut/

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Originally posted by Lepanto hehe i never meant any offense, i just wanted to point out that the black market isn't that dependant on weed. Another problem i heard with legalizing a popular drug such as weed is the fact that other drugs will become cheaper. what do you guys think about that?

No offense taken =P. I think it is definately possible that the price would drop, but I think since a lot of the income associated with marijuana that the organizations selling (time out there is a girl orgasming in the song I'm listening to and I can't type....ok there we go) such illicit drugs would be cut out, one would think that they would raise, not lower, the prices of the "hard drugs," in order to make up for lost profits. Just a possibility. Plus a couple studies I have read said that rates of hard drug use in 'decriminalized' states actually were lower then those of non-decriminalized states. So one would think, lower demand + drop in profits for the organizations would lead to an increased price.

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