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Toronto Cracking Down On Nightclubs Yet Again

Just what we need. More over regulation. I suggest that the condo owners that live in the entertainment district move if they dont like the noise. After all it was the clubs that made that area vibrant. Metal detectors wont do anything and this new ratio will just increase your cover charges. Security is already decent at most clubs and id argue most of the time its at or beyonf 1 to 100. The noise thing is what pisses me off the most though. Typical Canadian thinking. Move in next to a business and then complain until you force it to close.

Pretty soon mcguinty will give the city new powers of taxation and Toronto has already said it plans to add extra tax to bar alcohol and entertainment fees. That means higher drink prices and cover for everyone.

And people ask me why they should care if they vote or not...

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Owners brace for crackdown on clubland New rules aim to curb noise and violence, increase security at venues By JERED STUFFCO Saturday, December 3, 2005 Toronto nightclub owners are bracing for a massive hangover as city hall prepares to pass a sweeping set of new regulations that will force them to turn down their slamming sound systems, install metal detectors and hire more security guards. Councillor Olivia Chow told The Globe and Mail yesterday that the rules, outlined in a report written by senior staff from the municipal licensing and standards department, will pass next week and be instituted immediately. "This report is long overdue," said Ms. Chow, who, until she resigned this week to pursue federal politics, was the councillor for the ward that includes the entertainment district.However, nightclub owners are raising alarms over some of the new guidelines. Charles Khabouth, owner of massive nightclubs that include Guvernment, This Is London and Ultra, said some of the recommendations "don't make sense." In particular, he said, implementing metal detectors is a waste of time unless staff are properly trained. "I can take you to two places in this city that have them, and you can go in and out and the thing is buzzing all day and all night -- people don't pay attention to it." Other recommendations in the report stipulate that club owners maintain two security guards for every 100 partiers, acquire $2-million of liability insurance for personal injuries and install trash containers for cigarette butts and other club garbage such as laminated flyers. The report, which will also force some clubs to improve sound-deafening insulation, was commissioned after three motions were introduced at city hall to address growing concerns about noise, fights and drunkenness. Councillor Kyle Rae supported most of the new regulations, but said the security-to-patron ratio should be "nuanced" for slower club nights. The rules will also carve out a new licensing category for nightclubs, one that would make them entities distinct from restaurants. Mr. Khabouth questioned the proposal. "It was a bit confusing [about] who is a nightclub and who is a bar. About 50 per cent of the [clubs] will be in a grey area," he said. One such club is Supermarket, which is located in Kensington market and operates as a restaurant and a nightclub. Owner Greg Bottrell said yesterday that his establishment could be caught in a licensing nightmare. "I'm not sure what is going to be enforced . . . since the city doesn't have strict guidelines for what is what." But Ms. Chow said there is no grey area. "Clubs have very loud music. Most restaurants don't have music that goes till 2 a.m. It's not very hard to tell the difference." The strategy, she said, is long overdue and will keep irresponsible, fly-by-night operations from opening clubs, making a short burst of cash and then quickly shutting down. Toronto wasn't always so strict with nightclubs. As the city's textiles industry slumped in the mid-1980s, companies began to abandon the warehouse district in the King Street and Spadina Avenue neighbourhood. To help reverse the exodus, the city "dezoned" the area to instigate renewal. At that time, the city's attitude was, "Whoever wants to build -- anything -- can come in," Ms. Chow said. The vibrancy of the area these days speaks volumes about that strategy, she said. But success has come "with lots of problems, especially when you have local residents living side by side with very big nightclubs." Police working in the district, which stretches from Spadina Avenue to University Avenue and from Queen Street to King Street, acknowledge there are concerns. "It's not something the division can handle with its own resources," 52 Division Detective Sergeant Gordon Sneddon said. Officers from other divisions are imported to help maintain control, he added. On a Friday or Saturday night, when most clubs are at capacity, 55,000 revellers will pour into the area, Det. Sgt. Sneddon said. "It's quite a drain on police resources." Police statistics suggest the area needs even more officers. This year, 82 of 171 assaults within the division occurred in the club district, Det. Sgt. Sneddon said. In 2004, clubland logged four shootings and reported 16 gun-related calls. In 2005, those numbers have swelled to 12 and 53, respectively, he added. "That's a pretty clear and telling picture," the detective said. Randall Barrs, a lawyer with about a dozen clients in clubland, including Craze, Fluid and Metro, called the new guidelines an "invasive" and "knee-jerk reaction" from city staff who don't understand the nature of the nightclub business. Noting that metal detectors were installed at Metro after an October shooting there, Mr. Barrs said club owners have adequate security on staff. He said most of the people who live in the area "like the action" in the district, and he described residents who complain as a vocal minority. "These people moved in way after [the clubs] were there. And now they're complaining about the noise."

I suggest we TAs start our own citizen's committee to fight back against these morons.

With respect to the taxes and McGuinty giving powers to the municipalities... what do you expect with tax-and-spend Liberals in the Federal, Provincial, AND Municipal governments? It's a tax and regulatory nightmare.

I don't understand things like this... i mean yeah sure metal detecters are very good ideas due to the crime that does seem to g on in that area... but i mean the whole noise complaint thing... this might just be because i thouroughly enjoy the loud blasting music at all hours of the night but i mean come on... you live in one of the busiest cities in Canada...the night scene has been prevailent for a very long time.. now i'm not saying everyone should get up and move out of the club district... but its refered to as a 'club district' for a reason...the residents knew what they were getting themselves into when they moved there...

Nikitha

Isn't Olivia Chow Jack Layton's missus?

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Originally posted by Nikitha I don't understand things like this... i mean yeah sure metal detecters are very good ideas due to the crime that does seem to g on in that area... but i mean the whole noise complaint thing... this might just be because i thouroughly enjoy the loud blasting music at all hours of the night but i mean come on... you live in one of the busiest cities in Canada...the night scene has been prevailent for a very long time.. now i'm not saying everyone should get up and move out of the club district... but its refered to as a 'club district' for a reason...the residents knew what they were getting themselves into when they moved there... Nikitha

But thats canadian mentality. "im here now and im a home owner so kiss my ass"

Sad part is that politicians listen and business owners have no rights.

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Originally posted by EvilTree Isn't Olivia Chow Jack Layton's missus?

Yup typical left wing thiking.... regulate till u choke the problem to death. freedom is for the weak.

typical Conservative responses...

Blame your asshole clubmates who get into drunken brawls in the streets.

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Originally posted by Matt typical Conservative responses... Blame your asshole clubmates who get into drunken brawls in the streets.

those asshole clubmates were there long before the stupid condo owners. And the condo owners knew where they were buying.

The issue i have mostly is with the noise complaints. The metal dectector thing is stupid too (also knee jerk reaction) but the noise complaints and making clubs turn the music down is ludicris.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 those asshole clubmates were there long before the stupid condo owners. And the condo owners knew where they were buying. The issue i have mostly is with the noise complaints. The metal dectector thing is stupid too (also knee jerk reaction) but the noise complaints and making clubs turn the music down is ludicris.

You know what, I just don't have the energy to argue with your Neo-conservative garbage anymore.

It's like arguing with a broken record.

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Originally posted by Matt You know what, I just don't have the energy to argue with your Neo-conservative garbage anymore. It's like arguing with a broken record.

whats neo conservative about telling a bunch of whiners who moved in after the clubs were built to suck it up or move?

i don't consider myself conservative.. hell i don't even vote (Sorry Jayx1!) but its easy to see these condo owners are just weinies... don't like the heat? get out of the kitchen... it was the club district first

Nikitha

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Originally posted by Nikitha i don't consider myself conservative.. hell i don't even vote (Sorry Jayx1!) but its easy to see these condo owners are just weinies... don't like the heat? get out of the kitchen... it was the club district first Nikitha

This is why im serious when i say that its time for TA members to form our own citizens committee and fight back. People like us always sit back and let whiners win.

Agreed, this is pretty ridiculous.

This does nothing to solve the root of the problem. Why do most problems at clubs happen these days? And where? It seems mostly at hip hop night clubs, and usually related to drugs. The root of the problem here stems from quality of life in Toronto, and just the horrible direction in which society is heading. But I honestly don't know how to solve such deep problems.

Europe doesn't have these sort of problems, or even similar regulations for their clubs because their lifestyle and culture is different.

Then again, I guess more clubs may move to the suburbs.

I am assuming suburb regulations are not as strict as this, although they might not be located ideally. One thing that nobody would complain about is noise.

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Originally posted by Dark_Archonis Agreed, this is pretty ridiculous. This does nothing to solve the root of the problem. Why do most problems at clubs happen these days? And where? It seems mostly at hip hop night clubs, and usually related to drugs. The root of the problem here stems from quality of life in Toronto, and just the horrible direction in which society is heading. But I honestly don't know how to solve such deep problems. Europe doesn't have these sort of problems, or even similar regulations for their clubs because their lifestyle and culture is different. Then again, I guess more clubs may move to the suburbs. I am assuming suburb regulations are not as strict as this, although they might not be located ideally. One thing that nobody would complain about is noise.

wanna bet? wakestock and WEMF are in buttfuck nowhere and they have to move every year because they disturb the loons LOL

what has happened is that canadians have lost tolerence for their neighbour and politicians are responding.

Plus the media is much different than in the past. Where as before they reported the news as the news, now they report the news in a "gotcha" format. The news is structured in such a format to get a certain fearful reaction from people and they respond. Watch old CITY TV news reruns on CP24 late at night if u want to see the startling disparity between actual news fact reporting back then, and the fear mongering spin they put on it today.

there are pro's and cons to this argument.

First of all, we have to keep in mind that this doesn't just affect the rave scene, it affects all nightclubs. Hip Hop clubs have a MUCH higher history of violence and guns over a rave. So in that case, more security and metal detectors could be a good thing. On the other hand metal detectors will slow down lines, and who says the staff will pay any attention if they do go off. Out of any clubbing scene I think we have a pretty well rounded group, with a low chance for violence (it happens yes, but not that often). The government is just trying to keep the public safe; if they didn't try to do that (ie really poor roads, no stop lights, no healthcare) we'd bitch too.

The sound thing I do have a problem with. It is not a safety issue, and the club is a business...that is how they attract people to thier club: good DJ, and good soundsystem. Why move in somewhere if you know there is a club nearby, and sound is going to be a problem? I don't understad. And claiming that "I didn't know" isn't an excuse, because you should have done your research.

Overall, I think we need to be optimistic about all of this, keep an open mind and see what happens. If lines get out of control, and the metal detecotors aren't doing anything, and the clubs are losing money then we can always start a petition. I'm sure MANY TA's would sign it.

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Originally posted by iLiptikalOrbitZ The government is just trying to keep the public safe; if they didn't try to do that (ie really poor roads, no stop lights, no healthcare) we'd bitch too.

No the government is taking the easy route to make it look like they are doing something. Metal detectors sound like a great idea to average joe when in reality it doesnt do anything.

Its called smoke and mirrors politiking

PS most smaller clubs and bars cant afford these things. Imagine smaller clubs having to buy an airport style metal detector? these rules are going to shut down a lot of places.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 wanna bet? wakestock and WEMF are in buttfuck nowhere and they have to move every year because they disturb the loons LOL what has happened is that canadians have lost tolerence for their neighbour and politicians are responding. Plus the media is much different than in the past. Where as before they reported the news as the news, now they report the news in a "gotcha" format. The news is structured in such a format to get a certain fearful reaction from people and they respond. Watch old CITY TV news reruns on CP24 late at night if u want to see the startling disparity between actual news fact reporting back then, and the fear mongering spin they put on it today.

That's prepousterous ... WEMF actually disturbing anyone?

You're right, the media is using fear all to often these days to control people.

We do not live in a collective society like many European countries.

Individualism sucks.

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Originally posted by Matt typical Conservative responses... Blame your asshole clubmates who get into drunken brawls in the streets.

NEWSFLASH!! People who are drunk are usually rowdy too...have u ever been drunk before??

And what do noisy drunk people who get into brawls have anything to do with a loud soundsystem??

Re: Toronto Cracking Down On Nightclubs Yet Again

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Originally posted by Jayx1 ... I suggest we TAs start our own citizen's committee to fight back against these morons.

hop to it then

if "55,000" people pour into that area every weekend...that's a heckuva loud political voice vs. a few condo owners.

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Originally posted by Dark_Archonis That's prepousterous ... WEMF actually disturbing anyone? You're right, the media is using fear all to often these days to control people. We do not live in a collective society like many European countries. Individualism sucks.

apparently people who live near fairgrounds never counted on the property to actually be used for anything...

apparently wemf made so much noise that "the loons havnt come back" according to orangeville city council meetings.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 This is why im serious when i say that its time for TA members to form our own citizens committee and fight back. People like us always sit back and let whiners win.

i dont let them win.. i keep bugging them til they get tired of me..

but i agree with most of the things nikitha said.. still .. is too late and i'll write a proper post tomorrow..

Re: Re: Toronto Cracking Down On Nightclubs Yet Again

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Originally posted by MarkT hop to it then if "55,000" people pour into that area every weekend...that's a heckuva loud political voice vs. a few condo owners.

Sure that sounds like a big number, but how many people actually want to do something. Sure a lot of us whine like this, but how many of us would actually be willing to start organizing rallies?

I think most of us would attend such a rally, but planning is the key issue.

Re: Re: Re: Toronto Cracking Down On Nightclubs Yet Again

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Originally posted by Orko Sure that sounds like a big number, but how many people actually want to do something. Sure a lot of us whine like this, but how many of us would actually be willing to start organizing rallies? I think most of us would attend such a rally, but planning is the key issue.

Just book a good DJ to the rally, and a lot of people will show up

Re: Re: Re: Re: Toronto Cracking Down On Nightclubs Yet Again

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Just book a good DJ to the rally, and a lot of people will show up

Thats actually not a bad idea, like the AIDs Awareness rally at dundas square, but I have no idea what the turn out was like for it. It was mighty cold.

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