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Countdown to Williams getting "Tookinated"

WOOHOO!!

In less than 8 hours, one long awaited execution will finally take place. I can't believe this asshole has been allowed to live this long as it was!

It's about time we push the pendulum the other way, and get back to the realities of life; Some people are just evil leaches on society, and they need to go!

"Roast in Peace", Tookie!

hope it doesn't start riots. damn, i gotta go buy a gun.

i'm with you on that. he claimed the whole time that he was innocent and was also writing books about gang life and how it's bad.

^^^It's interesting how so many Liberals and so-called "Black Leaders" hold up these deeds, as though they somehow absolve him from paying the ultimate price for taking innocent people's lives. I wonder why scumbags and criminals are always the people that Jesse Jackson and the like wish to paint as their "Heros"?

kill him. Have no sympathy this guy killed or had killed many people he deserves to die. This BULLSHIT thats what I call it of him getting off this death penalty is total bullshit! If he was white would this be happening? Guy would be fried already. Spanish same thing.

Oh in if your in LA I suggest break the fuck out cuz they is gonna riot in dat motha sucka!

Okay, last time I checked he is gone to hell or the earth or wherever the heck murderers go and what, NO RIOTS. Trust me not TOO many blacks were making a fuss about this guy because they know all too well about the different gangs that roam that cesspool of South Central especially. If a man kills another and under the law he is sentenced beyond doubt, black or white he should pay the ultimate price for his actions, Mr. Williams was no different and justice was served for the victims.

And would people please, please stop holding up Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton as the arbitors of black voice in America, fyi, most blacks laugh at these guys when they are on TV or their names are mentioned on the news, does Jerry Fallwell or Pat Robertson represent the voice of whites. Exactly.

Shut up, dude you know you love Jesse Jackson hehe. Anyways, yesterday i was in this bar and for some reason a bunch of Italians and Irish folk were all talking about him (seperatly) and I was like what the fuck? who cares really? The only reason I never knew about this is because i was watching BET for some random chance when his story came on and i checked it out and I was like aww boo hoo...die! They are trying to paint him some sort of revolutionary just because he wrote all those anti-gang books. Everyone admitts that it's great that he changed in jail and wrote so many good books for kids to not follow the path to gangs and street crime but it doesn't change the fact that he has killed a human being.

The interesting thing is Europe seems more interested in this and calling America barbaric for doing it, etc. Austrian Greens wanted to revoke Shwarzneggers's citizenship, rename the football stadium that bears his name there, German politicians call it outrageous and brutal, Italian politicians find it disgusting and a political ploy by "Arnie", one thing though, have they met the families of Mr. Williams victims. Even the Vatican got in on it, saying it solves nothing. WTF! The simplest question for me is, was Mr. Williams innocent of his crimes? No one was able to argue that.

I'm actually quite impressed that the governator denied the stay of execution given the rampant rumors of rioting and the global pressure you just mentioned. It was no doubt not an easy decision to make, but he stood firm.

aww the Vatican...FUCK THE VATICAN. They could take their religious laws and bullshit and impose it on whoever the hell they want. They will not get a bit of sympathy in progressive areas of the US like Cali or NY, or NYC at least. Other countries could suck my wang as well, none of their bloody business. how's that for barbaric?

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan The interesting thing is Europe seems more interested in this and calling America barbaric for doing it, etc. Austrian Greens wanted to revoke Shwarzneggers's citizenship, rename the football stadium that bears his name there, German politicians call it outrageous and brutal, Italian politicians find it disgusting and a political ploy by "Arnie", one thing though, have they met the families of Mr. Williams victims. Even the Vatican got in on it, saying it solves nothing. WTF! The simplest question for me is, was Mr. Williams innocent of his crimes? No one was able to argue that.

Europeans and their so-called "Progressive" views on the death penalty, punishment and reform would do well to recall the case of the JACK UNTERWEGER. The Austrian born serial killer who was released from prison only a few years after being sentenced for the brutal murder of a prostitute.

He too gained celebrity status while in prison by writing, and he also was held up as an example of "reform", so he was released after only 14 years! Elitists and celebrities were his biggest supporters too, just as in the case of this A-Hole "Tookie".

"Jack" went on to live the high life, traveling Europe with his high-society supporters crammed aboard his band-wagon, making the rounds on TV shows and in the press as the poster-child for reform and redemption. A popular guest, he spoke eloquently about how he'd changed...all the while, he's killing women at about the rate of 1 per month!

Unterweger went on to kill at least 16 prostitues in just a couple of years, all around the world! He even got a job to write a story about crime in America, and did ride-alongs with the Los Angeles Police Department! And the whole time he was here, writing about America's awful crime problem, he contributed to it by killing 3 prostitues!

So STFU Europe! You have your heads up your collective "Arsses" when it comes to dealing with murderers!

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan The simplest question for me is, was Mr. Williams innocent of his crimes?

The simplest question for me is, does that give the state the moral authority to kill him?

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Originally posted by Lepanto Other countries could suck my wang as well, none of their bloody business.

Just like the human rights abuses in Iraq were none of the US's "bloody business"? Are human rights universal, regardless of what nation the crimes are committed in, or not?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco "Arsses"

If you're going to make fun of people for employing the correct spelling of the word "arse", you might as well make the effort to spell it correctly yourself...

Lame to compare the case of Iraq with this piece of shit. I wouldn't cross the street to piss on his head if it was on fire. You're right it's wrong to kill him...we should put him in a building complex, glue his dick to the floor, give him a rusty butter knife and set the place on fire. let him decide

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Originally posted by Renegade The simplest question for me is, does that give the state the moral authority to kill him?

Problem #2 with Europeans; They often see the State as being a lording power over them, omnipotent and casting down edicts of it's own valition...maybe as a result of thousands of years of states having actually existed in this way...where-as in this country, we see the "state" as being a representative and servant of the PEOPLE's wishes, and the people have spoken; TOOKIE HAD TO DIE!

I think we could put this whole stupid argument about the death penalty in this country to bed by allowing the victim's families to decide whether the murderer gets life in prison or death. After-all, it happened to their family...who are a bunch of detached actors, publicity seekers and mis-guided Liberals to butt their noses in to it anyway?

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Originally posted by Renegade The simplest question for me is, does that give the state the moral authority to kill him?

Well according to the Law of the Land that he was sentenced under it does. I know if I ever killed a human being please give me the gun to take my own life after said action. I have a hard time with all of the truly innocent people out there dying everyday to see this guy as some kind of reformed con that deserves a second chance after murder. If true that he had a hand in the founding of the Crips gang then he has done a whole lot to the black community that only drugs and poverty could rival.

The easiest way to have not been in Mr. Williams position is to not have killed in the first place, that is morality.

Why is Europe making this guy out to be some kind of martyr,
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10450663/

Some of the most ridiculous statements I have seen. I am a pretty open guy about Europe but this is beyond me. Newsflash the reason he was on death row for 21 years is because he was allowed the opportunity to exhaust every avenue of appeal for the conviction of his crimes and in the end was guilty of them. Just because a man becomes old and has grey hair and beard doesn't make him not responsible for his crimes of murder. This is truly ridiculous that Europe is making this man look like some cult hero. My deepest repugnance and indignation are reserved for the lowest of human beings (murders, child molesters). Life is far too valuable for someone to murder and then claim they have overcome their actions and we grant them mercy for murdering.

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Originally posted by Lepanto Lame to compare the case of Iraq with this piece of shit.

But it's the same concept. If the European nations see capital punishment as a human rights abuse - and if human rights are universal - then why shouldn't they make it their business? Can another nation question what it sees to be human rights abuses in another country or not?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Problem #2 with Europeans; They often see the State as being a lording power over them, omnipotent and casting down edicts of it's own valition...

There is no greater power that a state can "lord" over its citizens than the power to kill them. How does this fit in with your libertarian, minimization of government philosophy?

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Originally posted by donnybrasco I think we could put this whole stupid argument about the death penalty in this country to bed by allowing the victim's families to decide whether the murderer gets life in prison or death. After-all, it happened to their family...who are a bunch of detached actors, publicity seekers and mis-guided Liberals to butt their noses in to it anyway?

It really doesn't matter what the "victim's families" or "detached actors, publicity seekers and mis-guided Liberals" think, there is only one question with regards to capital punishment that needs answering: from where did the government - a group of people elected by a bigger group of people - obtain the moral authority to kill its own citizens?

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Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Well according to the Law of the Land that he was sentenced under it does.

No doubt. Is that law morally justifiable, though?

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I know if I ever killed a human being please give me the gun to take my own life after said action. I have a hard time with all of the truly innocent people out there dying everyday to see this guy as some kind of reformed con that deserves a second chance after murder. If true that he had a hand in the founding of the Crips gang then he has done a whole lot to the black community that only drugs and poverty could rival.

I'm not trying to justify what he did, nor would I for a second argue that he shouldn't have been punished for it. But ask yourself, even from a pragmatic angle, what will killing him actually acheieve? Will it acheieve anything - other than the satisfaction of bloodlust - that lifetime imprisonment couldn't? Will it bring back the dead, or reduce the possibility of similar crimes in the future?

From a moral angle, what death-penalty advocates don't seem to understand is that it's not so much about the criminals as it is about us. It's not that a man guilty of murdering an entire family necessarily "deserves to live" (although what exactly that means and who exactly has the authority to decide that, I'm not quite sure) it's that - in our justice systems - we should not reduce ourselves to the same level of barbarism as the people we're condemning. Afterall, does facilitating the death of a murderer not make us murderers ourselves?

quote:

The easiest way to have not been in Mr. Williams position is to not have killed in the first place, that is morality.

He might have known that he faced death for what he was doing - does that, in any way, make killing him right though? Can sanctioning the death of another human being really constitute "morality"?

quote:

Originally posted by Renegade He might have known that he faced death for what he was doing - does that, in any way, make killing him right though? Can sanctioning the death of another human being really constitute "morality"?

I see this from a completely different perspective and yet consider myself a moderate to liberal person. I believe that life is to be respected, however when an individual murders another human being then that right can be trumped by the state for that exact reason. I don't know why people murder, but nothing can get me to do it to another human being who is innocent. I firmly believe that we must all be held accountable to the hightest punishment of the land if convicted of such a crime as taking the life of an innocent individual.

Maybe it is because I look at it from my perspective and not from any moralistic viewpoint that I feel this way. If all it took was for every convicted killer to become "converted" to achieve a reprieve from death themselves for their actions of murder against society then is that justice.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan I see this from a completely different perspective and yet consider myself a moderate to liberal person.

You don't have to be a conservative to support the death-penalty, nor a liberal to oppose it. I think this is an issue that transcends mere left / right politics.

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I believe that life is to be respected, however when an individual murders another human being then that right can be trumped by the state for that exact reason.

But you're still not telling me where the state derives that authority from.

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I don't know why people murder, but nothing can get me to do it to another human being who is innocent. I firmly believe that we must all be held accountable to the hightest punishment of the land if convicted of such a crime as taking the life of an innocent individual.

There are no greater crimes than the murder of an innocent individual and so, for this reason, you are quite right: such a crime deserves the greatest penalty a state can hand down. The only issue is - yet again - why should a state have the right to institute capital punishment as its "highest punishment"?

quote:

Maybe it is because I look at it from my perspective and not from any moralistic viewpoint that I feel this way. If all it took was for every convicted killer to become "converted" to achieve a reprieve from death themselves for their actions of murder against society then is that justice.

I'm not sure that demonstrating sings of "conversion" or remorse is much of an issue here. It's as wrong to kill a man who shows no remorse as it is to kill a man who is so consumed by grief for what he has done that he cannot even get out of bed in the morning. Killing a man for what has been done and what cannot be undone makes no sense, regardless of how much remorse he shows.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan Well according to the Law of the Land that he was sentenced under it does. I know if I ever killed a human being please give me the gun to take my own life after said action. I have a hard time with all of the truly innocent people out there dying everyday to see this guy as some kind of reformed con that deserves a second chance after murder. If true that he had a hand in the founding of the Crips gang then he has done a whole lot to the black community that only drugs and poverty could rival. The easiest way to have not been in Mr. Williams position is to not have killed in the first place, that is morality.

What if he didn't kill them?

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew What if he didn't kill them?

I believe it is fair to say that this is not the likely scenario in this case for Mr. Williams. Even his supporters couldn't go as far as saying he was innocent of or not responsible for these crimes or he received an unfair trial or poor representation in court. None of these things were a factor in his situation. The question was wether by simply saying he had renounced violence, become a speaker against gangs and understood a different path of life based on his prior actions was enough to warrant being reprieved from death, I don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by NYCTrancefan I believe it is fair to say that this is not the likely scenario in this case for Mr. Williams. Even his supporters couldn't go as far as saying he was innocent of or not responsible for these crimes or he received an unfair trial or poor representation in court. None of these things were a factor in his situation. The question was wether by simply saying he had renounced violence, become a speaker against gangs and understood a different path of life based on his prior actions was enough to warrant being reprieved from death, I don't think so.

Now I'm not really into this case, at all, but you know the aweful history of the US legal system? It wouldn't be the firsttime someone innocent was killed... That's the biggest reason I'm against it, simply because if there is only slight chance that he is not quilty, then you have no right to kill him.

Then I don't really see the point in revange either, if the guy changed then why still kill him?!

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Originally posted by Renegade But you're still not telling me where the state derives that authority from.

The government has a monopoly on the use of force. Perhaps the state derives the authority from we, the people, who have entrusted the state with that duty.

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Originally posted by Renegade I'm not sure that demonstrating sings of "conversion" or remorse is much of an issue here. It's as wrong to kill a man who shows no remorse as it is to kill a man who is so consumed by grief for what he has done that he cannot even get out of bed in the morning. Killing a man for what has been done and what cannot be undone makes no sense, regardless of how much remorse he shows.

That is a very easy answer however to simply say that you are against any man dying, kind of akin to the idea of well God is omnipresent. It does nothing to deal with the individual's actions in society and their violation of something that is sacred as life and all the potential that comes from that existence. Just because Mr. Williams demonstrated no respect for human life in his actions, doesn't automatically mean that society is as barbaric as his actions were for holding him to the higest punishment possible for his choices in life.

In life we all have consequences for our actions, usually established by the society in which we live. The state derives the authority to execute Mr. Williams, from his peers who demed it was necessary in his case to give him said punishment as opposed to life in prison at the time he was sentenced because of his actions. Anyone who applies the concept of morality must surely understand then that society is going to be the barometer of that concept.

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Originally posted by St_Andrew Now I'm not really into this case, at all, but you know the aweful history of the US legal system? It wouldn't be the firsttime someone innocent was killed... That's the biggest reason I'm against it, simply because if there is only slight chance that he is not quilty, then you have no right to kill him.[/quote I admittedly am not as on top of this case as I could be, but there's no doubt that this guy was the founder of the Crips in LA, and therefore, is directly/indirectly responsible for a lot more violence than the media seems to want to acknowledge. [quote]Then I don't really see the point in revange either, if the guy changed then why still kill him?!

He took life, so he has forfeited his own right to life. If his victims miraculously came back to life, maybe it would be a different story. And yeah, even though killing him doesn't do anything to really ease the suffering of his victims' families, I'd rather not have to shell out tax money to pay to keep a pioneer of gang violence alive. Great--he wrote some childrens' stories, but how many innocent children were killed in drive-by shootings that he probably helped orchestrate? Simply saying you're sorry doesn't right a wrong. If you break laws, there are consequences.

Check out The Code of Hammurabi (Edit: Not as much here as I had hoped for):


Source

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The laws do not accept excuses or explanations for mistakes or fault: the Code was openly displayed for all to see, so no man could plead ignorance of the law as an excuse. Few people, however, could read in that era (literacy mainly being the domain of scribes).

I don't think it's so much about revenge as it is simply about there being consequences to breaking a law.

If this man has truly paid for his sins and atoned, then let God be the ultimate judge of his final destination.

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