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Phat Hats

Yes, believe it or not, I have a question.

I often notice in some of my productions that the hats - particularly the open hats - sound kind of thin. Usually I just let it go, not knowing exactly what the problem is. Well, during a painstaking attempt to master one of these tracks tonight, I finally busted out the spectrum analyzer and realized that they sound thin because they ARE thin!

I'm taking a really short sample from Way Out West - Hypnotize (right-click, save as) to show what I mean here (I'm sure there are hundreds of trance tracks that use this kind of hat as well, although most of the ones I listen to seem to use a more metallic type of sound). If you load that up in an analyzer, you'll see that the hats (the only thing really playing in the high frequency range) fill up the entire spectrum almost linearly from 5 kHz to 10 kHz. With the hats I use (and I have a *lot* of hats), I'm lucky to get 1 kHz of steady bandwidth before it seems to drop off.

EQ just doesn't seem to do the trick. I know to try and remove the sibilance range but it still doesn't really flatten out the spectrum like what you can see in that sample. Layering different hats will fill up the range, but in a way that's staggered and doesn't sound particularly good to me no matter how many layers there are.

I'm starting to wonder if maybe white noise is used in them? If it is, though, it's not *just* white noise, because they clearly sound like hats and not like noise blobs.

Has anyone succeeded in getting these massive sounding hats? Are there any particular effects you use or processes you go through to get that almost perfectly flat spectrum in the high end?

Cheers, thanks in advance for any tips.

- Aaron

Maybe compression can phatten it? With a sharp attack to keep the punch and fairly high compression (low tresh, high ratio) it can make it more present.....Adding white noise is aslo an idea, i dont doubt it can beef up open hats if done properly, eq the noise yo you keep only like frequencies between 3-10k or something like that. hope this helps

whens the last time you had a question lol?

The right initial samples help, but also there are a few tricks you can apply.

1. Small amount (or very large!) of pitch shift +ve left, and a small aamount -ve on the Right, and a neutral pitch in the Middle. Done too much sounds plain wrong, a little adds body.

2. Small amount of 100% wet delay on one side Vs the other (Like a couple of ms slapback, no feedback)

3. Waves TrueVerb, very tight setting, dense reflections can give a very pleasing added dimension to the Hats without muddying them in the slightest

4. And combination of 1-3 with decent starting samples

Some folks like distorting their HHts, personally I find it fatiguing, but each to their own.

Hope some of the above is useful..

Holy shit DigiNut has a question!!!! Its all over now.


Anyway, the best tool to fatten up your hats is the QuadraFuzz plugin that comes with cubase....man this thing is fully loaded with total controll over a 3-5 bands. you may think "Distortion, fuck that" just subtly overdriving the hats in the right place can totaly change their place in the spectrum. I'm telling you if you use cubase you have to check this gem out.

Another good idea that I think was mentioned already is detuning your hats slightly...grab a sample, stick it in the sammpler and detune teh bastard...then do the same to a second instance of the same sample and pan them. I'm not gonna get into detail here since you already know your shit...but remeber you want to add freaquencies that arnt present at the moment. Also try using hats that cover different places in the spectrum and place them in different locations, alla reverb and panning.

A good Valve compressor always helps loads too...some even add some extra noise that just goes well.

quote:

Originally posted by Limit A good Valve compressor always helps loads too...

What valve compressor are you using?

Good stuff guys. I've already tried valve compressors and layering samples, but I'm definitely going to try some of those other tips (fuzz, the +ve/-ve pitch shift, and TrueVerb).

Limit: can you give me a general idea of the settings you use for this in QuadraFuzz? I obviously know which bands to use, but there are a whole bunch of different modes and settings - I take it you use programs similar to the "Drums" programs?

Thanks!

hum.. mess again with equalisation!
don't compress the hats much because they will lose power.
http://s61.yousendit.com/d.aspx?id=...6M1STXQ45PTKHN2

Hey. To get that sound, I'd drop them 20 semitones and then throw an envelope to kill the sample (since resampling extends it). If its a short sample, you make the call on if you want to or not. Next, youll want to load up a frequency analyzer and EQ it to have as flat of a response you can get out of it. Compression is kind of an optional thing. If you want to through in some punch to it since its mostly flat now, try a low ratio around 4.0 or so, a threshold of -30, and a gain of 15db. I used 15ms and 200ms for the attack and release. Next, toss in the old sample unaltered and then over those two samples, throw in a bit crusher. For that, youll just have to play with the settings cause thatll all be dependant on the samples and the outcome of the response you gave them.

Cheers,
Zac

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Limit: can you give me a general idea of the settings you use for this in QuadraFuzz? I obviously know which bands to use, but there are a whole bunch of different modes and settings - I take it you use programs similar to the "Drums" programs? Thanks!

Well honestly I really dont just stick to the presets...but it all depends on what I want from the sound. Usualy I'll just use 3-bands and just screw around. one major thing that make s a huge difference is using different envelope types.....the envelopes are on the side of the edit menu where the equilizer section is. Now the tighter the envelope you choose the tighter your hats will be...so here is the best part....I use single one shot samples and put them through Quadrafuzz but you use different enevelope types for each...for open Hihats I use the lowest envelope and for closed hats I use the second to the top(as its nice and tight)...basically you can just play around. Once you have your single samples processed start making a pattern and see what happens.

I hate dealing with hats, i'm very strict on them too
i usually use nomad factory liquid bundle..i love the smoothness of it,a and i love that on my higher pitched percussion
i also use camel phat sometimes but spend some time playing with the knobs to get the sound i like

Try layering your sample over some enveloped whit noise. Pay particular attention to making the white noise louder where the sample is weak, I'd imagine. Then you can EQ it to your liking.

It's all about tasteful quantity.

most of my producing problems are in fitting open hihats in a mix, i didn't found perfect eq settings for ohihat yet.
what about open hihat envelope settings? attack is 0,but decay,release,etc. ?

I've always tried detuning them a little (using a couple of times the same sample), works pretty well like this most of the time

Sometimes layering them with different sounding hats works fine too.

Lots of good advice here, never thought of de-tuneing. I couldn't listen to the sample Digi-nut posted (no headphones on me), W.O.W produces really good hihats though. I like using lots of reverb, like plate presets on them, with some e.qing boosting 1.5kh with a thin band, then a resonaunt high pass filter.
Cheers!

quote:

Originally posted by Icone I've always tried detuning them a little (using a couple of times the same sample), works pretty well like this most of the time Sometimes layering them with different sounding hats works fine too.

well the master has spoken..so we shall listen!

hey how to detune them? is it pitching?

quote:

Originally posted by Limit well the master has spoken..so we shall listen!

I'm hardly a master

quote:

Originally posted by krivi hey how to detune them? is it pitching?

Yes pitching! I try using different samples Wim but sometimes you get phasing and they sound awful!

quote:

Originally posted by retiro Yes pitching! I try using different samples Wim but sometimes you get phasing and they sound awful!

Yes, indeed - I sometimes have that too. Most of the time when using two exact same hats and pitch them. When using different samples I don't really have that problem.

With what sampler can you really detune them though?

layering, pan, pitch and timestretch will do the trick..

quote:

Originally posted by Icone With what sampler can you really detune them though?

Any sampler - Battery works fine for that though.

Still, detuning isn't the answer I'm looking for. Detuning creates harmonics, but in the high frequency range the harmonics become so high that they either end up sounding way too harsh or outside the audible spectrum completely.

I've gotten some pretty decent results so far using QuadraFuzz as well as a little bit of filtered white noise - that seems to have been the best advice so far. Thanks again everyone!

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