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Spying on mosques and Muslims

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US mosques checked for radiation US authorities have been secretly monitoring radiation levels at Muslim sites amid fears that terrorists might obtain nuclear weapons, it has emerged. Scores of mosques and private addresses have been checked for radiation, the US News and World Report says. A Justice Department spokesman said the programme was necessary in the fight against al-Qaeda. Last week, President George W Bush admitted allowing the wiretapping of Americans with suspected terror links. Mr Bush has defended the covert programme and vowed to continue the practice, saying it was vital to protect the country. No warrants According to US News and World Report, the nuclear surveillance programme was set up after the attacks of 11 September 2001. It began in early 2002 and has been run by the FBI and the Department of Energy's Nuclear Emergency Support Team. The Associated Press news agency said federal law enforcement officials have confirmed the programme's existence. quote: The targets were almost all US citizens Source US News and World Report The air monitoring targeted private US property in the Washington DC area, including Maryland and Virginia suburbs, and the cities of Chicago, Detroit, Las Vegas, New York and Seattle, the magazine said. At its peak, three vehicles in Washington monitored 120 sites a day. Nearly all of the targets were key Muslim sites. "In numerous cases, the monitoring required investigators to go on to the property under surveillance, although no search warrants or court orders were ever obtained, according to those with knowledge of the programme," the publication said. "The targets were almost all US citizens," an unnamed source involved in the programme told the magazine. "A lot of us thought it was questionable, but people who complained nearly lost their jobs," the source said. Muslim anger Federal officials cited by US News and World Report said that monitoring on public property, such as driveways and parking lots, was legal and that warrants were not needed for the kind of radiation sampling it conducted. They also rejected the claim that the programme specifically targeted Muslims. A spokesman for the Department of Justice said the programme was necessary as al-Qaeda remained committed to obtaining nuclear weapons. An FBI spokesman declined to confirm or deny the report. Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations, said the news "comes as a complete shock to us and everyone in the Muslim community". He added: "This creates the appearance that Muslims are targeted simply for being Muslims. I don't think this is the message the government wants to send at this time."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4557224.stm

Gotta love having no privacy and being profiled. But don't worry, it's happening to camel-jockeys so it's of no concern.

Well last I checked, people who blow themselves up in public aren't the one's who go to Churches or Synagogues.

(oh yes, I went there.)

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Well last I checked, people who blow themselves up in public aren't the one's who go to Churches or Synagogues. (oh yes, I went there.)

That's right, they go around the world bombing entire nations, taking control of their resources, impose sanctions that kill thousands of children, funding death squads and terrorist groups in Latin America etc etc and the list goes on forever.

Now what was your point again?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's right, they go around the world bombing entire nations, taking control of their resources, impose sanctions that kill thousands of children, funding death squads and terrorist groups in Latin America etc etc and the list goes on forever. Now what was your point again?

My original point, which still holds (because you didn't disqualify it at all), is that the people you referred to above don't blow themselves up in public, only (few) Muslims and Islams do. I never said Christians and Jews didn't have sour apples (and I mostly agree with your statement on what they do), but at least they have enough respect for themselves to not detonate their own bodies for the sake of their god.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson My original point, which still holds (because you didn't disqualify it at all), is that the people you refered to above don't blow themselves up in public, only (few) Muslims and Islams do. I never said Christians and Jews didn't have sour apples (and I mostly agree with your statement on what they do), but at least they have enough respect for themselves to not detonate their own bodies for the sake of their god.

I think you missed the point. Why should we hold Muslims/Arabs to a different standard? Let's say if some person commits a crime, you don't go and start spying on the entire neighborhood. There is a proper way of investigating and finding the bad guys. Do you think it's appropritate to spy on all white people after the Oklahoma city bombing because Timoty Mcveigh was white?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I think you missed the point. Why should we hold Muslims/Arabs to a different standard?

Why? Because every terrorist who has blown his/herself up has been only in that category.

Let's see if there are any other groups of people blowing themselves up...

Are Jews? No.
Are Asians? No.
Are Christians? No.
Are limp wristed flaming homosexuals? No.

America targets the Muslim/Arab psychographic because ONLY that group of people has a subcategory that likes to blow themselves up without notice.

It sucks to be an Arab in America if you don't affiliate with the rest of the U.S./Jew/gay/women-hating Muslim world in the Middle East. But there is little reason to spy on any other group of people in this field because ONLY this group is involved. Is it racist? Of course! But I think it's better to discriminate than coat it with some P.C. and waste time by spying on everyone when it's obvious that these group of terrorists are exclusively under the category of Muslim/Arab.

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Let's say if some person commits a crime, you don't go and start spying on the entire neighborhood.

If there is reason to believe that others in the neighborhood are affiliated, then yes. And depending on the crime, spying may be a necessary percaution.

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There is a proper way of investigating and finding the bad guys. Do you think it's appropritate to spy on all white people after the Oklahoma city bombing because Timoty Mcveigh was white?

Obviosuly not, because the majority of America is white. Moreover (and more importantly) Timothy Mcveigh does not belong to a sub-cult of a religion promoting his kind of behavior. He is a psychological deviant, not part of an overall religious movement that involves thousands of other people doing the same thing for the same reason. Hence, your Timothy Mcveigh situation is not applicable to this topic.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Why? Because every terrorist who has blown his/herself up has been only in that category.

That is no excuse to spy on EVERYONE!

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Originally posted by Jake Benson America targets the Muslim/Arab psychographic because ONLY that group of people has a subcategory that likes to blow themselves up without notice.

If that subcategory was significantly large, then yes it could make some sense. I don't think below 0.1 % qualifies.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson It sucks to be an Arab in America if you don't affiliate with the rest of the U.S./Jew/gay/women-hating Muslim world in the Middle East.

I don't see what your ignorant broad generalization of the Middle East has to do with this.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson But there is little reason to spy on any other group of people in this field because ONLY this group is involved. Is it racist? Of course!

First of all, Muslims aren't a homogenous ethnic group so it's kind of hard to call it racist. It certainly is prejudice and bigotry though. And since you conceded to that much, that reason enough to why it's unacceptable.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson But I think it's better to discriminate than coat it with some P.C. and waste time by spying on everyone when it's obvious that these group of terrorists are exclusively under the category of Muslim/Arab.

I'm against the Goverment spying on ANYONE without enough compelling evidence and a proper warrant, Muslims or not.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson If there is reason to believe that others in the neighborhood are affiliated, then yes. And depending on the crime, spying may be a necessary percaution.

Yeah, screw the Constitution and the 9th Amendment that makes America what it is.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Obviosuly not, because the majority of America is white.

And?!?!?!?!?! So if it's a minority it's acceptable? Nonsense! Using your "they were from this group" logic, that would be the rational conclusion.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson Moreover (and more importantly) Timothy Mcveigh does not belong to a sub-cult of a religion promoting his kind of behavior. He is a psychological deviant, not part of an overall religious movement that involves thousands of other people doing the same thing for the same reason. Hence, your Timothy Mcveigh situation is not applicable to this topic.

No, it does apply. Just becuase the terrorists happen to be Arabs doesn't mean that all Arab and Muslims should be suspects. Innocent until proved guilty (in this case, conspiring to plan an attack). 9-11 wasn't religiously motivated ok. It was a tragic result of far worse/more injustices suffered because of US foreign policy, so stop giving me this mindless bullshit about how Islam is the cause.

and again and again they wonder why muslims hate them and their freedom.

Might as well jus throw all the muslims into a camp just like what the Nazi did to the jews.

God damnit! I wrote this BIG reply and then when I hit sent, it said I wasn't logged in and all of my reply was gone.

shaolin_z, this is a great argument, and I'll be back. I just gotta sleep on the fact that I wasted 20 minutes for nothing. =( In the meanwhle, I found out that we both like Solarstone! Nice. =)

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer and again and again they wonder why muslims hate them and their freedom. Might as well jus throw all the muslims into a camp just like what the Nazi did to the jews.

because, thus far in history, no one has ever thrown them into camps and killed them or something along those lines, :cough: SADDAM :cough:

given the consequences of a nuclear attack on a major US city...i have no real problem with the government doing radiation checks on places muslim or otherwise. hell they can come do radiation checks at my house if they want. this isn't false imprisionment or some invasion of privacy. anyone with nothing to hide really shouldn't care about this as far as i'm concerned. if there was no threat then there would be no reason for it, but i'm glad they are attempting to prevent the next large scale attack.

wow, i find it hilarious and sad that liberals have a problem with this, but what else is new. I have absolutely no problem with this and i hope they keep doing what theyre doing. Hmmm, i wonder why we haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11, maybe Bush is doing something right. i agree with the last comment, we're talking about radiation checks not spying on their everyday activities. even though i would not have a problem with that, i know many muslims, lived with them for a long time and don't trust any of them. too bad this story got out though, now they know and will come up with new ways to avoid getting caught.

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Originally posted by sponger wow, i find it hilarious and sad that liberals have a problem with this, but what else is new. I have absolutely no problem with this and i hope they keep doing what theyre doing. Hmmm, i wonder why we haven't had a terrorist attack on our soil since 9-11, maybe Bush is doing something right. i agree with the last comment, we're talking about radiation checks not spying on their everyday activities. even though i would not have a problem with that, i know many muslims, lived with them for a long time and don't trust any of them. too bad this story got out though, now they know and will come up with new ways to avoid getting caught.

I wish I had a great leader here like Bush so that I could be protected against those evil muslims too.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer I wish I had a great leader here like Bush so that I could be protected against those evil muslims too.

canada who said anything about "evil muslims"? ordinary muslims are not the enemies, its the radicals that are a problem. and there are mosques out there who help them out in one way or another, so i see no problem in keeping an eye on them, atleast doing radiation checks for crying out loud.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer I wish I had a great leader here like Bush so that I could be protected against those evil muslims too.

you islamo-fascist apologists continue to deny the fact that the ones who BOMBED THE WTC and BOMBED LONDON and COMMIT ACTS OF TERRORISM are all MUSLIMS

I say let the US government spy all they want on mosques and suspicious islamofascists living anywhere in the US

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Might as well jus throw all the muslims into a camp just like what the Nazi did to the jews.

whats funny is that the entire muslim middle east wouldn't hesistate for a second to throw all the israelis and jews into the world into the same death camp thanks to islam

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Originally posted by Jake Benson God damnit! I wrote this BIG reply and then when I hit sent, it said I wasn't logged in and all of my reply was gone. shaolin_z, this is a great argument, and I'll be back. I just gotta sleep on the fact that I wasted 20 minutes for nothing. =(

Take your time.

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Originally posted by Jake Benson In the meanwhle, I found out that we both like Solarstone! Nice. =)

Cool, yeah, they're pretty good.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer and again and again they wonder why muslims hate them and their freedom. Might as well jus throw all the muslims into a camp just like what the Nazi did to the jews.

You take a bunch of jews and one arab and the arab will walk away alive.
you take a bunch of arabs and throw in a jew... the arabs walk away with bloody hands.
this is reality.

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Originally posted by dj_ilan_yosef You take a bunch of jews and one arab and the arab will walk away alive. you take a bunch of arabs and throw in a jew... the arabs walk away with bloody hands. this is reality.

You're right.

And hardcore trancer your comments are in bad taste, especially since you live in one of the most ethnic cities in the world. (All be it one of the most boring cities also) but still.

The Bush comments are also old, ya he's a tard but he's there to stay so you mid aswell get cozy and trying to find some positive in Mr. Bush's madness or it'll be a tough few years.

Believe it or not, all this secret spying is probably approved by a lot of Americans (they probably secretely or disceretly agree and just put on a dignified face to make it seem they believe everyone is equal).

Racial profiling is a problem, it's definately a bad thing, but remember who the majority of Americans are, (hint: not muslims) and remember who was elected and given the executive power to protect the majority of Americans (hint: He isn't a muslim either, and he's kinda dumb).

American politics to us Canadians = Take it or leave it.

I was a big Bush hater during the election in '04, now I realize I mid aswell try to see some good in what he's doing. (even though his means are at times barbaric and dastardly).

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Originally posted by sponger canada who said anything about "evil muslims"? ordinary muslims are not the enemies, its the radicals that are a problem. and there are mosques out there who help them out in one way or another, so i see no problem in keeping an eye on them, atleast doing radiation checks for crying out loud.

Oridnery muslims do go to the musque believe it or not,so why should they have to go through this shit?

It is just sad to see that alot of people are ok with this whole idea.

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Originally posted by Erotic Buddha you islamo-fascist apologists continue to deny the fact that the ones who BOMBED THE WTC and BOMBED LONDON and COMMIT ACTS OF TERRORISM are all MUSLIMS

ok lets talk about "facts"

how many of those muslims where from Saudi Arabia again?
and why noone went after the Saudi's for answer?

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I say let the US government spy all they want on mosques and suspicious islamofascists living anywhere in the US

spying on mosques is like giving a big finger to the whole religion.Dont be surprised if they do attack again in the future is because of actions like these that make them committ such acts.

All this will do is that it will create more hate toward the west and more terrorism.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z That is no excuse to spy on EVERYONE!

I wasn�t advocating spying on everyone, just all of the Muslims and Islams since EVERY person who blows themselves up happens to be (get ready for this), exclusively and only in that category. It�s a reasonable excuse. If there are law abiding all-American people of Arab descent, then they should have NOTHING to worry about.

The government is looking for radiation. My god, how bad can it be if you are Muslim and you are being checked for radiation? Oh no. Discrimination. Let's make them feel better by checking everyone. You never know what those little Scandinavian girls are up to these days!

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If that subcategory was significantly large, then yes it could make some sense. I don't think below 0.1 % qualifies.

Good point. Let�s see if these people who bow themselves up belong to any other category:

Jews: 0%
Christians: 0%
Asians: 0%
Gays/Lesbians: 0%

I shall reiterate (sorry) that those who blow themselves up belong to only this category: Muslim/Islam. Should the U.S. waste time and polish their spying with some P.C. and spy on all of the almost 300,000,000 people living in the US? No, just those who are Muslim/Islam, which is the ONLY demographic these people fit.

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I don't see what your ignorant broad generalization of the Middle East has to do with this.

Ignorant broad generalization? What�that the Middle East hates the US, Jews, gays and women? You�re so right. How could I be so blind?

Only HALF of the Middle East hates women. The other half ARE the women who are slaved by the men.

Only ALL Middle Eastern countries except Israel (and Turkey if you count them) hates the Jews and imposes restrictions on their rights, communication and property ownerships.

Being gay is ILLEGAL in EVERY Middle Eastern country (except for Israel, Jordan and maybe Iraq). If you are caught being gay in Bahrain, Iran*, Kuwait, Lebanon, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia*, Syria, United Arab Emirates*, or Yemen*, you will be sent to jail, or killed*.

So no, my statement isn�t ignorant, but it sure does cater to a broad area full of barbaric people.

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I'm against the Goverment spying on ANYONE without enough compelling evidence and a proper warrant, Muslims or not.

This is where our opinions differ. I�m totally for it under certain circumstances.

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And?!?!?!?!?! So if it's a minority it's acceptable? Nonsense! Using your "they were from this group" logic, that would be the rational conclusion.

How can America spy on 50% of it�s population. It�s easier to narrow it down to a much smaller group that we ALL know terrorists come from.

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No, it does apply. Just becuase the terrorists happen to be Arabs doesn't mean that all Arab and Muslims should be suspects. Innocent until proved guilty (in this case, conspiring to plan an attack). 9-11 wasn't religiously motivated ok. It was a tragic result of far worse/more injustices suffered because of US foreign policy, so stop giving me this mindless bullshit about how Islam is the cause.

Ok, so whether or not it�s religiously motivated, these Arabs were �sleepers,� and acted like completely normal American people. So I think the US should spy on other people so maybe we can catch more sleepers. I�m all for spying. And I�m not giving you mindless bullshit about how Islam is the cause. I am saying (for the millionth time now), that everyone who has blown her or himself up belongs to the category of Muslim/Islam. I never said that the religion of Islam itself causes people to blow themselves up, so calm down.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Oridnery muslims do go to the musque believe it or not,so why should they have to go through this shit?

Muslims who blow themselves up ALSO go to the Mosques believe it or not. It's those morons that ruin it for the rest of them.

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Originally posted by Erotic Buddha you islamo-fascist apologists continue to deny the fact that the ones who BOMBED THE WTC and BOMBED LONDON and COMMIT ACTS OF TERRORISM are all MUSLIMS I say let the US government spy all they want on mosques and suspicious islamofascists living anywhere in the US

Bingo! And agreed.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer spying on mosques is like giving a big finger to the whole religion.Dont be surprised if they do attack again in the future is because of actions like these that make them committ such acts. All this will do is that it will create more hate toward the west and more terrorism.

If spying on Mosques leads to the escuse "I'm blowing myself up and attacking you because you looked for radiation in my Mosque," then I really don't want these people living in my country.

For YEARS upon YEARS homosexuals have been discriminated, beaten, murdered and denied basic and fundamental rights in the U.S. I've yet to see a homo say, "Look at how you treated me. This is why I'm attacking your society and blowing myself up now. I'm a terrorist because you what you've done to me."

I don't think terrorists are a result of just what the U.S., but a result of a set of rules in a specific culture that say it's okay to commit such acts or terrorism.

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